Pioneer Elite SC-35 + Adcom + RTi A9= Great!

SRTer · August 2011

mantis wrote: »

I'd like to hear your comments vs the amp and ICe power driving your Rtia9's. I have driven the Rtia7's and RTia9's with SC-05 and SC-07 receivers with stellar results. I have run full 7.1 RTIa series speakers using those 7 and 9's as mains and the system really kicked ****. Pay attention to dynamics when you add your given amp for the mains. You might be surprised how close it really is.

Ill be waiting on your comments after a complete shootout.

Have fun

It is official, the Adcom GFA 555II is in and is running well. I have spent most of the afternoon running the MCACC in symmetry mode, adjusting the EQ, playing music, and playing Clash of the Titans.

The Adcom is functioning well. Only one complaint, there is no 12 volt trigger but that is it.

The Adcom GFA 555II seems to be on the neutral to warm side of coloration. I decieded to pick up some audio cables and a new set of speaker wires. I didn't buy anything special, so don't beat me up.

I bought some Audioquest Sidewinder 2 meter cables to connect the SC-35 to the Adcom. I was running some Monster XP cable but I picked up some the Monster M series MCX-2S. I know some of you are cringing right now. I'm just not ready to buy some of the nicer cables out there yet. Nevertheless, these were better and had built-in banana ends.

Well, the answer to the question (do adding a amp to the ICE powered SC's do any real benifit for HT) for people who are not into separate amplification yet is...

YES!! It sure does.

In my case, I added the Adcom GFA 555ii, 2 channel amp which is 200 watts @ 8 ohms. There is a review for this amp on Stereophile.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/adcom-gfa-555-power-amplifier-john-atkinson-1990

Anyway, the Adcom added a refinement to the bass during 2 channel music playback with lossless apple tracks from my iPhone 4 with SC-35 set to Direct mode.

I played the RTi A9's or bass heavy R&B at 0dB on the SC-35. I never saw the distortion warning light turn on, nor did the Adcom 555ii ever seem to get hot. It was barely warm. Without a doubt, there was more bass and mid bass added to the RTi A9's. It seemed as if their was bit more control of the three 7 inch woofers. Best I can describe it that the bass is firmer.

As for as home theater, the same benefit that I received in the bass and mid bass was evident in the Clash of Titans movies. Running the RTi A9's and A7's full range is really producing some sweet vibrations in my room. They are playing nice and low.

I'm really sure that the Pioneer Elite SC-35 is putting more power on the remaining RTi A7's rears and CSi A6 center. The center channel seem so much strong and full bodied in this configuration. I had to look at the MCACC to mack sure the Pio had not given the center channel an extra boost. Upon inspection, the new calibration had the center channel trim lower than my old cal which I saved in position 1 for review vs the new calibration.

It seems the whole system has been stiffened because of powering the RTi A9's separately and leaving only three speakers for the SC-35 to spread it's power among.

Now, is the difference worth the extra money and trouble to use a separate amp with the SC ICE amp AVR's? In most people cases, I would say no. You will get all the bang and boom you need from a good powered sub.

For people who use RTi A9's in stereo, they will gain a true increase in overall performance which will be noticed in all modes when using a high quality and high current amp.

I wouldn't recommend anything less than 200 watts in the Adcom because there was a difference but it would be mostlikely diminished if the Adcom or similar amp is equal or less in power to the SC models.

I only have one more question in my mind. What would a more powerful Adcom sound like?

I think the next step is 300 watts or more from Adcom.

tonyb · August 2011

Personally, I'm glad your diggin' the Adcom, but I would move up the chain if I was you. Really want to hear your speakers ? Add some tube goodness to your system. Also, don't get so hung up on watts, it's quality,not quantity that counts. Enjoy the tunes bro, and the journey.

SRTer · August 2011

tonyb wrote: »

Personally, I'm glad your diggin' the Adcom, but I would move up the chain if I was you. Really want to hear your speakers ? Add some tube goodness to your system. Also, don't get so hung up on watts, it's quality,not quantity that counts. Enjoy the tunes bro, and the journey.

What is your recommendation when you say quality? What kind of specs should I look in to? What type of money spent? Specific names of companies please.

Also, can you recommend material to read to help my understanding?

angelsfann02 · August 2011

Wow! You seriously had the avr volume down to 0db's? I am surprised the speakers didnt blow. That would be murder in my case. I rarely get my volume lower than -28db's.
I agree with Xcapri, the Adcom gfa-5802 is no slouch.

SRTer · August 2011

angelsfann02 wrote: »

Wow! You seriously had the avr volume down to 0db's? I am surprised the speakers didnt blow. That would be murder in my case. I rarely get my volume lower than -28db's.
I agree with Xcapri, the Adcom gfa-5802 is no slouch.

I had to know, if 0dB is reference, I want to be able to play right up there without any problems.

In my case, the Pioneer MCACC had made my left RTi A9 reference at -4.0dB. So the speakers are all trimmed down a bit.

I would imagine that all speakers would be louder if this setting was placed at 0.0dB instead of -4.0dB.

The sound at 0.0dB wasn't silky smooth on all material, but it was controlled.

mantis · August 2011

Nice man , nice review. Adcom amps in history have been warm and powerful.
The reason the Front left is at -04db is because the Rtia9's are very efficient and play very loud.
The Sidewinder IC's are very very nice especially for the money. I have used them with impressive results.
Nothing wrong with Monstercable MCX series speaker wires , I have also used them and they sound pretty damn good. Nicely built and you can change the ends with ease. I like that about Monster's terminations.

Enjoy your system.

cfrizz · August 2011

Nice reveiw SRT. Now you know and have heard for yourself what more power can do to benefit your system. Now just sit back and enjoy it for a while.

SRTer · August 2011

mantis wrote: »

Nice man , nice review. Adcom amps in history have been warm and powerful.
The reason the Front left is at -04db is because the Rtia9's are very efficient and play very loud.
The Sidewinder IC's are very very nice especially for the money. I have used them with impressive results.
Nothing wrong with Monstercable MCX series speaker wires , I have also used them and they sound pretty damn good. Nicely built and you can change the ends with ease. I like that about Monster's terminations.

Enjoy your system.

I was really worried about the adding external amplification with the RTi A series because these speakers are decidedly bright as far as I'm concerned. I really thought I would have to take some of the treble out of the EQ as I had done with running just the Pio Elite SC-35 after the auto calibration. This time, the MCACC took out some treble and I didn't feel the need to take out more after than.

It seems that all the parts are playing well together.

It seems like the name Monster has been the source of sore displeasure and resentment by so many. I didn't even wait to share that I had the 350 pound fat girl over my house all night.

Thank you and Cfrizz for the nice words about my review.

cfrizz wrote: »

Nice reveiw SRT. Now you know and have heard for yourself what more power can do to benefit your system. Now just sit back and enjoy it for a while.

.

I don't know if that is possible for I have one more test I would like to do today. I really want to see if my neighbor will bring over his Emotiva XPA-2. Then, I can see if the EMO is for real. With so many fans and negative press on certain forums. I would like to put the situation to test and to rest in my mind.

danz1906 · August 2011

Nice system..............Enjoy!

codyc1ark · August 2011

SRTer- Nice write up! I just got my first external amp, an Adcom 2535, 90w x2, 200w x1, I'm running a SC-25 and LSi9's/C. My center has become much 'bigger', and I can't believe the difference in my 9's for HT and music. This impressed me so much that I now have a GFA-7000 on the way, I can't wait to see what the LSi9's do with 200 watts! Our results sound similar, I also feel that my surrounds are performing a bit stronger now that the Pio isn't doing all of the work. I hate though having this nice ICE powered avr sitting around only powering surrounds.

mantis · August 2011

Most of the Sonic signature comes from the preamp. That doesn't change by adding a amp. What does change is the Sonic signature of the amp. Some will argue that all amps sound the same, I'm not in that camp as I have heard the same preamp with different amps and had different experiences. In my opinion all amps should sound exactly the same , so should preamps and speakers. I really don't want my replay system adding or taking away anything from the recording. This is a perfect world that I don't live in.
Now that the Adcom amp has clearly benefited your system , I'm wondering what a mono block and another stereo Adcom could do for the rest of the package , think about that for a while.

SRTer · August 2011

codyc1ark wrote: »

SRTer- Nice write up! I just got my first external amp, an Adcom 2535, 90w x2, 200w x1, I'm running a SC-25 and LSi9's/C. My center has become much 'bigger', and I can't believe the difference in my 9's for HT and music. This impressed me so much that I now have a GFA-7000 on the way, I can't wait to see what the LSi9's do with 200 watts! Our results sound similar, I also feel that my surrounds are performing a bit stronger now that the Pio isn't doing all of the work. I hate though having this nice ICE powered avr sitting around only powering surrounds.

I was crazy man. It seems like the Pio SC's dump the power right on the center, little more than the rear RTi A7's. I really couldn't understand it and still don't. I check the setting against my old setting in the MCACC.

I know the CSi A6 center channel can take 200 watts according to it's specs, so all I can think is that the SC-35 is placing nearly a 140-150 watts on the center.

The SC-37/35 can make 135 watt on all channels in 5 channel mode. It was tested to make 152 watt in 2 channel mode. Therefore, it logical to assume that more power is available in 3 channel mode. Maybe 140-144 watts is there now with plenty reserves of clean current. Whatever the situation, it's magnificent!

http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-37-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

engtaz · August 2011

Nice review. Thanks

SRTer · August 2011

mantis wrote: »

Most of the Sonic signature comes from the preamp. That doesn't change by adding a amp. What does change is the Sonic signature of the amp. Some will argue that all amps sound the same, I'm not in that camp as I have heard the same preamp with different amps and had different experiences. In my opinion all amps should sound exactly the same , so should preamps and speakers. I really don't want my replay system adding or taking away anything from the recording. This is a perfect world that I don't live in.
Now that the Adcom amp has clearly benefited your system , I'm wondering what a mono block and another stereo Adcom could do for the rest of the package , think about that for a while.

Well, i'm thinking of another 2 channel with a bit more power because next year will be the year of the 2 channel for me. A dedicated setup which the RTi A series ICE and Adcom HT will be the testing bed for all the new items.

Slowly but surely, it going to happen.

I want a 6 ohm tower speaker for this setup.

SRTer · August 2011

Double post

Oldfatdogs · August 2011

I didn't even wait to share that I had the 350 pound fat girl over my house all night.

Nice review but,I want to know more about the fat girl.:biggrin:

cnh · August 2011

Congrats on the Adcom. Could you do better...well, one can always do 'better', even if they're running a 50K tube amp! lol But that's not me.

Personally, I find the my Adcom GFA-555 and my LSI-7s are a near perfect match. People complain about the laid back character of LSIs but with an Adcom powering those, let me tell you, that they are anything but laid back. It's one of those synergistic moments--at least for me. It might be a bit bright for RTI towers but it's all in your take and on your ears!

Enjoy.

cnh

Drenis · August 2011

Awesome review. The outcome was night and day for me as well when I picked up my Carver. I've certainly never heard music so clean, crisp and loud. So loud that when pushed to 0db, it's just too loud if constantly exposed... and the Carver wasn't even sweating yet... Simply awesome how the RTi A9's sound so much better with a separate amp.

SRTer · August 2011

Oldfatdogs wrote: »

Nice review but,I want to know more about the fat girl.:biggrin:

No fat girl, just saying that I did know which is really worst to say on the forum. It was a joke.

I'm a big boy myself, so we can both be big are there will be problems.

SRTer · August 2011

Oldfatdogs wrote: »

Nice review but,I want to know more about the fat girl.:biggrin:

Further review of the new Adcom GFA-555ii with the SC-35 and RTi A9's.

The music is fuller at low background music levels. That is really nice. You can hear the strings with more detail down low.

Oldfatdogs · August 2011

I'm a big boy myself

Me too, I have always been a certified chubby chaser.

mantis · August 2011

I got a Bryston St laying around I'm gonna test drive with my system just for music.

gfong · August 2011

Nice review, nice system.

Tungx2 · August 2011

please get your neighbor to bring over the xpa-2 !

It'll really make my day when I read your updated review ^^

SRTer · August 2011

Tungx2 wrote: »

please get your neighbor to bring over the xpa-2 !
M

It'll really make my day when I read your updated review ^^

Talked to him yesterday. He will bring that heavy piece of machinery over to my house. He said it's 90 pounds. I'm sure that there is something to the 40 more pounds of his amplifier verses mine.

I have spent the last few days listening to tune the EQ to my liking in 2 channel music. I have done all the auto tuning for the HT setup up.

I'm very impressed at the sound for 2 channel on the RTi A9's. So I think that more power will make the lower end frequencies even better.

I'm a little bit apprehensive about the Emotiva products due to some of the negative press it has recieved here. Nevertheless, I'm more into testing things for myself without spending money. So this time, I'm in luck.

If I like the extra power of the Emotiva XPA-2, I still might not buy one. I might just get something with similar specs in a Adcom, Parasound, or Wyred 4 Sound.

Drenis · August 2011

Do you use the EQ integrated with the Pioneer?

SRTer · August 2011

Drenis wrote: »

Do you use the EQ integrated with the Pioneer?

The Pioneer Elite has a audio program called MCACC which is has a built-in EQ. When you do the auto-calibration with the mic, the MCACC sets a EQ for all speakers to create a flat response from the speakers in the room you are tuning it in.

For HT surround sound, I let the MCACC do everything. For 2 channel music, I use the auto-calibration EQ and then adjust it for a sound that I like while in the DIRECT mode which remove all other processing other than the EQ and distance measurement.

Drenis · August 2011

I'm familiar with MCACC... I was curious if you used it.

perhaps I need to do some more research because I have 2 cons to this program.

1. I absolutely HATE the EQ is automatically calibrates for the speakers. I lose a lot of sound. So I turn EQ, Standing wave off and turn on to pull all source audio (Sorry I forget the options name). Sound is rich and full. All flat with no EQ.

2. Whenever I access MCACC, It's impossible to adjust EQ as my input sound is via HDMI and the VSX-23 in no way allows pass-through so I'm SOL for EQ adjusting. I'm betting running dedicated TOSHLINK to receiver for music would solve this and allow adjustments.

Now, with that... I could be doing setups wrong. I've spent maybe a solid hour and a half with the program but feel maybe I need to explore more options because you're not the first person I've read who was happy with their results.

Edit: I had a Technics digital EQ I bought off ebay to use with my old receiver. When I found out that I couldn't utilize it and upgraded, I was still SOL. It's as if your limited to internal EQ's now a days which don't seem very user friendly for adjustments.

tonyb · August 2011

You can adjust all EQ settings manually, then save those settings for each input.

SRTer · August 2011

Drenis wrote: »

2. Whenever I access MCACC, It's impossible to adjust EQ as my input sound is via HDMI and the VSX-23 in no way allows pass-through so I'm SOL for EQ adjusting. I'm betting running dedicated TOSHLINK to receiver for music would solve this and allow adjustments.

Now, with that... I could be doing setups wrong. I've spent maybe a solid hour and a half with the program but feel maybe I need to explore more options because you're not the first person I've read who was happy with their results.

As for a listening to your audio and adjusting the EQ at the same time, this will not happen with a Toshlink or HDMI. There is no way to do that period. Yes, that sucks big time.

My method is that I listen to my speakers on different songs after hearing on many audio setup and headphones. I know what they should sound like.

I adjust the sound after listening to the PRUR DIRECT mode which has not sound processing in it period. Then in normally lower the ferquencies in the trebal ranges because the RTi A speakers are bright naturally and have been review as such with exception of the RTi A3's reviewed in Sound and Vision.

Then I listen again and turn the system up high (-8dB to 0dB) to see if the trebal becomes harsh or not. After that, I go back and into the EQ and make the proper adjustment. Then listen to the new curve again with DIRECT mode (which keep the EQ and not much else) against the PURE DIRECT (which strips all manner of sound processing).

I repeat the same on the bass and mid range for the RTi A9's. I find that the RTi A9's can use a increase in the bass frequencies and decrease in the treble frequencies. The mid range freqs are normally fine with a flat curve and there is a review which showed measurements and listening demo which said the same in Home Theater Mag.

This is how I tune the 2 channel audio in full range curve and save it in one of the presets. After a couple days of listening and coming back and forth to it, I'm able to create a nice sound that is pleasing to MY ears.

I absolutely love the MCACC because I can do what I want. I would like 2 improvements.

Separate crossover setting for all speakers.
To be able to adjust the EQ while listening to material.

Not needed, but a sub EQ would make it as good as I would ever need.

B Run · August 2011

SRTer wrote: »

I absolutely love the MCACC because I can do what I want. I would like 2 improvements.

Separate crossover setting for all speakers.
To be able to adjust the EQ while listening to material.

Not needed, but a sub EQ would make it as good as I would ever need.

Those are the only things about my new Elite that really bug me, plus there's no hdmi overlay for volume or listening mode. I think when you spend that much for good equipment that's not too much to ask for. Coming from an Onkyo 3008 with Audyssey mulitq xt32 it's not even in the same ballpark. I like the sound, power and the reliability of Pioneer better than the Onkyo though.

Pioneer Elite SC-35 + Adcom + RTi A9= Great!

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