Sunfire Cinema Grand Sig Edition

bsoko2
bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
edited April 2011 in Electronics
I just installed one today (5 channel) and was wondering about the RCA plugins on the back. There are dual RCA jacks on the back labled Voltage Source and Current Source. Which one is best for listening and playing music or movies? OR, what is the difference between the two? This only is for the mains and center.

However, it does sound really good thru my moded 2.3TL's.

Thanx, Bill
My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
Post edited by bsoko2 on
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2011
    Try both. One is suposed to mimic the tube sound. Make sure you turn off the amp before switching.
    Take care Bill
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,928
    edited March 2011
    I run the Voltage taps to the mids and the current taps to the tweets. This really helped take the brightness out of the SL3000's. If you still have some of them BTW I am in need of a couple...


    Here is the manual for the amp, which will explain better.

    http://www.sunfire.com/manuals/Cinema%20Grand%20Signature%20Series%20II%205-Channel%20Power%20Amplifier%20Manual.pdf
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon MiND2 Shunyata Triton

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    I just installed one today (5 channel) and was wondering about the RCA plugins on the back. There are dual RCA jacks on the back labled Voltage Source and Current Source. Which one is best for listening and playing music or movies? OR, what is the difference between the two? This only is for the mains and center.

    However, it does sound really good thru my moded 2.3TL's.

    Thanx, Bill
    First, congrats on your buy and welcome to the SigCin Club. How far did you jump when you plugged it in? :biggrin:

    Just to settle the terminology, those aren't "RCA pluggins" they're speaker binding posts that accept banana plugs.... which I highly recommend you use. Very tight back there...

    Above reply sets you up for a bi-wire rig... definitely worth trying. For even more grins you can tap the surrounds for voltage outputs to your MW's and the L/R current outs for your tweets. The referenced manual details the jumpering to accomplish this.

    I bi-amped my SRS's that way... and trust me none of the "that ain't true bi-amping" crowd will bother you when you use a Sunfire SigCin... :wink:
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    Prior to the Sunfire I was using Carver M1.5t for my amps on my speakers. Yes, the Sunfire puts out more juice (3 db more) then the Carver. I really like the tube SQ.

    Ben, glad to hear from you. How are you doing?

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    Watched the P-51 Mustang attack on the tanks in Valkeryie and the airstrip landing of Hitler. Freakin awesome with the Sunfire. Hit 110 db with no sweat and the calirity in the audio is amazing. This is the way to watch movies.
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,928
    edited March 2011
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    Watched the P-51 Mustang attack on the tanks in Valkeryie and the airstrip landing of Hitler. Freakin awesome with the Sunfire. Hit 110 db with no sweat and the calirity in the audio is amazing. This is the way to watch movies.

    Wait until you try it with two channel audio.:biggrin:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon MiND2 Shunyata Triton

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • bdtae5656
    bdtae5656 Posts: 235
    edited March 2011
    Im very Jealous of you bsoko2, Ive been looking everywhere for that amp!!! Congrats to you
    TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
    Mains: Lsi m 705
    C:Lsi m 706
    Rears: Lsi m 703
    Sub: Epik Empire
    Pre:Marantz AV 7005
    Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
    Blueray: Opp 93
    A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
    Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    Got on ebay for 1600 shipped and it is the 405 wpc. Can't say enough about this amp, just awesome!
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • bdtae5656
    bdtae5656 Posts: 235
    edited March 2011
    HAHA..That must of been you bidding against me
    TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
    Mains: Lsi m 705
    C:Lsi m 706
    Rears: Lsi m 703
    Sub: Epik Empire
    Pre:Marantz AV 7005
    Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
    Blueray: Opp 93
    A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
    Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    bdtae5656 wrote: »
    HAHA..That must of been you bidding against me

    Sorry, I meant 1699 with free shipping and it was a "Buy It Now" deal. I did bid on the one you were bidding on and it went close to what I paid anyway and it was the older model at 400 wpc.
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • Flip8812
    Flip8812 Posts: 11
    edited March 2011
    If you are going to use the current and voltage connections you may want to consider addind an active crossover before the amp. This way you can limit the input closer to the signals that will be used. No since in sending the Low Fq signals to the tweeters. Example If you 'Amp' 80Hz signal and send it to the tweeter the speaker or passive crossover is going to peel this back off. So if you use an active crossover prior to the amp you will be more efficient in that less will be wasted amping up a signal the speaker isnt going to use.
    Just my 2 cents. Have fun with it!
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    Well... so much for the bi-amp patrol not bothering SigCin owners...
    Flip8812 wrote: »
    So if you use an active crossover prior to the amp you will be more efficient in that less will be wasted amping up a signal the speaker isnt going to use.
    Just my 2 cents. Have fun with it!
    The efficiency gain is slight. While the HF Ch's' amps will step up the voltage, because the x-over capacitor generates a high resistance (100's of ohms) to the LF portions of the signal, the LF power output is vastly reduced.

