LSi Help

butter21
butter21 Posts: 19
edited December 2010 in Electronics
You could say im a green horn when it comes to all of this. But i came into a deal on LSi 25x2 LSi Cx1 LSi F/X surrounds with a DSW Micro PRO 3000 that i couldnt pass up. I have an Onkyo TX-NR708 to run all of these. I sure that the receiver dosnt have the power to push them to the full potential. But will i hurt the speaker by useing just the receiver tell i can afford an amp and what would be a good one get. Any input would be great
Post edited by butter21 on
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Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,916
    edited December 2010
    Unless your AVR can handle 4 ohm loads, I would strongly suggest you do not use it to power those speakers. Any damage will be to your AVR, not the speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2010
    Welcome to Club Polk.
    Like F1nut said you really need an amp to drive those speakers.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    the onkyo website say the A/V can put out dynamic power
    250 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
    220 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
    130 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)
    Maybe someone can clear this up for me. Can i run 4 ohm speakers with this.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,916
    edited December 2010
    Sure, if you only run one channel. :wink:

    Is there anything else that gives rated power at 8 ohms and at 4 ohms, all channels driven?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    I cant find anything that says anything for all channels. So should i look for a 2 channel amp to run the LSi 25s and have the A/V run the center and the surrounds or just fork up the cash for a 5-channel. And what would be a good one to go with. i dont have a huge budget for an amp. The polk website says the 25s are rated up to 300watts and the center and rears are 200. Like i said before im still new in this game
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2010
    Get a 5 channel:wink:
    What is your budget?
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    Id like to stay around 5-600.
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    I found a Emotiva upa-5 that says it rated at 185x5 and it was in my range. what do you think of this amp.
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2010
    Buy a better used one. Look at Adcom 75xx series, Parasound, B&K... Don't get too hung up on wattage figures. 100wpc from any of those companies is better than anything you with find in the big stores.
    audiogon.com is your friend.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1295754962&/Adcom-GFA-7500-150-watts-per-c
    That amp puts out 225wpc at 4ohms all channels driven clean.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1297150770&/B-K-Components-AV-6000-6-chann
    Real cheap, but scratched on top a bit.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1294318562&/B-K-AV6000-125-x-6
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,250
    edited December 2010
    Unless your AVR can handle 4 ohm loads, I would strongly suggest you do not use it to power those speakers. Any damage will be to your AVR, not the speakers.


    While mostly true, the speakers can also be damaged if you try to play at max volume. The resulting distortion can fry the tweeters, and maybe even the crossovers. While it might sound contradictory, the point is you can damage both the electronics and speakers using either underpowered amps, or amps unable to handle a 4 ohm load.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    So this maybe be a dumb question but if i get an amp that says it can push lets say 225watts at 4ohms will that hurt my speakers that only rated to 200watts
  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,123
    edited December 2010
    butter21 wrote: »
    So this maybe be a dumb question but if i get an amp that says it can push lets say 225watts at 4ohms will that hurt my speakers that only rated to 200watts

    Not at all. You can only do damage by under-powering and trying to play too loud. What happens there is that the waveform signal gets clipped and essentially turned into a DC current that damages the speaker coils by overheating them.

    Fr LSi speakers, the more power the better (some people will chime in about tube amps, blah blah blah but it's a good rule of thumb)
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|REL T/9X SE Sub
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,077
    edited December 2010
    Definately get yourself a 5 channel amp, and don't forget the 5 cables to hook it up. Please don't even try to run 5 lsi speakers off a receiver.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    Thanks i will go with a 5-channel now just to find one for the right price. And what kind of cables so i use for the A/V to amp.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,077
    edited December 2010
    You need a coaxial interconnect cable, I suggest you start at Signal cable and tell Frank your a club polk member for a discount. Cables can run in all price catagories but don't go too cheap because the rule of "you get what you pay for" will apply. Signal cable has reasonable quality and price for someone just jumping into the game. When you set all of this up, read your receivers manual front to back and let us know if you need help. Thats what we are here for. Oh, and welcome to the club.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    Thanks... Do you have any suggestions for amps....I found a used Adcom 5-channel that says it will put out 225watts at 4ohms thats in my price range.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,077
    edited December 2010
    The adcom is a good choice, what model is it ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited December 2010
    You should increase your budget a bit and try to get a 5 channel amp that has 200wpc @8ohms which will give the LSI's even more power @ 4ohms. There is no such thing as too much power when it comes to powering speakers especially hard to drive ones like the LSI's.

    Having this much power will let the speakers sing to their full potential and the amp will survive through all other upgrades you make to your system.

    Good bang for the buck new would be an Emotiva XPA-5. Otherwise look on Audiogon for these brands. Sunfire, Outlaw, Parasound, B&K, Nad, Rotel, Adcom.

    Congratulations on your terrific system. If you power it correctly, it will keep you happy for years to come.

    Here's a couple of good ones: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1296092107&/Parasound-Amplifier-hca2205A-t

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1295656824&/Outlaw-Audio-755-5-X-200W-Amp
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,164
    edited December 2010
    butter21 wrote: »
    I found a Emotiva upa-5 that says it rated at 185x5 and it was in my range. what do you think of this amp.

    Wow, you gotta give credit to Emotiva for being the first company that so many people "find" (myself included). Yes, that amp would definitely work for you, and is a great bargain, but as they say, "you get what you pay for." The guys (and gal) here are leading you toward amps that originally retailed for much more than that new model. You'll find with audio gear that some people abuse it, while others baby their stuff. Find one that's in cosmetically excellent condition, and chances are, it will function flawlessly. You'll be happy. The only thing you'll be missing is the chance to hear your speakers with a lesser-quality amp. Good luck! :smile:
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    The adcom is a GFA-7500. My budget is around 5-600.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,077
    edited December 2010
    butter21 wrote: »
    The adcom is a GFA-7500. My budget is around 5-600.

    That is a good start. Just be carefull of who your buying it from and if possible try and hear it before you buy. People tend to dump their junk on Ebay, stay with reputable sites like Audiogon, our own for sale area, or your local craigslist.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited December 2010
    As the voice of reason - run what you have... (I would not go much louder than -15 though on a calibrated system)

    If you hear distortion that shouldn't be there or your amp shuts down (goes into protect mode) either from the load or the heat buildup - get an external amp. The improvements you will hear with an external amp will be many, but depending on how critical a listener you are (and acoustically how good your room is) - may be subtle as well.

    For now - enjoy what you have (within reasonable limits) and if you notice things like sloppy bass or the sound is just not as crisp as you would like - start checking into an amp.


    Michael


    Edit - for full disclosure - I do have a large amp on my system and do not plan on getting rid of it any time soon. I do consider them a worthwhile upgrade - but I also like getting used to a new piece of equipment before I upgrade other things around it. It not only lets my wallet recover - it also lets me get used to the sound of my system so I can better notice any changes made by the next upgrade.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,164
    edited December 2010
    butter21 wrote: »
    The adcom is a GFA-7500. My budget is around 5-600.

    Exactly what I'm running now, and I couldn't be happier. Although mine are 8 ohm speakers, I do run three towers front and center, and it drives them very well. See what shipping would be on that amp for total cost. I was fortunate enough to find one locally, but that's not a bad price.
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,164
    edited December 2010
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    With your LSi's I would recommend the bigger XPA-5 amp. My LSi's sound excellent with that amp.

    I had an arguably better (scratch that, definitely better) 2 amp combo - XPA-2 and XPA-3. I replaced the both of them with the GFA-7500.
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2010
    EMO is like the fisher price of "high end" amps.
    I had the 7500 also. A neat feature is that it has distortion lights to let you know when you are pushing things a little too hard. If they are blinking the system is ear bleeding loud.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,164
    edited December 2010
    ben62670 wrote: »
    EMO is like the fisher price of "high end" amps.
    I had the 7500 also. A neat feature is that it has distortion lights to let you know when you are pushing things a little too hard. If they are blinking the system is ear bleeding loud.
    Ben

    Happy to report I've never seen those lights! :wink:
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    That i adcom is off the audiogon website.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,077
    edited December 2010
    butter21 wrote: »
    That i adcom is off the audiogon website.

    One is for 450 but the seller has no feedback. The other is 700 but has a ton of feedback. I would send an email to the guy with alot of feedback to see if there is any wiggle room in price.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2010
    X fisher price is still a toy.
    I have heard both amps in house:wink:
    Do you work for EMO?
    2 to 1 guys that have both had both amps in house.
    Enjoy
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • butter21
    butter21 Posts: 19
    edited December 2010
    So here is a question for someone that knows more about this then me. what would be the best option for my set up. A used Adcom GFA-7500, Emotiva XPA-3 channel and run my rears on the A/V or the Emotiva UPA-5 all of which are in my price range