Pioneer elite vsx 21

tonyb
tonyb Posts: 33,068
edited December 2010 in Electronics
This past Saturday, I picked up this puppy from Mike, looks like brand spankin' new. Again,a big thanks to Mike. I 've been playing around with it for a couple days now. Comparing to the B&K 307, my initial impressions are both good and some agravating ones to boot.
Sound quality- While the pioneer is more dynamic due to the new surround codecs, the B&K edges it out,not by much, but in the musicality dept. The wolfsen dacs give the pioneer a tad more sparkle on the top end. I would say the wolfsen is a tad bit brighter than the burr browns and offers more detail in sound retrieval. While overall,the sound differences aren't all that big, still noticable that the B&K was a tad more musical overall. The pioneer seems to put alittle more emphasis on the top end and sometimes,depending on the recording,it sounds artificial when you compare the low end with the top end. The 307 blended both high and low well and never drew attention to either one. 2 channel was pretty darn good,almost as good as the 307,almost,close,but no cigar. There is something to be said for build quality folks,lets leave it at that.

Processing- well,who can complain about DTS HD master audio. Sound is supurb. The pioneer in surround of coarse walked all over the 307, but in just plain DD, it was pretty much even. The 307 had way more fine tuning capabilities, way more configurations to taylor the speakers and the sound.

Power- hard to test as I use an amp for the front 2. From what I could tell by the surrounds though, the pioneer pushed them equally as well as the 307.

Overall,I'm happy with the new toy, but a few irritations remain. The biggest one so far is if you run everything through the avr,hdmi, you can't watch tv without the receiver on. WTF....so one more step is needed to turn the tv to a different input. Also the lack of fine tuning that I've been spoiled with by the 307,was sorely missed. Doing things on the fly,adjusting speaker levels on the fly,etc, assigning different speakers to different inputs,all on the fly if you wanted. I'll get used to it like everything else,and again,these are just first impressions. The auto set up feature is very good,very,very good. The 307 retailed over 3 g's, The pioneer retailed around 7-800, Honestly,I have to say the over all sq of the pioneer is approaching that of the higher end toys,at a fraction of the price. For those who like to tweak untill wee hours of the morning,stay with seperates, but as an all in one with good sq, and enough tweek ability for the average joe, the pioneers offer alot for the coin.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds

Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

Kitchen

Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
Post edited by tonyb on

Comments

  • bopicasso
    bopicasso Posts: 878
    edited October 2010
    I really enjoy mine! Best receiver at the price point imo.
    Living Room setup: Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH, Krell KAV 300i, PS Audio DL III DAC, Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7u, Dynaudio Audience 120C+, SVS 25/31PCI, B-P-T Clean Power Center, Ps3, Panny 50" S1 Plasma, Tekline speaker cables, Audio Art interconnects, and Pangea power cables.
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,990
    edited October 2010
    I have the earlier VSX01 and like it as well. I didn't think I would be able to watch Blu rays w/o the AVR being on but you can. Hdmi from BDP to AVR and Hdmi from AVR to TV. Works fine. Sometimes it takes a couple seconds for the TV to pick it up but it does pass it through w/o powering up the AVR. Give it a try...
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,068
    edited October 2010
    Rick88 wrote: »
    Are you saying that you can't adjust channel levels on the fly with the Elite? On my -23 you can. The numerical "zero" button on the remote brings up the menu on the front panel display. You then use the scroll wheel up or down to select the channel, then right or left on the scroll to increase or decrease the level. I thought the -21 and -23 were nearly identical.

    Anyhow, enjoy your new toy...:D

    You have to go into the menu with the pioneer,the 307 was a one button trim for levels,especially surrounds.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,326
    edited October 2010
    My first question is why would you want to watch tv without your system on? Turn the volume down and away you go if thats the reason.

    Comparing the 21 to the 307 is unfair on so many levels. The B&K is retailed at 3499.99 and the 21 at 699.99 but whats so good about the 21 is that you actually can compare it and not get clowned in sound quality. It's not in the same league as the 307 but Pioneer Elite really knows how to make a good sounding AVR. If you had a SC model this gap would be even smaller. Shocking I know.

    Good luck with the 21 it's a fine receiver.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,068
    edited October 2010
    I have the earlier VSX01 and like it as well. I didn't think I would be able to watch Blu rays w/o the AVR being on but you can. Hdmi from BDP to AVR and Hdmi from AVR to TV. Works fine. Sometimes it takes a couple seconds for the TV to pick it up but it does pass it through w/o powering up the AVR. Give it a try...

    Did it...but my main beef was with the cable box and watching broadcast tv. You can't watch regular tv without the receiver on. Pass through works for video but not audio. Which means if I change that to watch tv, then I have to go back in the menu and change it back when watching dvd. A pain and not wife friendly. I just set the cable box up on a different input on the tv. Makes for one more step when switching to blu-ray to switch inputs on the tv.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,068
    edited October 2010
    mantis wrote: »
    My first question is why would you want to watch tv without your system on? Turn the volume down and away you go if thats the reason.

    Comparing the 21 to the 307 is unfair on so many levels. The B&K is retailed at 3499.99 and the 21 at 699.99 but whats so good about the 21 is that you actually can compare it and not get clowned in sound quality. It's not in the same league as the 307 but Pioneer Elite really knows how to make a good sounding AVR. If you had a SC model this gap would be even smaller. Shocking I know.

    Good luck with the 21 it's a fine receiver.

    I noted the unfairness of it in my post Dan. I also noted the build quality of the 307 went along way in the sound you hear.
    The wife doesn't like to watch tv with the system on.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,326
    edited October 2010
    For the cablebox just run HDMI to the TV and OPTICAL or DIGITAL COAX to the receiver. Sucks to have to switch inputs on your tv but if you have a universal type remote you can program it to handle this with ease. Wife will like you better with just one remote. Then maybe having the system on all the tim calibrated correctly( which is why most don't like the system on when watching tv).
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,990
    edited October 2010
    tonyb wrote: »
    Did it...but my main beef was with the cable box and watching broadcast tv. You can't watch regular tv without the receiver on. Pass through works for video but not audio. Which means if I change that to watch tv, then I have to go back in the menu and change it back when watching dvd. A pain and not wife friendly. I just set the cable box up on a different input on the tv. Makes for one more step when switching to blu-ray to switch inputs on the tv.

    Gotcha. I run my cable box straight to the TV so I don't have that problem. Thought you were talking about BD/DVD....
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,990
    edited October 2010
    tonyb wrote: »
    The wife doesn't like to watch tv with the system on.

    My issue as well...
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,326
    edited October 2010
    tonyb wrote: »
    I noted the unfairness of it in my post Dan. I also noted the build quality of the 307 went along way in the sound you hear.
    The wife doesn't like to watch tv with the system on.

    My wife once thought as yours. Then when I went full digital and HDMI everything , she had no choice. now she is use to it and doesn't seem to be effected by it in any way.

    Just make sure your system is calibrated correct and now boosted in anyway. This is what makes people not like surround when just watching tv like the news or shows. Honestly I don't think she even notices that the surround system is on . I have always used some kind of Universal remote so turning everything on for her is as easy as if she just was using the cable remote. Actually she finds it easier.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited October 2010
    I have the earlier VSX01 and like it as well. I didn't think I would be able to watch Blu rays w/o the AVR being on but you can. Hdmi from BDP to AVR and Hdmi from AVR to TV. Works fine. Sometimes it takes a couple seconds for the TV to pick it up but it does pass it through w/o powering up the AVR. Give it a try...

    I own the vsx01 too but I dont have a manual ao I'm in the dark about the sound modes

    One thing my wife realy misses about the onkyo is the dynamic volume. Does the pioneer have a similar sound setting?

    What sound mode do you use for bluray ken?
  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited October 2010
    I own the vsx01 too but I dont have a manual ao I'm in the dark about the sound modes

    One thing my wife realy misses about the onkyo is the dynamic volume. Does the pioneer have a similar sound setting?

    What sound mode do you use for bluray ken?

    VSX-01 Manual: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Unassigned+Content/VSX-01TXH+OPERATING+INSTRUCTIONS
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,401
    edited October 2010
    You can adjust the speaker levels on the fly with the 21 FWIW...

    It is done as mentioned above with the 0 button.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited October 2010
    I've found that as long as she has the Harmony remote and can turn everything on with one press of a button it doesn't matter what speakers are on. She doesn't care that the surround setup is on or off, as long as she can easily watch TV and the volume isn't too loud.

    It's hard to imagine someone actually not wanting the system on. If she doesn't like the sub or surrounds on, with the harmony you can even program a macro that'll turn everything on and set the receiver to stereo, surely she wouldn't have a problem with only the front 2 speakers???
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,068
    edited October 2010
    Surely...she does. She listens at very low volumes. When you think about it,to watch tv with the system allways on, your constantly using more electricity too,having the receiver and amp on all the time, allthough not alot. Regardless, somehow I thought with all the advances in technology,we still can't do simple functions when intergrating HT and broadcast tv. I also tried the Kuro link between everything and while it has it's advantages,still lacks the customization I seek. Oh well,crap happens.

    Dan,your absolutely right. I was worried about getting clowned on the SQ department. My Butler amp helps out alot in that department to be fair. This pioneer, for music listening,gives about 85% of the quality the 307 had. In surround,it walked all over it,but lagged behind in pure processing power. Still,as noted,I'm comparing 2 different animals at completely different price points. Still amazed at how close the 2 are though. In the future,I am going to have to re-think spending 3 g's on a piece of gear ever again.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,068
    edited December 2010
    Just wanted to throw one more thought into this thread as a recent discovery changed things even more so.
    I was still a tad bit disappointed in the sound quality of the pioneer over my old 307,and it was eating at me. I'm talking for music here. I went through and tried every possible change in the receivers menu to try and wrangle every last bit of SQ I could out of the Pioneer. I was playing ball with the dog,ball goes behind the rack, I go to reach down and get it and notice something. When changing out receivers,I had thought I put all the same wires back as they were before. I must have put my Bogden IC'S between the receiver and amp because they were shorter. I pulled them out and put Ben's silver IC's back in as previously set up with the 307. Bam...hello...the air was back around the top end, warmer,more musical sound that I like. Stupid me I guess. The pioneer and the 307 are now within spitting distance of each other. Once again, it was proven to me what cables can do and what synergy means to a system. Just thought I throw this out there because even old dogs sometimes forget. Now where's that damn remote ?:smile:
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited December 2010
    Wives? I have my system set up so she can use just the TV or run sound through the AVR and she still forgets to turn off the set after the cable box...because I haven't programmed the Macro for that. And when I do she manages to override the Macro to turn both on and ends up leaving one of the two units on anyway? On the other hand, my daughter in a short afternoon learned how to use the TV, BOX, and the PS3 and she's only 13?

    Oh well....Dan do you do HOME INSTRUCTION....might consider that as a 'form of couples counseling'? lol

    Enjoy the Pioneer. I have some custom made silver jumpers that connect to my NAD's pre-outs and they make a difference from the stock jumpers that come with the unit.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]