    More later on this is a new thread....
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    I bought some Monoprice RCA to XLR 6 foot cables and got a "out of phase" message on my reciever while doing a calibration. While the speakers were just sitting with no audio, I got "poping" noises from the mains via the amp. RCA plugin on Pio SC-37 Elite reciever and XLR plugin on the Sunfire Cinema Signature Edition 405. Checked scematic on the Sunfire manual for the XLR and compared to Monoprice XLR and the wiring doesn't match. Went to the Mackie Speakers page and looked at a XLR plugin and it is different than the Sunfire plugin as far as the pin arragnement with hot and cold. What gives??
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • chargerman426
    chargerman426 Posts: 419
    edited March 2011
    Just wondering why you would even bother buying the rca to xlr converters. Your not going to benefit by having them so I would tell monoprice they don't work and get your money back.
    If life had more tubes it would be a lot smoother.
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    chargerman426 wrote: »
    Just wondering why you would even bother buying the rca to xlr converters. Your not going to benefit by having them so I would tell monoprice they don't work and get your money back.

    Going to get my $$$ back. I was wondering why the Sunfire XLR and the Mackie XLR are wired different?
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • thuffman03
    thuffman03 Posts: 1,325
    edited March 2011
    Voltage Source: Normal voicing of sound.
    Current Source: Supposed to be tube sounding voicing

    I can tell a bit of a difference on mine. I tend to use Voltage sounce. Base seems to be stronger though highs are a bit more bright.
    Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited March 2011
    You guys are misleading bsoko2. He's talking about the DUAL RCA INPUTS on the Sunfire. They are intended for being able to bi-amp (or MULTI-amp) from a single source by daisy-chainging from one channel to the next. It's fully possible to drive 7 channels/speakers from only one input this way. Pretty cool feature:

    SunfireCinemaSevenRearBiAmp.jpg

    The Current/Voltage tap OUTPUTS are separate:

    SunfireCinemaSevenRearcurrent_Voltagetaps.jpg

    THESE can be used to separate the voicing (Current = tube-like) between upper/lower range of your speakers.

    These amps are incredibly versatile.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited March 2011
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    Going to get my $$$ back. I was wondering why the Sunfire XLR and the Mackie XLR are wired different?

    Sunfire pinouts follow the EIA International Standard for balanced pinouts:

    SunfireBalancedPinout.jpg

    EIA Standard RS-297:

    EIAStandardRS-297BalancedPinout.jpg

    So your Mac must be WRONG!!:biggrin:
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    The sunfire grand signature edition 5 channel 405 wpc manual has the XLR as;

    1 is ground

    2 is negative

    3 is hot

    misprint or was Carver ahead of his time????
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    You guys are misleading bsoko2. He's talking about the DUAL RCA INPUTS on the Sunfire.

    Sure we are... :rolleyes: ...that's why he said this...
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    There are dual RCA jacks on the back labled Voltage Source and Current Source.

    So get your little pic back out and circle the RCA's labelled "Voltage" or "Current".
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,072
    edited March 2011
    Tour2ma wrote: »
    Well... so much for the bi-amp patrol not bothering SigCin owners...



    Bi-amp patrol ?? Hmmm....do we get cool jackets or somethin' ? With a nice official looking patch I hope.:smile:
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    LOL... well if you like, I can whip something up patch-wise that at least I would think is suitable... :biggrin:
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited March 2011
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    I just installed one today (5 channel) and was wondering about the RCA plugins on the back. There are dual RCA jacks on the back labled Voltage Source and Current Source. Which one is best for listening and playing music or movies? OR, what is the difference between the two? This only is for the mains and center.

    However, it does sound really good thru my moded 2.3TL's.

    Thanx, Bill

    There are NO RCA jacks labelled Voltage/Current; there are SPEAKER BINDING POSTS labelled Current/Voltage as I showed in the following post.
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    You guys are misleading bsoko2. He's talking about the DUAL RCA INPUTS on the Sunfire. They are intended for being able to bi-amp (or MULTI-amp) from a single source by daisy-chainging from one channel to the next. It's fully possible to drive 7 channels/speakers from only one input this way. Pretty cool feature:

    SunfireCinemaSevenRearBiAmp.jpg

    The Current/Voltage tap OUTPUTS are separate:

    SunfireCinemaSevenRearcurrent_Voltagetaps.jpg

    THESE can be used to separate the voicing (Current = tube-like) between upper/lower range of your speakers.

    These amps are incredibly versatile.
    bsoko2 wrote: »
    The sunfire grand signature edition 5 channel 405 wpc manual has the XLR as;

    1 is ground

    2 is negative

    3 is hot

    misprint or was Carver ahead of his time????

    Tour2ma wrote: »
    Sure we are... :rolleyes: ...that's why he said this...



    So get your little pic back out and circle the RCA's labelled "Voltage" or "Current".

    Here ya go: :tongue:

    SunfireCinemaSevenRearcurrent_Voltagetaps_CIRCLED.jpg

    As I said above, the SPEAKER outputs are the V/C taps. The RCAs aren't labelled at all. One is for input, one for output---makes no difference which you use. So bsoko2 was confused as far as I know.

    Do you have the pic from your manual? Are the same pins labelled with the same numbers? I pulled my pic directly from the Cinema Grand Seven manual...I pulled the pic below from the 400x5 manual on Sunfire's website:

    Sunfire400x5Sig_XLRPinout.jpg

    Weird; that model is different for some reason...??? Is the U.S. standard different from International Standard?
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited March 2011
    Quoted from stereo_buff on carveraudio.com:
    stereo_buff wrote:
    The same condition exists with the ~two stereo amplifiers; the manual claims that pin 3 is hot, 2 is cold. The de facto standard is, however, the reverse: pin 2 is hot, 3 is cold. I asked Bill at Rita's and he said they changed the units over during production to the latter configuration but failed to revise the documentation. His advice to me was to try it - if it's wrong it will be out of phase.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited March 2011
    Quoted from stereo_buff on carveraudio.com:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stereo_buff
    The same condition exists with the ~two stereo amplifiers; the manual claims that pin 3 is hot, 2 is cold. The de facto standard is, however, the reverse: pin 2 is hot, 3 is cold. I asked Bill at Rita's and he said they changed the units over during production to the latter configuration but failed to revise the documentation. His advice to me was to try it - if it's wrong it will be out of phase.

    With this info from stereo _buff, my carver amp XLR is wired wrong and is wired as per the manual. Monoprice cables were wired proper and that is why I got a "out of phase" warning from my reciever during setup.

    Bill
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited March 2011
    Bill, you might consider going inside the amp & swapping the wiring to the two XLR connectors. That would probably be the easiest fix.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bsoko2
    bsoko2 Posts: 1,449
    edited April 2011
    tnrabbit wrote: »
    bill, you might consider going inside the amp & swapping the wiring to the two xlr connectors. That would probably be the easiest fix.

    . . . Ok!
    My 2012 HT Room - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416077/bsoko2-new-ht-june-2012
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited April 2011
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Here ya go: :tongue:

    SunfireCinemaSevenRearcurrent_Voltagetaps_CIRCLED.jpg

    As I said above, the SPEAKER outputs are the V/C taps. The RCAs aren't labelled at all. One is for input, one for output---makes no difference which you use. So bsoko2 was confused as far as I know.
    Sigh... Yes, emphasis on was... Sometimes you have to read the whole thread...

    Here's Post #4...
    Tour2ma wrote: »
    Just to settle the terminology, those aren't "RCA pluggins" they're speaker binding posts that accept banana plugs.... which I highly recommend you use. Very tight back there...

    Above reply sets you up for a bi-wire rig... definitely worth trying. For even more grins you can tap the surrounds for voltage outputs to your MW's and the L/R current outs for your tweets. The referenced manual details the jumpering to accomplish this.
    And here's Post #24...
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    There are NO RCA jacks labelled Voltage/Current; there are SPEAKER BINDING POSTS labelled Current/Voltage as I showed in the following post.
    Glen Close to TNRabbit (played by Jeff Goldblum) in The Big Chill while impersonating Elmer Fudd... wrote:
    TNWabbit... If you awe going to sweep in, you awe going to miss a few mewwowdwamas...
    :biggrin:
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter