SDA effect in other products?

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polkfan38
polkfan38 Posts: 360
edited December 2010 in Speakers
After reading some more about the SDA effect, a memory popped into my head. Back in the early 80s, my friends and I were getting into stereos and the all important "boom box". There were a number of makes (Panasonic and Techniques to name a few) that had a switch on them labled "Ambiance" or "Spatial". When activated, the soundstage would go from just in front of the radio to something two to three times it's size in width! Beyond this, it is hard to describe the sound. I still have one of the Panny models with this effect. Could this be the same thing? I believe it sends the signal from one channel back to the other with a very slight delay.
What are your thoughts?
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,697
    edited December 2010
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    No it's not the same thing. Not even close to how SDA works.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • wayne3burk
    wayne3burk Posts: 939
    edited December 2010
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    Yeah - I'm sure this subject has been brought up before. I believe the Carver C-1 preamplifier has a sonic holography feature that is essentially a crosstalk noise cancelling signal sent to the opposing speaker.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_holography

    wayne
    Yamaha RX-V2700, EMI 711As (front), RCA K-16 (rear), Magnavox Console (Center & TV Stand), Sony SMP-N200 media streamer, Dual 1249 TT =--- Sharp Aquas 60" LCD tellie
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  • AudioGenics
    AudioGenics Posts: 2,567
    edited December 2010
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    digital filters
    .... " SDA is patented and exclusive to Polk Audio "
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  • polkfan38
    polkfan38 Posts: 360
    edited December 2010
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    When was it patented?
    Things are more like they are now than they ever will be!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,697
    edited December 2010
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    polkfan38 wrote: »
    When was it patented?

    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec. 12-18-84

    Click here

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited December 2010
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.

    LOL

    That's sig material right there!
    Truck setup
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    Phoenix Gold RSD65CS

    For Sale
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,697
    edited December 2010
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    I believe the original patent for SDA's has run out..........too lazy to look so don't quote me on that. Surround Bar technology which is based on the SDA process is patented however.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • polkfan38
    polkfan38 Posts: 360
    edited December 2010
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    UG! Thanks guys. Yes, I could have looked it up. It's more fun to ask in here! What is "sig material"? Are you making fun of me? (I'm laughing)
    Things are more like they are now than they ever will be!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,697
    edited December 2010
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    polkfan38 wrote: »
    UG! Thanks guys. Yes, I could have looked it up. It's more fun to ask in here! What is "sig material"? Are you making fun of me? (I'm laughing)

    Maybe a little :tongue:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited December 2010
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    polkfan38 wrote: »
    UG! Thanks guys. Yes, I could have looked it up. It's more fun to ask in here! What is "sig material"? Are you making fun of me? (I'm laughing)

    What Brock said, it's worthy of being in a signature (look, I implemented it in mine!)
    Truck setup
    Alpine 9856
    Phoenix Gold RSD65CS

    For Sale
    Polk SR6500
    Polk SR5250
    Polk SR104


    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,697
    edited December 2010
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    Actually, I took some time to re-read the patent and it should be a sticky in the vintage forum. It very succinctly outlines what and how SDA performs. It would answer a lot of questions for those who are just discovering what SDA is.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • polkfan38
    polkfan38 Posts: 360
    edited December 2010
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    Cool. Thanks guys! Just think how cool a portable SDA radio would be!
    Things are more like they are now than they ever will be!
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  • nguyendot
    nguyendot Posts: 3,594
    edited December 2010
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    It wouldn't...
    Main Surround -
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    Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD
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  • wayne3burk
    wayne3burk Posts: 939
    edited December 2010
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    how cool would SDA headphones be???
    Yamaha RX-V2700, EMI 711As (front), RCA K-16 (rear), Magnavox Console (Center & TV Stand), Sony SMP-N200 media streamer, Dual 1249 TT =--- Sharp Aquas 60" LCD tellie
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,016
    edited December 2010
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    wayne3burk wrote: »
    how cool would SDA headphones be???

    ha. they have em. theyre called stereo headphones :P
    there is no crosstalk to be cancelled.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,016
    edited December 2010
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    You know this brings up an interesting memory... Polk made SDA for cars. does anyone know anything about this????
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,697
    edited December 2010
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    newrival wrote: »
    You know this brings up an interesting memory... Polk made SDA for cars. does anyone know anything about this????

    We installed a few killer systems back then, but sadly it never really took off. My memory is foggy but I believe there was a "processor" box all the speakers ran through and it was quite expensive for the day, IIRC. It was pretty cool.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • polkfan38
    polkfan38 Posts: 360
    edited December 2010
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    SDA everywhere! Yay! Polk really needs to bring it back for the towers!
    Things are more like they are now than they ever will be!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,223
    edited December 2010
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    newrival wrote: »
    You know this brings up an interesting memory... Polk made SDA for cars. does anyone know anything about this????

    Yep.
    There was a venture with Hyundai back in the 80's, when those cars were first being sold here. Problem was they were being stolen because word got out that the car stereos sounded so good. Also, there was the Polk Audio ACM (active cancellation matrix) sold as a car audio seperate. I believe it was basically just a passive network. Results when using it were varied. :cool:
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,016
    edited December 2010
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    I found something on this: http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/products/mm3a/
    I would love to hear this setup
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,016
    edited December 2010
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    more: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109851
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,653
    edited December 2010
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    nap wrote: »
    Yep.
    There was a venture with Hyundai back in the 80's, when those cars were first being sold here. Problem was they were being stolen because word got out that the car stereos sounded so good. Also, there was the Polk Audio ACM (active cancellation matrix) sold as a car audio seperate. I believe it was basically just a passive network. Results when using it were varied. :cool:

    Correct and it didn't work in every vehicle due to the fact the existing sound system was usually awful to begin with. For the most part Polk laid 12v on the side, for many years unfortunately. The later DSP idea from other manufacturers was better but still couldn't fix the underlying problem. I hate to say it but the BOSE systems were one of the first to get commercially and large scale manufacturer oriented. At that point so much was changing in home audio vs car audio that Polk simply missed the curve.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • TitaniumMan
    TitaniumMan Posts: 93
    edited December 2010
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    Howzabout this?
    http://www.vanlspeakerworks.com/quartet.html

    "Ambient recovery system... We use dual voice coil drivers and an additional connection between the speakers to pass the differential information between the two speakers."
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  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited December 2010
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    This content has been removed.
  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,016
    edited December 2010
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    doro, do you have experience with the mm3a or SDA in cars? if so, was it any good?
    I once saw the SDA xover matrix up on ebay, but i had no idea what it was.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited December 2010
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    I heard an SDA setup in a competition Van in Philly once. It sounded pretty sweet but the whole setup was custom. I can't see it working in most cars as speaker placement is usually compromised due to doors, windows and seats.

    I will say that the Van is question had the best sounding system of the day. The detail it delivered was beyond anyone's expectations.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,653
    edited December 2010
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    newrival wrote: »
    doro, do you have experience with the mm3a or SDA in cars? if so, was it any good?
    I once saw the SDA xover matrix up on ebay, but i had no idea what it was.

    Only twice and it was neat but I've heard much better custom setups that were simply EQ'd better. I don't believe it was quite as plug and play as it was designed to be and by then it was not something that sold well anyways. With the emphasis on front staging being more common, since that does sound better theres no need. DSP eclipses the SDA effect in a vehicle and it even outdoes SDA in a 2CH setup. Polk is already doing a lot of DSP work in the subwooofers and will extend that into more active components down the road.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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