W4S DAC-2: Does the Driver Support ASIO?

falconcry72
falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
edited August 2011 in Electronics
Does the proprietary driver that you have to use with the Wyred for Sound DAC-2 support ASIO playback?

If not, can it be configured in another way to bypass Window's kmixer?

Thanks, gents!:smile:
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
Post edited by falconcry72 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • PrazVT
    PrazVT Posts: 1,607
    edited August 2011
    You should be able to use kernel streaming (winamp or jriver) or wasapi (jriver). Wyred4Sound actually provides some nice tips to setting up the DAC-1 / 2 in jriver player.

    http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/i/74030/212814/366500
    Dali Optikon 1Mk2
    NAD D3020 V2
    Schiit Bifrost 2/64

    ..the rest are headphone setups.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited August 2011
    I use foobar 2000. It's free and supports all three bit-perfect playback modes. I usually use ASIO, but I don't have any issues with using WASAPI for the W4S D2. Cool!:smile:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,432
    edited August 2011
    A unit that expensive and raved about has to have an ASIO driver/capability.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited August 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    A unit that expensive and raved about has to have an ASIO driver/capability.

    H9

    I took a quick look at the manual, and it looks like it does not support ASIO.

    What's more is that if you're running windows XP, you have use Direct Sound, which really sucks because, well, it's not direct.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,432
    edited August 2011
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    I took a quick look at the manual, and it looks like it does not support ASIO.

    What's more is that if you're running windows XP, you have use Direct Sound, which really sucks because, well, it's not direct.

    That is a SERIOUS omission in the software for running that unit. ASIO really is the way to go if you are doing computer thing. Even my inexpensive (compared to the W4S) Musiland Monitor 02 has proprietary ASIO plug-in.

    Perhaps someone like Face will chim in and give some insight.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    Unless you're using the USB connection, I'm pretty sure it does support ASIO drivers.

    XP? Get with the times! :D
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited August 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    ... ASIO really is the way to go if you are doing computer thing.

    I'm a little new to this, but from what I understand, ASIO, WASAPI, and Kernel Streaming all allow for bit-perfect playback, so as long as you can use one of them it shouldn't matter which, I think...
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited August 2011
    Face wrote: »
    Unless you're using the USB connection, I'm pretty sure it does support ASIO drivers.

    XP? Get with the times! :D

    I'm talking about the USB connection.

    Ha! I moved past XP long ago; I just thought it was noteworthy.:wink:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    Their proprietary driver is needed for USB playback. In fact, any USB DAC that is capable of 24/192, additional drivers are necessary.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,432
    edited August 2011
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    I'm a little new to this, but from what I understand, ASIO, WASAPI, and Kernel Streaming all allow for bit-perfect playback, so as long as you can use one of them it shouldn't matter which, I think...

    Except ASIO is direct plug-in. Kernel streaming requires some configuration and knowledge so it's extra work.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    edited August 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Except ASIO is direct plug-in. Kernel streaming requires some configuration and knowledge so it's extra work.

    H9

    H9....I'm using kernel streaming with my w4s dac2, running on J river. What configuration is needed. I'm a little new....but want to get the best sq out of my pc rig.

    And is there a sonic quality difference between asio, kernel, and wasapi?
    Thanks
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/New-J-River-WASAPI-Event-Style

    I need to do some more testing, but the differences have been subtle at most.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,432
    edited August 2011
    Not sure because I haven't used Kernel streaming since my Window's XP days with a soundcard. At that point there was some configuring of both Windows settings and the soundcard settings in order to be sure you were getting "true" Kernel streaming and bypassing the horrible Windows mixer.

    If you can control the volume by any means other than your pre-amp/integrated amp or receiver you most likely aren't Kernel streaming. I say most likely because I am not familar with JRiver or how it interphases.

    When I was running Kernel streaming none of my music players (Media Monkey, WINAMP, etc) had volume control; neither did the audio console for Windows. I could only control the volume by the integrated amp. That's one sure way to know if you are truly Kernel streaming.

    As I understand it ASIO is a plug in that allows Kernel streaming.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,432
    edited August 2011
    ASIO bypasses the normal audio path from the user application through layers of intermediary Windows operating system software, so that the application connects directly to the sound card hardware. Each layer that is bypassed means a reduction in latency (the delay between an application sending audio information and it being reproduced by the sound card, or input signals from the sound card being available to the application). In this way ASIO offers a relatively simple way of accessing multiple audio inputs and outputs independently. Its main strength lies in its method of bypassing the inherently high latency and poor-quality mixing and sample rate conversion of Windows audio mixing kernels (KMixer), allowing direct, high speed communication with audio hardware. Unlike KMixer, an unmixed ASIO output is "bit identical" or "bit transparent", that is, the bits sent to the sound card are identical to those of the original source, thus having higher audio fidelity.

