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Comments
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mdaudioguy wrote: »And if you keep reading through the thread...
Who cares? Some think the OP should buy an Emotiva amp, while others think he should look at used amps that once sold for more money. It's his choice - all the opinions are out there.
1st off the GTG said they sound exactly the same. Everything after that is a far 2nd IMO.
I'm personally suggesting that as many components as the op can go ears on that he does so. If he has a good dealer network around him that's great. If return shipping on the Emotiva is a deal breaker in the eval process then strike it off the list. Noy giving E a serious thought is a mistake.
Do I really feel my GFA will blow the XPA- 3 out of the water? No, not really. I would like to a/b them for fun at some point. -
Why do so many here seem threatened by the very suggestion that he try an Emotiva amp? It's new, has a 5 year warranty, and a 30 day return policy. How many used amps have that? None.
So what if it's entry level gear? The OP has stated more than once, that he's new at this, isn't that entry level is for? -
Butter what is your nearest big city? You may have people here and on other boards that are willing to let you visit for a listening session.
If you want to listen to an Emotiva you could register in their lounge and ask there. -
Just some information for the OP to digest.Hmmmmm....
With people comparing a line up of amps to fischer price toys...
Then finding out the Carver and Emotiva are either sharing the same exact chasis or voiced exactly the same....
One shouldn't be so quick to say what's foolish or not.
To the OP: let me google that for you
Enjoy the reading.
How does this have ANYTHING to do with the discussion. It doesn't, as neither one of these amps were recommended. You are not proving anything with what you are posting. The Emo is no longer in production and I don't think the Sunfire in question is either.Please don't resort to personal insults.
Those who may prefer tube amps and their audio and thermal warmth, may dislike the neutral and cool character of the Emotiva amps. When you are used to distortion and heat, it is really missed when it isn't there.
I grew up on tube gear and never liked their audio warmth. Perhaps that is why I enjoy the more precise output of the Emotiva amplifiers so much.
Emo is not neutral and cool. It is a very forward and bright amp. Give me some warmth any day over harsh and annoying because I can't stand it.
I've owned XPA-1s, XPA-3, UPA-2, and other stuff by Emo. Its fine for entry level HT but 2 channel there is better out there that I would enjoy more and more and not think about switching it out all the time.
The adcom listed is a very nice amp, just look around and see what else is out there. I tried emo but honestly found a lot of the "giant killer" status and other things that they are boasted as not true.
In the end if you have to try it for yourself just to see then thats fine, just know what used amp market is fine as well and is a very good place to find bang for your buck amps and other parts. -
How does this have ANYTHING to do with the discussion. It doesn't, as neither one of these amps were recommended. You are not proving anything with what you are posting. The Emo is no longer in production and I don't think the Sunfire in question is either.
Are you saying you wouldn't recommend a Carver?
My point is watch where you throw stones. Because the next time you bash something like the XPA-2 you just might be bashing the Sunfire Grand. Again, you would have to ask Concealer and all the people at that particular GTG.
Yes, the XPA-2 is *While supplies last. Not sure what your point is since a good portion of this discusion is about USED (you know, not in production any longer) amplification.
Be interesting to see what they replace it with.Emo is not neutral and cool. It is a very forward and bright amp. Give me some warmth any day over harsh and annoying because I can't stand it.
I compared the XPA-3 to a C272 (which is an amp on the 'warmer' side of things). This was on some PSB Synchrony Ones (REALLY frikin' nice speaker).
In comparison to the NAD the Emotiva IMO was flat and neutral (which is my preference). I didn't find it bright/forward/harsh. Now the piece of crap Carver M400 (early 90's) that I owned for a whole two months was bright/forward/harsh.I've owned XPA-1s, XPA-3, UPA-2, and other stuff by Emo. Its fine for entry level HT but 2 channel there is better out there that I would enjoy more and more and not think about switching it out all the time.
Everyone's mileage may vary. Just becuase I like my Parasound doesn't mean it is or is not the two channel amp for everyone else.The adcom listed is a very nice amp, just look around and see what else is out there. I tried emo but honestly found a lot of the "giant killer" status and other things that they are boasted as not true.
In the end if you have to try it for yourself just to see then thats fine, just know what used amp market is fine as well and is a very good place to find bang for your buck amps and other parts.
So why did you so obviously point out that the XPA-2 and Sunfire Grand are no longer in production, i.e. USED market amps.
I believe the first time 'giant killer' has been mentioned in this thread is right now.
And I agree, used amplification is where I would personally spend my $$. The OP may or may not want the confidence of new and warrantied items. I agree with you that the OP should try the Emotiva out. Leave no unturned stones. -
Are you saying you wouldn't recommend a Carver?
My point is watch where you throw stones. Because the next time you bash something like the XPA-2 you just might be bashing the Sunfire Grand. Again, you would have to ask Concealer and all the poeple at that particular GTG.
Yes, the XPA-2 is *While supplies last. Not sure what your point is since a good portion of this discusion is about USED (you know, not in production any longer) amplification.
Be interesting to see what they replace it with.
.
You are just .....
The amp is still in production, its called they have a holiday sale going on right now and thus while supplies last is what they are talking about.
Know what your talking about before you open your mouth.The while supplies last disclaimer is on ALL of their products currently on sale. So must mean the company is going under???????
just wow. I'm not even going to touch the rest because everything you say has to be taken with a grain of salt. -
And the best part? (at least in my case) They seem to hold their value... Apparently there's no shortage of people willing to pay near-new prices to buy used ones. Go figure.Why do so many here seem threatened by the very suggestion that he try an Emotiva amp? It's new, has a 5 year warranty, and a 30 day return policy. How many used amps have that? None.
So what if it's entry level gear? The OP has stated more than once, that he's new at this, isn't that entry level is for? -
The Emo is no longer in production and I don't think the Sunfire in question is either.
ORThe amp is still in production, its called they have a holiday sale going on right now and thus while supplies last is what they are talking about.
Well, make up your mind. Is the Emo in production or isn't it? I really don't care either way. LOL.
You are the one making suppositions. Not me.Know what your talking about before you open your mouth.The while supplies last disclaimer is on ALL of their products currently on sale. So must mean the company is going under???????
Yes, I agree: Know what you're (not your) talking about:rolleyes: -
x wrote:Please don't resort to personal insults.
What personal insult? You put your foot in your mouth, yet again. I simply pointed out that fact.willy wrote:So what if it's entry level gear? The OP has stated more than once, that he's new at this, isn't that entry level is for?
As he doesn't own entry level speakers, he would be doing himself a disservice driving them with an entry level amp. Hello!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I own Adcom, I own Parasound I am happy to say I am pro-both. What I am not is anti-Emotiva.
I'm not either. What I'm attempting to do is share my thoughts and experiences. I'm also making an assumption that there are others out there like me, who will get fixated on this one product. Like others here, I'm just trying to make the OP aware of his options... and sharing my opinion, too. I'm not bashing, but my opinion is that he should shy away from entry-level amplification for speakers that are well-beyond entry-level. (Edit: I typed that before I saw F1's post!)
EDIT: Didn't I say I was out of here once already? :rolleyes: -
What personal insult? You put your foot in your mouth, yet again. I simply pointed out that fact.
As he doesn't own entry level speakers, he would be doing himself a disservice driving them with an entry level amp. Hello!
Polks top of the line speaker is another companies entry level product. Very nice entry level but still entry level. It's all about perspective. -
Polks top of the line speaker is another companies entry level product. Very nice entry level but still entry level. It's all about perspective.
Fail.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Polks top of the line speaker is another companies entry level product. Very nice entry level but still entry level. It's all about perspective.
I have sat here watching these threads just do this over and over again and at this point feel I cant just keep staying neutral anymore. So I only really have one question. Who pisses in your Cheerios every morning?
All you do is hop in threads, bash anyone who disagree's with you, after of course betting money in shootouts, and then sit on your throne as the God of all audio.
I honestly think your going to do nothing but continue to piss the community off here.
I should just join start hopping into your AVSFORUM threads and bash you over and over again, as well as any products you use. But I am sure you would enjoy that.
Do us all a favor and if your gonna piss on Polks products in a Polk forum.....just PISS OFF!"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Polks top of the line speaker is another companies entry level product. Very nice entry level but still entry level. It's all about perspective.
Entry Level your ****! How is that for perspective? You are just trying to pee on the things that is way above your head.
I don't want to defend LSi but everyone who has a pair properly powered by a good amp (be it tube or SS) knows how good LSi sound in person.
Have you tried it before? Nil? Nada? None?Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
OR
Well, make up your mind. Is the Emo in production or isn't it? I really don't care either way. LOL.
You are the one making suppositions. Not me.
Yes, I agree: Know what you're (not your) talking about:rolleyes:
Seriously, stop trolling.
The XPA-2 is still in production, the MPS that you are referring to, ya know the one that you say is the same thing as a Sunfire, is not. -
EndersShadow wrote: »I have sat here watching these threads just do this over and over again and at this point feel I cant just keep staying neutral anymore. So I only really have one question. Who pisses in your Cheerios every morning?
All the brand bashers.EndersShadow wrote: »All you do is hop in threads, bash anyone who disagrees with you
Since I tend to debate in the vein of the Socratic method: Find a post in this thread where I bashed anyone for disagreeing with me. Go for it.EndersShadow wrote: »I honestly think your going to do nothing but continue to piss the community off here.
How people react is 100% on them. Says more about you than I.
Some people will react negatively (F1nut, ben, you) some won't. X, William, CokewithVanilla, CFrizz, myself.EndersShadow wrote: »
I should just join start hopping into your AVSFORUM threads and bash you over and over again, as well as any products you use. But I am sure you would enjoy that.
Do us all a favor and if your gonna piss on Polks products in a Polk forum.....just PISS OFF!
By all means do. You'll not be only more educated about all things audio, you might be taught some manners.
BTW, I am not bashing any Polk product. The LSi's are a high end product in their market space. Polk makes a solid offering, w/o pretensions that mere mortals can afford. Kind of like Emotiva. -
Seriously, stop trolling.
The XPA-2 is still in production, the MPS that you are referring to, ya know the one that you say is the same thing as a Sunfire, is not.
You're the one that mispoke. How detached with reality can you get.
I was primarily talking about the XPA-2 and the Sunfire Grand that Concealer spoke about.
There are NOW two Emo amps that have been equated by other polkies here to Sunfire designs.
How you are going to explain that away w/o trashing Sunfire product is going to be interesting to watch. -
Because that XPA-2 at $800 may be a Sunfire Grand Cinema at multiple times the price.
FAIL
I have heard both side by side and heard a very audible difference, they are not the same amp by a long shot. I'm not an E fan nor a Carver fan. I don;t care for the sound of either of them........but they are NOT the same amp. The Sunfire was the better sounding amp to my ears.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
the XPA was nice and neutral the entire spectrum.
Apparently you've never heard a truly neutral amp. E amps are far from neutral, that statement makes me chuckle. Such dis-information. My statement is not to bash the E brand, but to state that it is far from neutral. If you like things that way (far from neutral) that's great, but let's not continue with such a skewed opinion.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
Those who may prefer tube amps and their audio and thermal warmth, may dislike the neutral and cool character of the Emotiva amps. When you are used to distortion and heat, it is really missed when it isn't there.
FAIL again.
Tube amps can be designed to actually sound more realistic vs. solid state amps. E amps are not neutral at all. You guys that keep saying this need to get your ears on some truly neutral gear. You would most likely dislike it because you are so use to the colored sound coming from most of the gear your own.
There is nothing wrong with liking that type of sound but stop portraying E gear as neutral. It's far, far from it.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
You're the one that mispoke. How detached with reality can you get.
I was primarily talking about the XPA-2 and the Sunfire Grand that Concealer spoke about.
There are NOW two Emo amps that have been equated by other polkies here to Sunfire designs.
How you are going to explain that away w/o trashing Sunfire product is going to be interesting to watch.
When did I talk about the wrong amp? show me. The whole post I quoted from you was about the MPS amp from Emo vs the Sunfire. The majority of the post that I first talked about was the MPS V Sunfire, at which it is even posted its the MPS that is talked about in the 2nd post from Matt and that then the back of a sunfire (model I don't know).
Ben's post (concealer) just stated that it sounded like a Sunfire when comparing a XPA-2 vs sunfire. does that mean they are the same amp? no.
You then said the XPA-2 had *while supplies last.
I stated that it was due to their holiday sale and that it was on all their stuff
You then claim I was wrong.
I also stated that it was the MPS amp vs the Sunfire.
You are the one that is disproving your self and never once proved me wrong. -
Why do so many here seem threatened by the very suggestion that he try an Emotiva amp? It's new, has a 5 year warranty, and a 30 day return policy. How many used amps have that? None.
So what if it's entry level gear? The OP has stated more than once, that he's new at this, isn't that entry level is for?
It has more to do with disinformation for me. You'd think that all other audio products should cease production since E gear is IT. It does no wrong, it's precise, neutral, inexpensive, lots of people are using them, etc. etc. It has gone far, far beyond being a casual suggestion to a full blown fanfare parade.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
When did I talk about the wrong amp? show me. The whole post I quoted from you was about the MPS amp from Emo vs the Sunfire. The majority of the post that I first talked about was the MPS V Sunfire, at which it is even posted its the MPS that is talked about in the 2nd post from Matt and that then the back of a sunfire (model I don't know).
Fair enough. You were talking about the MPS. Still as a whole we are talking about used and new amplification. So it fit's one of the criteria.Ben's post (concealer) just stated that it sounded like a Sunfire when comparing a XPA-2 vs sunfire. does that mean they are the same amp? no.
Ok here is a case in point with one of my issues with some of the long tooths here.
Ben didn't say it sounded like a Sunfire. He personally (and by context of the post EVERYONE ELSE at the GTG) said it sounded EXACTLY like the Sunfire.
It's disingenous posts that, slowly as the thread progresses, try to bury the reality of it that really makes it hard have an above board conversation.You then said the XPA-2 had *while supplies last.
I stated that it was due to their holiday sale and that it was on all their stuff
You then claim I was wrong.
I also stated that it was the MPS amp vs the Sunfire.
You are the one that is disproving your self and never once proved me wrong.
I was primarily talking about Concealers experience, you were talking about the MPS series. Ships passing in the night. It happens. I hope we can agree we are on the same page now. -
Apparently you've never heard a truly neutral amp. E amps are far from neutral, that statement makes me chuckle. Such dis-information. My statement is not to bash the E brand, but to state that it is far from neutral. If you like things that way (far from neutral) that's great, but let's not continue with such a skewed opinion.
H9
Compared to the C272 the XPA-3 was flat / neutral. I haven't compared it to my Parasound or Adcom or Crown XLS. And no I wouldn't take your word for it any more than you would mine.
Measurement wise the XPA-3 is almost ruler flat 20 to 20.
I put about 11 CD's worth of music through the XPA-3 and PSB Synchrony Ones. Never once did I feel fatigued even when volumes were higher than reference level. The XPA-3 definitely runs cooler than my GFA 5503. Along with 12v trigger and balanced inputs may in some peoples mind make it a more desirable amp then my 5503. -
juju wrote:Find a post in this thread where I bashed anyone for disagreeing with me. Go for it.
Ok....juju wrote:You're the one that mispoke. How detached with reality can you get.
Never mind the fact that you were wrong about the matter to begin with. :rolleyes:Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I would like to thank a certain person for helping me find out you have an ignore list. That and giving me a reason to use it."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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We should get together and buy xcrapy and juju EMO banners for their audio room.Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Seriously, stop trolling.
The XPA-2 is still in production, the MPS that you are referring to, ya know the one that you say is the same thing as a Sunfire, is not.
1> I never said the MPS was a Sunfire. No one said it was a Sunfire. Someone else said it was a Carver.
:eek:
2> I never said the XPA-2 sounded exactly like a Sunfire. Someone else did. :rolleyes:
3> Find any single prior post where I typed: MPS. I posted a thread where it was compared to a Carver to make a point to all you haters. That's all.
4> The only Emotiva product I've personally typed out in this thread is XPA-2 and 3.
If anyone has a problem with this take it up with the person/s who made those claims.Hmmmmm....
I know, I know....you look like a fool, but then again, you should be use to it by now.
I just wanted to post what an actual bash is when someone disagrees with you.
:rolleyes: -
We should get together and buy xcrapy and juju EMO banners for their audio room.
OK Randy Bender just make sure to include the action figures with kung-fu grip:biggrin:
You guys keep on posting your emo hate and the rest of us will do what we do -
Just for the record I don't hate EMO. I just prefer to get much better for the same price if you shop in the used market Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben
