RTA-12C Mod Thread

VR3
VR3 Posts: 29,385
edited August 2011 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
We are replacing all the internal wiring and going with ERSE caps and resistors...

The wire is just generic wire - but the old wire was pretty brittle.

We will also be replacing the stock connectors with fresh ones...
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
Post edited by VR3 on
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited May 2011
    Just waiting on some connectors... (one done)

    One down one to go!!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited May 2011
    a huge improvement once everything is burned in. :biggrin:

    I completed the upgrades on my 12C's about two months ago. I noticed improvement in sound quality immediately, but it's only in the last couple of days that it has taken another leap forward.

    These speakers really do have some of the best imaging I've ever heard.

    Although prevailing wisdom here on the board is to replace the SL1000's with RDO 194's, I can find nothing wrong with the former. I listen for the harshness that everyone talks about and I'm not hearing it. Perhaps the sonicaps and mills have taken care of that issue, I don't know. Anyway, I'm very pleased with mine. :cool:

    Post on the changes you hear when you get them up and running!

    Fred
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited May 2011
    I believe it is the SL2000 that is considered bright...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited June 2011
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I believe it is the SL2000 that is considered bright...

    here on vintage, the SL1000 is universally (well, almost. . .) hated for a peak around 13khz, what some describe as a tizziness or brightness. The SL2000 is generally considered to be better, but still flawed with a tilt upwards.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited June 2011
    I forgot to take pics but got these modded and shipped back in only 6 days!

    Woo hoo! Go me! :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • factorz
    factorz Posts: 353
    edited June 2011
    Don't worry I will make sure to snap lot's of pictures when they get back.
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  • factorz
    factorz Posts: 353
    edited June 2011
    Well after some delays I have everything back and set up. I have not had a real chance to do any real listening, but as soon as I do I will give a report.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited June 2011
    Yep this one has been an adventure!

    Cant wait to hear your thoughts! :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited June 2011
    I will go ahead and give everyone a run down of what happened with this -

    We replaced the internal wiring but the wiring that was outside the cabinet was to short - so we had to ship it back. The item arrived and was out literally the next morning. The problem was later that day I learned of something I did not know before (about leaving the bypass caps blank in these designs, my fault) - so we rerouted the package and I received them Tuesday this week and I got them back out a hour later fixed up and second day aired them for Chris.

    This has been a roller coaster ride - I try do quality work but I will admit up front this is a learning process for me - I test all crossovers before they leave and the jumpers did not seem to affect anything but I felt it was better to be safe than sorry.

    Thanks Chris for your patience and understanding and I hope the crossovers sound AWESOME!

    I would like to comment I stand behind my work 100% - any issues or anything I will make sure it is rectified as fast as humanly possible.

    Thanks for everyones support in allowing me to modify their crossovers! :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2011
    WHy not make your work a bit neater Trey? Go easy and slow on the glue instead of just gooping it all over the component. You only need enough to secure the item to the board or to one another.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • factorz
    factorz Posts: 353
    edited July 2011
    Trey is correct when he says this one was a adventure, but to his credit he did everything he could to fix the setbacks that happened quickly. He even went as far as to offer to refund some of my money.

    In the end it's a learning experience and while I am sure I could have gotten upset at some of the setbacks I just didn't feel it was necessary.

    I hope to get some listening in this extended weekend and give a report. I had planned to take some pictures, but I was so eager to get everything in and working that I did not.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited July 2011
    Thanks Mark and noted.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited July 2011
    factorz wrote: »
    Trey is correct when he says this one was a adventure, but to his credit he did everything he could to fix the setbacks that happened quickly. He even went as far as to offer to refund some of my money.

    In the end it's a learning experience and while I am sure I could have gotten upset at some of the setbacks I just didn't feel it was necessary.

    I hope to get some listening in this extended weekend and give a report. I had planned to take some pictures, but I was so eager to get everything in and working that I did not.

    Chris is THE MAN. Plain and simple.

    Those Erse caps are pretty cool, at their price - they are formed in epoxy and everything.... super neat for the money.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • factorz
    factorz Posts: 353
    edited July 2011
    I had a little time this morning before work to get some listening in and right away I noticed a huge improvement in the bass! I had purchased a sub from Outlaw to use with my last set of speakers and when I got these I found myself using it less and less. Now I really don't see a need for it at all.

    Quick question when it comes to the fill. I used Sonic Barrier in the speakers so is the orginal fill still needed?
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited July 2011
    You should still use the fill
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • factorz
    factorz Posts: 353
    edited July 2011
    Well I have spent most of the early morning listening and I am happy with the results. Now I am not much of a writer so please forgive me if I don't paint a great picture, but everything just sounds cleaner! The bass is so much tighter and as I said in a previous post the sub I have is no longer needed.

    I am a huge Phish fan so a good majority of my listening is their live shows and now I really get a sense of the venue they are planning. It's if it's something from the early years I can hear that small club sound compared to a large festival show. I also feel like I can hear where each of them is standing on the stage.

    It was funny as I had a party last night and I put on the Little Feats record Waiting on Columbus and one of my friends commented how life like it sounded. I tend to agree.

    So overall I am very happy with my decision to do these mods and feel I have some great speakers that are going to be with me for a long time. I also want to say that anyone of thinking of working with Trey it was a good experience. While we did have some set backs I know this is the first set of RTA's he has done and I don't think it would happen to the next guy.

    Again I am sorry if I wasn't able to write what I am hearing, but I if your thinking of doing these mods my .02 is it's worth it.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited July 2011
    To awesome!

    Thanks Chris!

    Enjoy! :)
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited July 2011
    factorz wrote: »
    Well I have spent most of the early morning listening and I am happy with the results. Now I am not much of a writer so please forgive me if I don't paint a great picture, but everything just sounds cleaner! The bass is so much tighter and as I said in a previous post the sub I have is no longer needed.

    I am a huge Phish fan so a good majority of my listening is their live shows and now I really get a sense of the venue they are planning. It's if it's something from the early years I can hear that small club sound compared to a large festival show. I also feel like I can hear where each of them is standing on the stage.

    It was funny as I had a party last night and I put on the Little Feats record Waiting on Columbus and one of my friends commented how life like it sounded. I tend to agree.

    So overall I am very happy with my decision to do these mods and feel I have some great speakers that are going to be with me for a long time. I also want to say that anyone of thinking of working with Trey it was a good experience. While we did have some set backs I know this is the first set of RTA's he has done and I don't think it would happen to the next guy.

    Again I am sorry if I wasn't able to write what I am hearing, but I if your thinking of doing these mods my .02 is it's worth it.

    I did mine about 3 months ago and the mods (x-overs both upper and lower, rewired with OCC 18 awg, dynamatted all drivers) literally transformed them. Although I doubt I could sell them for what I have in them, they are so clean and with such improved imaging I'll be using them for a long long time.

    BTW, Waiting for Columbus is one of my all time favorites too! IF you're a Feat Fan another good live albume is Live at at Neon Park.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • factorz
    factorz Posts: 353
    edited July 2011
    drumminman wrote: »
    I did mine about 3 months ago and the mods (x-overs both upper and lower, rewired with OCC 18 awg, dynamatted all drivers) literally transformed them. Although I doubt I could sell them for what I have in them, they are so clean and with such improved imaging I'll be using them for a long long time.

    BTW, Waiting for Columbus is one of my all time favorites too! IF you're a Feat Fan another good live albume is Live at at Neon Park.

    Yeah I doubt I could sell mine either for what I have into them, but for me that is fine. Next on my list would be a tube amp of some sort, but that might be a way down the road.

    I will try and check out the Neon Park.
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  • Esreuter
    Esreuter Posts: 176
    edited July 2011
    I would like to learn something here.

    How does one know when a cap is a bypass cap?

    Is it marked? where it is placed in the circut? or the type of cap it is?

    what is the danger of replacing a bypass cap with a better quality cap of the same specs?

    Thank you guys!

    ESR:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    More to come :biggrin:
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited July 2011
    Usually a bypass cap is a real small value (less than 1uf) and the idea is when you use lytic caps or a lower quality poly cap you can use a higher quality cap to bypass it and obtain a higher sound quality...

    Usually you can tell if the bypass cap is used in this methiod if they are on the same trace at both points with a larger capacitor... usually they are oriented side by side on a board
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Esreuter
    Esreuter Posts: 176
    edited July 2011
    Vrm,

    it sounds good, but a little hard to visualize.

    do you have any photos and such that you can direct me to for some refrence?

    thank you very much for your help in my learning process!

    ESR:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    More to come :biggrin:
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited July 2011
    I dont have a pic on hand but pretty much any SDA crossover when you see a poly cap (usually yellow) you will see a small black cap directly beside it, that is the bypass.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Esreuter
    Esreuter Posts: 176
    edited July 2011
    got it.

    those sda xos are huge! man f.

    thats all the words i can muster for that.

    ESR:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    More to come :biggrin:
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  • Michael8it
    Michael8it Posts: 192
    edited August 2011
    If you have the time, could you post a parts list for your upgrade / recap? I just got a pair of original 12's and will look at recapping them. Would save me some time if you had a parts list.
    Carver C-1, M-500 MKII, Yamaha HTR-5835, Polk RTA 12BM's (M-for mod'd).
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited August 2011
    Michael8it wrote: »
    If you have the time, could you post a parts list for your upgrade / recap? I just got a pair of original 12's and will look at recapping them. Would save me some time if you had a parts list.

    This is the ultimate compendium for upgrading/refreshing RTA 12C's. Don't know which model you have, but regardless you should find some useful info here:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116480&highlight=geoff727 :wink:

    There is a sticky either on Vintage Speakers or DIY Mods with parts list for all the vintage Polk models.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • factorz
    factorz Posts: 353
    edited August 2011
    drumminman wrote: »
    This is the ultimate compendium for upgrading/refreshing RTA 12C's. Don't know which model you have, but regardless you should find some useful info here:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116480&highlight=geoff727 :wink:

    There is a sticky either on Vintage Speakers or DIY Mods with parts list for all the vintage Polk models.

    100% with Geoff thread being really good! While I did not do the xo myself I did many of the other mods in this thread. Still loving my RTA's!!!
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