Lip sync delay problem, HELPPPPPP
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Posts: 115
I have a new flat screen, samsung 8000 series, connected to my denon avr 5308. All my players such as 2930, 3910, 3800, HD-toshiba and the like, even the one (4010)that was added to my system days ago, are showing lip sync issues. My system has never shown that kind of problem before untill such time that I got this new TV. My question is this: Do you think the major cause of this irritating dalay is due to my flat screen or something goes wrong with my avr or all my players? PLease help me and need your advice.
By the way I am using WOW dics to help me calibrate my system in temrs of vidio and audio. But I need to know what exactlly causing this irratating lip sycn delay issue.
By the way I am using WOW dics to help me calibrate my system in temrs of vidio and audio. But I need to know what exactlly causing this irratating lip sycn delay issue.
Post edited by @@@@@ on
Comments
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I assume that you're using HDMI from source to AVR, then HDMI to TV? I could be TV is slower in the display of signal. Most AVR have sync control built in them, so you could add it there to make up TV slowness.
Speakers
Carver Amazing Fronts
CS400i Center
RT800i's Rears
Sub Paradigm Servo 15
Electronics
Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
Parasound Halo A23
Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
Pioneer 79Avi DVD
Sony CX400 CD changer
Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR -
disneyjoe7 wrote: »I assume that you're using HDMI from source to AVR, then HDMI to TV? I could be TV is slower in the display of signal. Most AVR have sync control built in them, so you could add it there to make up TV slowness.
That's a good advice but there is anothe problem. My players are showing different time of lip sync delays. I can't adjust my avr due to that reason. -
I forgot to add that my tv can't be returned because it is over a month in my possession. Please advise me what to do.
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By pass the AVR for now and see if the problem persists.
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Think you could add like -2ms to the AVR for a general sync error. Then +/- whatever you need for the other source sync problem, on that source vs. the AVR.
Speakers
Carver Amazing Fronts
CS400i Center
RT800i's Rears
Sub Paradigm Servo 15
Electronics
Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
Parasound Halo A23
Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
Pioneer 79Avi DVD
Sony CX400 CD changer
Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR -
By pass the AVR for now and see if the problem persists.
I just did what you told me to do and I found out that there was no delay. I used my newly arrived denon 4010 and it did not show any kind of delay. Will that mean that it is my avr that is causing this lip sync problem? How will I fix it if all of my players have their own different time of delay? -
I tried it again and there is no show of delays once directly connected to my tv.
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Return the TV. [EDIT] Crap, I missed the post above.
The TV seems to have a delay on the outputs. Time to sell and verify that the next TV does not have the same issue.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I can't because it is more than one month under my possession.
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I apologize. I had read your original post earlier and got distracted [small kid in the house gettin' into mischief]. When I came back, I did not read all of the posts before commenting, hence the edit. My bad.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Have you checked the TV for lip synch settings? My Sony has them and that's what corrected the problem for me.
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This is not unusual, and there's probably nothing wrong with your TV. Lip synch issues are sometimes an issue with HDMI.
From your AVR manual:Lip Sync
Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex enduser adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic video/audio synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with total accuracy.
Your AVR has Auto Lip Synch - is it turned on? (See page 33)
If that doesn't do it, check out page 54 (Audio Delay). -
I apologize. I had read your original post earlier and got distracted [small kid in the house gettin' into mischief]. When I came back, I did not read all of the posts before commenting, hence the edit. My bad.[/QUOTE
Thanks for your help. -
jmwest1970 wrote: »Have you checked the TV for lip synch settings? My Sony has them and that's what corrected the problem for me.
There is no lip sync adjustment on my new TV. That's more anoying now. -
HDMI V1.4a.....
HDMI IN 1(DVI), 2(ARC), 3, 4, PC/DVI AUDIO IN
x For better picture and audio quality, connect to a digital device using an HDMI cable.
x An HDMI cable supports digital video and audio signals, and does not require an audio cable.
? To connect the TV to a digital device that does not support HDMI output, use an HDMI/DVI and audio cables.
x The picture may not display normally (if at all) or the audio may not work if an external device that uses an older version of HDMI mode is connected to the TV. If such a problem occurs, ask the manufacturer of the external device about the HDMI version and, if out of date, request an upgrade.
x Be sure to use an HDMI cable with a thickness of 14 mm or less.
x Be sure to purchase a certified HDMI cable. Otherwise, the picture may not display or a connection error may occur.
x A basic high-speed HDMI cable or one with ethernet is recommended. This product does not support the ethernet function via HDMI.
x This product supports the 3D and ARC (Audio Return Channel) functions via an HDMI cable. Note that the ARC function is supported by the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port only.
? If 3D Auto View is set to On, some functions such as Internet@TV may be disabled. In this case, set 3D
Auto View or 3D Mode to Off.
x The ARC function allows digital audio to output via the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port. It can be enabled only when the
TV is connected with an audio receiver that supports the ARC function.
Denon 5308 is HDMI 1.3a (http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/US/AVR_CI_HDMI_Capabilities_AVP_5308CI-3808CI_xx09xx_v0708.pdf)
Denon will be offering an upgrade to our flagship A/V Surround components, the AVR-5308CI and the AVP-A1HDCI.
What is included in this upgrade?
Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (including Audyssey Pro)
Audyssey DSX Surround Processing
Dolby PLIIz Surround Processing
3D Video Pass-through via HDMI 1.4a -
mdaudioguy wrote: »This is not unusual, and there's probably nothing wrong with your TV. Lip synch issues are sometimes an issue with HDMI.
From your AVR manual:
Your AVR has Auto Lip Synch - is it turned on? (See page 33)
If that doesn't do it, check out page 54 (Audio Delay).
The auto lip synch of my 5303 is always on. While the page 54 is my last option just in case there is other ways of resolving this irritating problem.
Thanks for your reply by the way. -
HDMI V1.4a.....
HDMI IN 1(DVI), 2(ARC), 3, 4, PC/DVI AUDIO IN
x For better picture and audio quality, connect to a digital device using an HDMI cable.
x An HDMI cable supports digital video and audio signals, and does not require an audio cable.
? To connect the TV to a digital device that does not support HDMI output, use an HDMI/DVI and audio cables.
x The picture may not display normally (if at all) or the audio may not work if an external device that uses an older version of HDMI mode is connected to the TV. If such a problem occurs, ask the manufacturer of the external device about the HDMI version and, if out of date, request an upgrade.
x Be sure to use an HDMI cable with a thickness of 14 mm or less.
x Be sure to purchase a certified HDMI cable. Otherwise, the picture may not display or a connection error may occur.
x A basic high-speed HDMI cable or one with ethernet is recommended. This product does not support the ethernet function via HDMI.
x This product supports the 3D and ARC (Audio Return Channel) functions via an HDMI cable. Note that the ARC function is supported by the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port only.
? If 3D Auto View is set to On, some functions such as Internet@TV may be disabled. In this case, set 3D
Auto View or 3D Mode to Off.
x The ARC function allows digital audio to output via the HDMI IN 2(ARC) port. It can be enabled only when the
TV is connected with an audio receiver that supports the ARC function.
Denon 5308 is HDMI 1.3a (http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/US/AVR_CI_HDMI_Capabilities_AVP_5308CI-3808CI_xx09xx_v0708.pdf)
Denon will be offering an upgrade to our flagship A/V Surround components, the AVR-5308CI and the AVP-A1HDCI.
What is included in this upgrade?
Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (including Audyssey Pro)
Audyssey DSX Surround Processing
Dolby PLIIz Surround Processing
3D Video Pass-through via HDMI 1.4a
Can you be more kind enough to explain these great tips in a lay man language in two or trhee sentences fo that I can follow and execute your splendid thoughts?
As far as the avr 5308 upgrade is concerned, I have already signed up less than a month ago I think.
By the way, I just want to let you know, my friend , that when I bought my denon 4010 days ago, I also purchesed 2 items of vodka hdmi 1.5 meters long (audioquest ) to make sure that everything is going to be ok. As the result, it is not.
I will try to remove other hdmi atteched to my tv to see if there will be some magic improvement. I will keep the new hdmi connected to tv to make sure that every posibility is done before I become crazy due to this very expensive hobby. -
Can you be more kind enough to explain these great tips in a lay man language in two or trhee sentences fo that I can follow and execute your splendid thoughts?
As far as the avr 5308 upgrade is concerned, I have already signed up less than a month ago I think.
By the way, I just want to let you know, my friend , that when I bought my denon 4010 days ago, I also purchesed 2 items of vodka hdmi 1.5 meters long (audioquest ) to make sure that everything is going to be ok. As the result, it is not.
I will try to remove other hdmi atteched to my tv to see if there will be some magic improvement. I will keep the new hdmi connected to tv to make sure that every posibility is done before I become crazy due to this very expensive hobby.
1) HDMI outputs of your equipment (AVR-BD) must be version "1.4" to apply the standard of your TV.
2) If you have a TV version 1.3 is no problem if the signal of "AVR" is 1.4.
3) The problem occurs when your TV is more advanced.
4) The HDMI cables must be high speed. -
Bernal,
You know what I think you're absolutely right. That's what is going on right now in my system. Do you think this delay is not going to take place anymore once the upgrade somewhere in october is over?
How can I attach pic on this forum so that I can show your my system? -
1) HDMI outputs of your equipment (AVR-BD) must be version "1.4" to apply the standard of your TV.
2) If you have a TV version 1.3 is no problem if the signal of "AVR" is 1.4.
3) The problem occurs when your TV is more advanced.
4) The HDMI cables must be high speed.
As you said, I removed my old hdmi from the back of my tv and there was so much improvement compared to what it was a while ago. However, the slight delay is still present. -
Bernal,
Is the upgrade going to change my avr 5308 hdmi from 1.3s to 1.4? -
Bernal,
Is the upgrade going to change my avr 5308 hdmi from 1.3s to 1.4?
I think we are closer to the solution to the problem.
With the update is sure to be resolved.
In my case, to avoid problems with the HDMI 1.4a update my system.
I updated my Denon 4308Ci to the new Marantz AV-7005, as well as my Oppo BDP-83SE to Oppo BDP-93, both ready to HDM 1.4a, LG N2B1DD2 Network Storage, Furman IT-Reference-15-I, Furman AC-215 and a new 65-inch plasma.
(see: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117202) -
I totally skipped all talk on HDMI versions... I honestly have no idea what the differences are between any of the versions. I am amazed that people have issues like this, and have to upgrade their equipment to resolve it.
I guess I got it easy with a HTPC... i had lipsync issues and all I had to do was change the settings to delay audio by 90ms.. done... don't AVRs/BDPs have this capability? It sounds cool to have some fancy talk between the TV/AVR to get correct lipsync, but you'd think they'd have a manual setting -
cokewithvanilla wrote: »I totally skipped all talk on HDMI versions... I honestly have no idea what the differences are between any of the versions. I am amazed that people have issues like this, and have to upgrade their equipment to resolve it.
I guess I got it easy with a HTPC... i had lipsync issues and all I had to do was change the settings to delay audio by 90ms.. done... don't AVRs/BDPs have this capability? It sounds cool to have some fancy talk between the TV/AVR to get correct lipsync, but you'd think they'd have a manual setting
The various HDMI versions are explained in "http://www.hdmi.org/"
When faced Hardware compatibility issues in the only option is to upgrade.
Home Theater Personal Computer is different, simply adjust the software. -
The various HDMI versions are explained in "http://www.hdmi.org/"
When faced Hardware compatibility issues in the only option is to upgrade.
Home Theater Personal Computer is different, simply adjust the software.
Thank you so much for your great sharing like this one. I am learning a lot for your thoughts -
cokewithvanilla wrote: »I totally skipped all talk on HDMI versions... I honestly have no idea what the differences are between any of the versions. I am amazed that people have issues like this, and have to upgrade their equipment to resolve it.
I guess I got it easy with a HTPC... i had lipsync issues and all I had to do was change the settings to delay audio by 90ms.. done... don't AVRs/BDPs have this capability? It sounds cool to have some fancy talk between the TV/AVR to get correct lipsync, but you'd think they'd have a manual setting
You're right too in your sharing. But what I am looking for is what exactlly causes the lip sync issue on my system that I never experienced in the past untill I change my TV more than a month ago.
As what others say in this topic that there might be incompatibility issue between my TV and AVR such as my new tv has 1.4 while my avr 5308 has 1.3a. While others suggest that there is an audio adjustment on my tv which I finally found, but it does not completely resolve the delay. There is still a slight delay about 140 ms.
I am still very confident that there is a huge solution to this problem even without using the lip sync adjustment on either tv, players or my avr. And I am still waiting for that. -
Here is another thing, my one week old denon 4010 (via denon link ) is set to 150 ms. 2930 ( via hdmi ) is set to 185 ms, my 3910 (via hdmi ) is set to 189 ms, my denon 3800 is set to 200 ms ( via hdmi/analogue ) and my HD toshiba ( via hdmi ) is set to 197 ms. These are the different audio adjustments I've set on some of my players. I use WOW dics to calibrate this irritating mental torturing chronic delay issue.
Please don't hesitate to share your opinions regarding this delayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. -
Any other suggetions.
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Any other suggetions.
Friend
I believe this may be easier if you return to start.
Set all components to 0 delay and then assign the same delay at all.
HDMI is the high-speed version.
Start delay setting on the TV. -
1.- ".....Every TV is different, even off the same assembly line. Not only that, every TV owner's viewing environment conditions will be somewhat different, requiring different picture control settings. Add to that the variations in signals from varying signal source devices, such as cable/satellite box, optical disc player, game console, etc. This "popular' thread from the top of this section of the forum describes the problem with using the same settings as other samples of the same model of TV: 'Sharing display menu settings?' . To do the best job of adjusting the settings properly, each TV owner should use reference test signals from a source such as the Disney disc, a test pattern generator, or hire a professional calibrator to do the work. There is really no shortcut to image fidelity.
Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate
"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"...."
2.- Possible Causes of Lip-Sync Problems
The original film or video production was careless about sync
The network distributor of a telecast processes both the video and audio, but the video processing delays the image so it lags behind the sound.
The local station processes the video, delaying it further.
The satellite or cable service processes the video as part of its data reduction to fit in as many channels as possible.
Your own DVD player and/or HDTV display processes the video?whether upsampling or converting from interlaced to progressive or not.
Errors made during the DVD authoring process
Delays introduced by an outboard video scaler (if you use one)
If you run your video through your AV preamp or receiver which upsamples and/or converts the signal, that can delay the video
The increased video processing required for HDTV.
3.- http://www.felston.com/dd740/details.htm
4.- http://www.avhub.com.au/index.php/Product-Reviews/Hi-Fi/primarefelstonalchemy2-lip-sync-error-delays.html
5.- Finally, they rely too much on a single product.
Try other calibration discs.
The disc may have a manufacturing error.
