Bass testing
EndersShadow
Posts: 17,687
So I think I need to further tweak my setup as I just don't get as much bass outta my system as I think its capable of. I have run Audyseey, but I want to do some testing on my own to see whats going on from the listening chair.
Was wondering what you guys do to dial in your bass? I cant really move the sub much from its location in the front right corner (which should be HELPING me, not hurting me)
Frequency sweeps (if so what program/mp3 files do you use), spike the sub (I have it on a Auralex Gamma right now), etc.
Before you ask, I have the LSi 15's crossed @ 50hz, the PSW125 crossed @ 80hz.
Was wondering what you guys do to dial in your bass? I cant really move the sub much from its location in the front right corner (which should be HELPING me, not hurting me)
Frequency sweeps (if so what program/mp3 files do you use), spike the sub (I have it on a Auralex Gamma right now), etc.
Before you ask, I have the LSi 15's crossed @ 50hz, the PSW125 crossed @ 80hz.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Post edited by EndersShadow on
Comments
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I like to run sweeps and see where things are happening as that is the only way to really truly know- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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What do you use to run those sweeps? MP3 files burned on a disc, Computer program connected to AVR, etc?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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Room eq wizard aka REW, hometheatershack dot com has it for free. Has a learning curve requires rs analog spl meter, pc sound card with true mic in, some cables and time but well worth it and rewarding.
The site is very helpful and has a rich solution search and well documented.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
Oh yeah avr spkr calibration for subs are useless until you have your lfe as flat as possible.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
I have something from a few years ago - Gomer Test tones + an excel charts with correction data for a radioshack meter. Works good and is cheap- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Well my AVR is Adyseey 2EQ which doesnt factor the sub in besides knowing its there. Hence my wanting to do some testing myself to see what I might be able to tweak out of it.
REW requires too much knowledge for me right now and also more stuff that I dont own lol."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
If you are serious about learning it you can be up and running in less than 2 hours. You can borrow the rest.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
EndersShadow wrote: »Well my AVR is Adyseey 2EQ which doesnt factor the sub in besides knowing its there. Hence my wanting to do some testing myself to see what I might be able to tweak out of it.
REW requires too much knowledge for me right now and also more stuff that I dont own lol.
If you want, we could review REW while you are up here for the Demo. I have all the gear necessary to run the sweeps, including a fully calibrated measurement mic
Calibrated to 5 Hz!!!!
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
dcmartinpc wrote: »If you want, we could review REW while you are up here for the Demo. I have all the gear necessary to run the sweeps, including a fully calibrated measurement mic Calibrated to 5 Hz!!!!
Don
What mic Don? Glad to see someone else that uses REW.
The rs analog has a calc file at hts and the meter is good for lfe but not full frequent sweeps.
I am willing to help to, hts is very helpful aswell but with the online guide you don't really need a lot of help.
I usenthe turtle beach external USB sound card.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
dc - 5hz is NUTS!
ES - I'm still mentally pushing for you to to get that ED thats close to you. I've already said I don't know much about the 125, but spec vs. spec, the ED will blow yours out of the water.
I run mine 1db hot after MACC, and did the same with my Onkyo. I agree your placement should help it, is it boomy? I've got mine on a DIY riser and spiked, it really helped with the rattles in the room, and may have tightened it up a bit, but with a 75lb sub, I wasn't going to spend ANY time A/Bing. I don't have a computer that will fit the REW requirements, so I've long forgotten about that, I'm just keeping an eye out for a SMS-1. When I can afford it. -
What mic Don? Glad to see someone else that uses REW.
The rs analog has a calc file at hts and the meter is good for lfe but not full frequent sweeps.
I am willing to help to, hts is very helpful aswell but with the online guide you don't really need a lot of help.
I usenthe turtle beach external USB sound card.
I have a Behringer ECM8000 professionally calibrated by Cross Spectrum Labs. I use the Tascam US-144MKII as my audio interface. Love it!
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
dcmartinpc wrote: »i have a behringer ecm8000 professionally calibrated by cross spectrum labs. I use the tascam us-144mkii as my audio interface. Love it!
Don
nice!Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
I use this mostly for speaker building, but I should test my HT response with it.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-790"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
dc - 5hz is NUTS!
ES - I'm still mentally pushing for you to to get that ED thats close to you. I've already said I don't know much about the 125, but spec vs. spec, the ED will blow yours out of the water.
I run mine 1db hot after MACC, and did the same with my Onkyo. I agree your placement should help it, is it boomy? I've got mine on a DIY riser and spiked, it really helped with the rattles in the room, and may have tightened it up a bit, but with a 75lb sub, I wasn't going to spend ANY time A/Bing. I don't have a computer that will fit the REW requirements, so I've long forgotten about that, I'm just keeping an eye out for a SMS-1. When I can afford it.
Pc is cheaper than SMS.
My 5 year old Dell laptop worked just fine on xp.
I think REW scares people but once shown it is quiet easy and fast to do Room measurements.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
Pc is cheaper than SMS.
My 5 year old Dell laptop worked just fine on xp.
I think REW scares people but once shown it is quiet easy and fast to do Room measurements.
Hm... Maybe I need to go re-read some things, from what I understood the sound card in most laptops wouldn't work for this application, I very well could be wrong. I'll be pissed though, that'll be the first time ever.
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Hm... Maybe I need to go re-read some things, from what I understood the sound card in most laptops wouldn't work for this application, I very well could be wrong. I'll be pissed though, that'll be the first time ever.
That is true but I use a 20 dollar turtle beach external USB sound card.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
Hm... Maybe I need to go re-read some things, from what I understood the sound card in most laptops wouldn't work for this application, I very well could be wrong. I'll be pissed though, that'll be the first time ever.
The sound card you are correct on, sort of. Typically using an external audio interface is the best, but you can do some basic measurements with a Radio Shack meter and the laptops built in sound card. REW does measurements to help with poor sound cards. You can spend more money and build out an external rig, but it isn't %100 necessary.
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
That is true but I use a 20 dollar turtle beach external USB sound card.
Bingo!
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
I use this mostly for speaker building, but I should test my HT response with it.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-790
That would be perfect for perfoming room measurements! I looked at it actually, but stuck with REW. It just works so well...
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
Hmmm... I need a phone conversation about all this with one of you guys in the near future.
F it, lets make this thread about me!
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Hmmm... I need a phone conversation about all this with one of you guys in the near future.
F it, lets make this thread about me!
Start a thread and after reading the manual 3 times then take a measurement then ask question.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
dcmartinpc wrote: »If you want, we could review REW while you are up here for the Demo. I have all the gear necessary to run the sweeps, including a fully calibrated measurement mic Calibrated to 5 Hz!!!!
Don
That would be awesome if we could. Its much easier to learn when someone's there to show you in personES - I'm still mentally pushing for you to to get that ED thats close to you. I've already said I don't know much about the 125, but spec vs. spec, the ED will blow yours out of the water.
Yeah we will see about the Ed sub. Got some thinking to do."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
The PSW125 is definitely holding you back IMO- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »The PSW125 is definitely holding you back IMO
Yeah, but my thought was the LSi 15's should be helping a little bit if nothing else.
I am waiting to purchase a couple monster subs, just not sure when I will. They are second on my upgrade list. First is a better amp (Sunfire 450x5 or 400x7)."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »Yeah, but my thought was the LSi 15's should be helping a little bit if nothing else.
I am waiting to purchase a couple monster subs, just not sure when I will. They are second on my upgrade list. First is a better amp (Sunfire 450x5 or 400x7).
You know, I just had a thought. I wonder if you might be having phase issues. The LSi15 are very capable in the lower registers. Have you tried turning the sub off to see what happens? And vice versa, unhook the LSi15s and run just the sub. There might be some cancellation happening at the overlap in the crossover frequencies... I wonder...
You could also raise the crossover on the 15s to 80 Hz, see what it does. Basically, running with no crossover overlap. Worth a shot.
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
dcmartinpc wrote: »You know, I just had a thought. I wonder if you might be having phase issues. The LSi15 are very capable in the lower registers. Have you tried turning the sub off to see what happens? And vice versa, unhook the LSi15s and run just the sub. There might be some cancellation happening at the overlap in the crossover frequencies... I wonder...
Don
Thats exactly why I want to run sweeps. I am wondering if I might be having cancellation, if the subs position puts my main listening positions in a bass null, etc.
There is also a chance (much lower I think though) that the movies I am watching just dont have that much bass. I think this is most likely NOT the case, but hence wanting to run sweeps to see how the mains and sub are interacting throughout the room.
I know most of the TV we watch doesnt have that much low hz stuff so I cant use that as a judge.dcmartinpc wrote: »You could also raise the crossover on the 15s to 80 Hz, see what it does. Basically, running with no crossover overlap. Worth a shot.
I have had the mains @ 80hz (LSiC @100) and there just isn't that much bass even w/ the sub @ 1/2 gain. Even when I run Adyseey its just not that loud when it calibrates the sub. Hence me thinking it might be a phase, or null issue.
Hell even when the neighbors came over once because they said the bass was shaking their walls, it wasn't that loud. After that time is when I got the sub isolation platform.
Sub-floor is carpet on slab and the wall behind the sub is a 2x4 wall on my side, cinder block backside and then another 2x4 wall on the other side in my neighbors apartments."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I've been playing with my subs trying to get the best out of them and my mains. I found by setting my Elite to PLUS for the subs crossed @ 80hz, my A9's run full range and subs run anything below 80hz. However, I had to reverse the phase in the subs to hear them BOTH working and not cancel one another out.
However... two 10" powered Velodyne's are too small to keep up to those A9's. -
So after reading the manual I think I might have found the problem. I believe that by setting the xover for the 15's to 50 I am letting them handle ALL bass down to 50 hz and then the PSW125 ONLY from 50 hz down (even thought its crossover is set @ 80hz).
I think I need to turn on the double bass feature (which requires me to set my mains at full range). I then would get Full Range signal to the 15's with the PSW125 ONLY helping with bass below 80hz.
Going to try that tomorrow and see what happens. And what better movie to try it with than the LOTR collectors edition blu-ray set "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »So after reading the manual I think I might have found the problem. I believe that by setting the xover for the 15's to 50 I am letting them handle ALL bass down to 50 hz and then the PSW125 ONLY from 50 hz down (even thought its crossover is set @ 80hz).
I think I need to turn on the double bass feature (which requires me to set my mains at full range). I then would get Full Range signal to the 15's with the PSW125 ONLY helping with bass below 80hz.
Going to try that tomorrow and see what happens. And what better movie to try it with than the LOTR collectors edition blu-ray set
I didn't realize that was how you had it set! Yes, Double Bass, or whatever the feature is called, is exactly what you want. The crossover point set at the receiver takes precedence over the one on the sub since it is first in the chain. I thought you had more granular control over your crossover points
I am getting to used to external crossovers! Anyways, set your mains to full range, and turn on Double Bass, and it will make a difference. Is it going to be the bass you are looking for? Maybe not, but it should be an improvement!
Good Luck!
One other thing, I know it is kind of a kid movie, but How To Train Your Dragon has some CRAZY low bass... My windows flex on that one!
DonLiving Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)
Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)
Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9 -
dcmartinpc wrote: »I didn't realize that was how you had it set! Yes, Double Bass, or whatever the feature is called, is exactly what you want. The crossover point set at the receiver takes precedence over the one on the sub since it is first in the chain. I thought you had more granular control over your crossover points I am getting to used to external crossovers! Anyways, set your mains to full range, and turn on Double Bass, and it will make a difference.
Yeah I might pull down the upstairs computer to do some REW testing and throw up some graphs for input. I do have a RatShack SPL meter and I believe all the cables needed.
Going to be using this picture to connect everything.dcmartinpc wrote: »Is it going to be the bass you are looking for? Maybe not, but it should be an improvement!
I am well aware its not going to be the bass I want, but any improvement would be appreciated right now, and if nothing else I will see frequency response graphs for everything.
Just need to figure out where to put the dogs while its testing so they dont skew numbers with barking lol....."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