    In theory Kernel streaming has the same objective of bypassing the Windows Kmixer.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    edited August 2011
    Face wrote: »
    http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/New-J-River-WASAPI-Event-Style

    I need to do some more testing, but the differences have been subtle at most.


    Thanks face
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    edited August 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Not sure because I haven't used Kernel streaming since my Window's XP days with a soundcard. At that point there was some configuring of both Windows settings and the soundcard settings in order to be sure you were getting "true" Kernel streaming and bypassing the horrible Windows mixer.

    If you can control the volume by any means other than your pre-amp/integrated amp or receiver you most likely aren't Kernel streaming. I say most likely because I am not familar with JRiver or how it interphases.

    When I was running Kernel streaming none of my music players (Media Monkey, WINAMP, etc) had volume control; neither did the audio console for Windows. I could only control the volume by the integrated amp. That's one sure way to know if you are truly Kernel streaming.

    As I understand it ASIO is a plug in that allows Kernel streaming.

    H9


    Thanks H9...I will check that when I can get to my rig. I have window 7 on a newer PC, but currently ....I have the Dac2 connected to a XP desktop
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • PrazVT
    PrazVT Posts: 1,607
    edited August 2011
    All 3 should be hardware direct if implemented right (ASIO, kernel streaming, WASAPI). For this DAC, wasapi should do fine. I tried wasapi via the DAC vs ASIO through my X-Fi Titanium HD -> optical out (audio creation / bit matched mode) to the DAC-1 and I didn't hear any differences.

    As for kernel streaming - I used to make use of Steve Monk's winamp plugin for kernel streaming or otachan's ASIO output plugin (google 'em) depending on which sound card I had at the time. As H9 mentioned, if the volume control doesn't work it's usually a good sign that the plugins are working correctly.
    Dali Optikon 1Mk2
    NAD D3020 V2
    Schiit Bifrost 2/64

    ..the rest are headphone setups.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bikerboy
    bikerboy Posts: 1,231
    edited August 2011
    I just downloaded the beta of MediaMonkey 4 and was able to use the wasapi output plugin on my windows 7 pc. I use a juli@24/192 soundcard to output spdif via coax out to the TPA buffaloII dac. I tried to use asio before with MM3 but couldnt figure out how to make it work. Now the pc sounds very good. Much cleaner sounding. Makes me think this pc sound could sound as good as my transport. I never thought that before I used the wasapi plugin. I was also getting dropouts on a regular basis and now not a single dropout unless I power up a component. Big improvement in the sound. Thanks for the thread to get the bug in my ear and get this wasapi setup properly.
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 w Polk LSiM 703/ Pioneer 42" plasma w Flex Streamer, Sangaen HDT-1tuner
    Vinyl: Nothingham Spacedeck->Pioneer PL L1000 linear arm->Soundsmith DL 103R w Contact line stylus->SUT->
    Bottlehead Eros
    Digital: I7 PC w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY
    CD: DIY Shigaclone
    Vinyl rips: ESI Juli@24/192->Goldwave->i7 PC server
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    bikerboy wrote: »
    I was also getting dropouts on a regular basis and now not a single dropout unless I power up a component. Big improvement in the sound. Thanks for the thread to get the bug in my ear and get this wasapi setup properly.
    Time to pick up a UPS for your PC.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bikerboy
    bikerboy Posts: 1,231
    edited August 2011
    So between the http://www.computeraudiophile.com/ site and http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/index.html I've had a lot to read about this usb/plugin stuff. I need to read more. Using the proper plugin whether it be wasapi, direct, or asio seems to be hardware and OS dependent. I wish I had looked into this more a while ago. It makes the computer sound much better. No dropouts so far! Now I need to get the phone to control the pc and I'm set!
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 w Polk LSiM 703/ Pioneer 42" plasma w Flex Streamer, Sangaen HDT-1tuner
    Vinyl: Nothingham Spacedeck->Pioneer PL L1000 linear arm->Soundsmith DL 103R w Contact line stylus->SUT->
    Bottlehead Eros
    Digital: I7 PC w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY
    CD: DIY Shigaclone
    Vinyl rips: ESI Juli@24/192->Goldwave->i7 PC server
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter