sub toss-up

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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    and there's another recent thread about batteries; a delco guy sez that JCI is better cause it's proven and optimized. opinions?

    yeah, ill make sure its done right, TUI
    and i assume that 1 battery = 1 of the other subs, yes?

    and would i notice the difference b/w a trutech and usamp for a sub?

    btw, i really appreciate the help, everyone, esp. cody
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    as far as batteries, that guy knows more than me obviously...lol
    and yes, 1 battery=1 other sub
    1 battery=2 momos though
    trutech and usamps, no...not for a sub
    and if you only go with one of those subs, you wont have anything to worry about it
    www.secondskinaudio.com
    guy there named ant, talk to him about what you need for sound deadening, hes a cool guy, and his **** is a lot cheaper (and better) than dynamat...or so ive heard
    -Cody
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    haha! i found a mistake on adire's site in the t/s parameters (yes, i actually read the footnotes; i have lots of free time). just thought you might want to know :).

    i checked out second skin, and it sounds like good stuff. i'll see if i can get my hands on some (or ill get the sample kit to compare with the dynamat i've got).
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    wow... i spent the day going to a bunch of different audio stores and asking what their best stuff was. quite a few said kicker L5's were 'great'. i dont think i'll be going back to any of those. not a single one had heard of adire or eD, opinions on diamond varied widely, and the one that i remembered to ask about image dynamics didnt know enough about them to form an opinion. on eD, every dealer said that flat is bad. like everyone else here has been trying to convince me (you'd think i'd learn). as a humorous note, the first shop i went to was showing off a car out front - it had both doors completely full of 5-1/4 speakers, and the trunk was filled with racks upon racks of amps. it was ridiculously loud, but i couldnt tell whether they were playing 50 or mozart, thats how bad it sounded :p

    so, yeah, MTXMAN at the beginning was right; each shop really pushed what they had and each was quite vague on those products they didn't carry.

    however, while i didnt get to listen to any of the subs on my list :(, i did hear eclipse's bottom line, the black ones. if the aluminiums are better than that, i've been sold on em. they were amazingly tight, and that was in a slot-port box. acording to that shop, the titanium series is just too expensive for not nearly enough benefit. the aluminiums should be plenty, if that's what i decide upon.

    the dealer that had those happened to be the only one i actually liked out of the 6 i visited. it also happened to be the place the local polk rep is getting his prototype system put in. amazingly, it also happens to be the place half of the cleveland browns go to for their installs. and it's the place i went for mine, to boot (without knowing any of this beforehand). apparently, they have a good rep around cleveland :).

    what do you think of my day trip? did i do okay?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    ED is not a very well known company
    anyone who has good knowledge about recent audio has heard of adire
    image dynamics is probably a little better known though
    i heard a flat PPI once, i didnt care too much for the sound...
    but i guess thats a personal preference
    the titanium series from eclipse is comparable to the ID max, the Adire Brahma, RE ****, JL w7...up there with the big boys
    i havent checked out their prices lately, but they used to be a bit overpriced IMO
    but if you can get them for cheap then awesome
    the most important thing is what YOU think
    if you like it, then get em
    just b/c someone else thinks this is a better sub, doesnt mean you will think the same
    car audio shops are very ignorant when it comes to what they dont sell
    and some places like best buy are ignorant anyway..they just tell you to buy the RF subs "because they have a chrome center"
    sounds like a productive day
    its good for people to have a field day like that and try to get a taste for everything...
    -Cody
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    yeah, despite the profound lack of information most people had, it was kinda fun (in a slightly masochistic way)

    yeah, i think that i'll go with the aluminium series. im gonna call eclipse tomorrow (man, their number took for freaking ever to find) and get their msrp for the various lines, but i think the titanium 12 retails for like 1200.

    while the whole thread has ended up kind of wasted, i truly thank you for your help and patience, cody. i know ive said it a couple times, but this'll be the last. okey, end of sermon...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    no prob, i love talking about this stuff...learn more about it everyday
    -Cody
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2004
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    aluminums are nice subs -- take about the same rms as the momo ... get about as loud too, but the sound quality is a bit edged over the momo as well as build quality. Fujitsu = Eclipse subs. go figure...

    anywho -- they're not cheap tho hoss... you might spend $300 a pop or so for each aluminum 12". are they worth it? i dunno... its too late at night for me to think that might.

    the titaniums are only "worth it" if you want to give yourself spontaneous bowel movements and be knocked into a coma on occasion. nice sub but very very very very loud, and requiring very very very large amounts of power.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    that's only $30 more than the momo 12; and i prefer my bowel movements to be voluntary, thank you very much. so as soon as i get the cash, 2 aluminium 10s it is.

    what should i power them with? the competent shops i talked to agreed that usamps is good, but since none of them dealt usamps, that's all they had to say about that. are they on par with the aluminiums, or is there something that will give me the same response for less cash? naturally, i'll throw down for the usamps if they'll make a noticable difference.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    are you planning on amping your components as well?
    if so, id get the USAmps tube amp for them
    in which case you WILL hear a very noticeable difference
    and if you want to keep all your amps looking the same, go with the USAmps for your subs as well
    if not, id go with hifonics
    if i could "redo" my system, i would do hifonics amps instead of my fosgates
    BUT
    if youre willing to wait, RF's new power line is coming out sometime soon, and I think theyll do VERY well for you
    going on what ive heard, id take the new power line over hifonics hands down
    im not sure when they come out though...
    -Cody
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2004
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    cadance, ppi, xtant, and soundstream are all great amps.

    if you're on a budget and want high power that'll last... mtx is always there... given the chance i'd look at soundstream for a "not themost expensive thing on earth but certainly a cut above the average **** when it comes to quality of sound". usamps really isn't that expensive when you buy them online/ebay new in box... watt for watt they come out like 20-30% more expensive than mtx.. which aint bad... i mean you can do a usamps 1000(x) for like 400 bucks - 500 bucks... the 81000D / 1501D is like 300 -350 ... that's not bad.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    yeah, my mm6s have a 300.2 to em. so anyways, i just now bothered to look at the settings on my amp (the shop had sealed it shut and i finally got their go-ahead to break the seals; they sed the warranty would be void if i did it without their permission; whatever), and i had a personal epiphany.

    here's me, thinking the momos are completely midrange, when i discover that the stupid shop set the crossover at 180 Hz! so i turned it down to 85; MUCHO better. haven't turned it up yet, i wanted to wait and ask here to make sure i wont cook them at 85. i turned the gain down a tad just to be safe, but it hurts above half volume anyways, so that shouldnt be an issue.

    will i break these things pushing that at 85Hz+? once i get my subs set up, i'll probably get a tube amp for the comps, but that's further down the road than i like to consider (live for the moment, man!).

    on an entirely different note, eclipse lists a 'continuous' power rating and a 'music' power rating for their drivers. is 'music' another name for 'max' or is 'continuous' another name for 'sine wave/test tone'?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    I have mine crossed over at 50Hzand the tweeter distorts before the woofer does. Someday I'm going to cross em over lower. Usually, in a car, you want them crossed over pretty low. Why? Because since your subs are in the back, you need some bass up front so the soundstage blends properly. As far as music vs. continuous. If the music rating is lower than the continuous rating, then I would say the music rating is how little watts you can put to them and still get full output, continuous is the thermal rating, meaning thats the top RMS you can put to it, if you put much more, itll fry...but i really dont know, id email/call eclipse
    if the music rating is higher than the rms rating...then i really have no idea
    -Cody
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    the phone number for eclipse - found in the fine print at the end of their downloadable catalog, on the back page - is just an automated service that gives you the number for the closest dealer. there's no email either; nothing at all. strange, no?

    music vs. continuous: as far as i've been able to discern, the music power is roughly equivalent to max power; maybe a little less.

    the usa-2000x, 500W x 2 Ch. @ 4 Ohms, will drive two aluminiums, as will the usa-1000-not-x, 1000W x 1 Ch. @ 2 Ohms. clearly, the 1000 will be cheaper, but will it sound better? i've heard that as the impedance presented to the amp goes down, so does damping and slew rate. is this true, and if it is, will it be worth it to spring for the 2000x?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    its true, but theyre such good amps, i doubt youll be able to hear the difference
    id go with the 1000
    does sounddomain sell eclipse?
    if so, just give them a call...tell them youre planning on buying them later from them when u get the money...even if you arent
    then just buy youre RCA from them so you wont feel bad...or not...whatever
    lol
    -Cody
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    and btw, 80-85 is a great crossover point
    if you never play rap or really bassy songs then 50 is ok...i have a crossover on my HU that i change when i play songs with a lot of bass so it wont mess up my comps...i plan on keeping them for a while...lol
    -Cody
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    i just checked; there's an xover on my hu too, but i listen to too wide a variety of music to change it constantly. i'll just keep it at 85; its such a massive change that it'll keep me happy till my subs.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • ksunate
    ksunate Posts: 1
    edited March 2004
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    im new to the forums but thought i would throw my hat in the ring on this one.

    One brand not really mentioned in these posts in JL Audio. Now I know alot of people are very anti-jl but they make good stuff. Great high end subs. I have all JL Audio in my truck and it blows everyone else away. I have two 12 -w7s and they rock but for someone that doesnt want to spend that much I used to have some w6's and some w3s before that and for e decent load they put out some nice nice bass and very good SQ if you set them up right. I am biased though. I have two JL 1000W amps hooked up to my w7's and they are amazing. Almost overkill but they rock.
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    i have been looking at the w7's, but with a relative lack of opinions on them - both here and at shops in my area - ive been forced to strike them from my list. the eclipses that i listened to were just so clean that i felt i had to have them. if only someone had w7's on display...

    as a side note, jl grabbed a lot of autosound's grand prix awards. i dont know how prestigious they are, but there's something to be said for that.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    dont get me wrong, JL makes DAMN good stuff
    they have stuff that Polk will never be able to compete with (power handling wise, not SQ)
    but it is WAY overpriced
    i probably would not pay more than 300 for a w7, id get a image dynamics max...
    you can get an adire brahma or resonant engineering **** for A LOT cheaper and sound better, and they both handle 1600watts rms, im not sure what the w7 handles, but i doubt its over that
    if you can get a 12w7 for about $330ish, then it would be a good deal, if you cant, get a brahma, youd probably be more happy with it anyway
    -Cody
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    hey, i just heard about alpine's new type-x's. 1000W RMS, according to the brochure - its not on their site yet. how do you think would one of these compare to 2 aluminiums? obviously, no one's got any great experience with these yet, but just going off alpine's rep and such...

    and alpine's got a contender for the USA-1000-not-X, the MRD-M1000. the alpine retails for $900; how would it compare to the usamp, which can be had for $610 from http://www.speedsound.com?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2004
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    the 12" w7 handles 750 rms .. the 13.5" w7 handles 1,000 rms... the brahma will take up around 1500 - 1750 wrms... the max will do 1400-1500 ... both the brahma and hte max are cheaper and constructed better than the w7. and in light of our new forum admonitions... i'll just end my post here.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2004
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    ... oh and by the way--- my IDmax 12's and my 81000D amps are on sale right now -- make an offer ??? condition = well cared for, bout a year old, and friggin amazingly pimp. why selling = bought a standard cab pickup and i really do think i'll loose my hearing with two maxes in an S-cab truck.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    hehe... i would take you up on your offer, with the exception of two things - firstly, i can't fit a 12 in my trunk, and secondly, i'm broke :p.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • sntnsupermen131
    sntnsupermen131 Posts: 1,831
    edited March 2004
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    i want 2 10" brahmas damn it
    just thought id throw that in...
    -Cody
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    apparently you don't like being able to hear either :)
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited March 2004
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    hearing is overrated
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited March 2004
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    and neo..you signature reminds me of a quote I once heard
    "Procrastination is like masturbation, it feels good for a while, but in the end you're just f*cking yourself"
    Though I'd share that
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2004
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    hehe...

    hey cody, why'd u change ur sn?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited March 2004
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    got tired of the old one...
    i also used it for my email/AIM a long time ago before I changed those...so I thought it was time for a change:)
    it was about 5 years old...maybe a little less than that
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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