Projectors People

Ricardo · August 2010

So it's about time I update my main TV. I'm still using a 720p, rear projection 57" Hitachi monster.

I've been considering the possibility of moving into a projector/screen setup. This TV is in my basement and even thought there is a walk out, there is very little light in there.
It will be used for TV (Directv-HD) and DVD (Std and Blu Ray).

So here's a few questions for those that currently have projection setups.

-Planning on a 90-100" screen using something like the Epson Home Cinema 8100. I want to be under $2,000 and this must include the projector, screen and if possible a new stand for all the gear (Current rack is vertical and needs to go).
Would this be a good enough setup? Will picture quality be as good as a 60" plasma or LCD monitor? I want to make sure that the move to 1080p is well worth it.

-The screen must be the pull down type. It will be covering the breakers panel. It would be down 99% or the time, just need to have the possibility of quickly move it out of the way if needed. Would this be a major issue? Would it be better to have a fixed screen mounted in a wheeled frame or something?

-How about setup? I am NOT a videophile or tweaker. When I buy a TV I plug it in and that's it. It looks as it looks (good) to me and I am not into improving image, professional calibration or any of that. Is a projector right for me? I would be ok for an initial setup procedure, but I don't want to be adjusting/tweaking every now and then.

Anything else I should watch out for?

Thanks!!

Serendipity · August 2010

Check out the following sites for a TON of information on front projection:

1.
www.curtpalme.com
2.
www.projectorcentral.com

To a large extent, there are more gains to be found from doing an ISF calibration on a projector than on an entry-level TV set or LCD screen. That being said, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to tweak a projector. Going into the user and service menus is FREE and you can see significant gains in calibration... it's not like spending a few hundred $$ on MIT cables or the like. Huge improvements for little or no cost can be gained by calibrating.

Ricardo · August 2010

Serendipity wrote: »

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to tweak a projector.

Well, I wouldn't mind "tweaking" it when I set it up for the first time. I understand this might be needed or just a good idea to get the best picture. But I do not want to have to repeat this every now and then, or move from setup A to setup B if I go from TV to bluray. I don't want to be "constantly" tweaking it.

Thanks for the links.

cstmar01 · August 2010

The epson you have for a choice is nice. For a screen for pull down that would be fine, or otherwise a motorized one you can have come down are nice as well and sometimes you can find deals on them.

The biggest thing though is that PQ does change when you move from say a 46" Plasma to a 100" screen. Things will appear different due to the size the picture has to be. Now will it get close and look great and make the movie very involving, yes, but is it going to always look like a Kuro up there, no.

Also you do need to calibrate the PJ and you normally should do it a few times throughout the life of the bulb. I would calibrate right out of the box, then when starting to put more hours on the bulb because it will dim to calibrate again. Normally I would do it with mine at 100 hours. To get the best picture you would want to calibrate and there are some discs you can buy like HD Basics, or the one on the oppo website to get the best picture. It does take a bit of time like 20-30 minutes but it does help. As the bulb ages the image tends to loose the brightness so calibration would be needed.

Pull down screens are fine, however they can have wrinkles appear in them, and if you have maybe a fan or something blowing can cause the screen to move around which then would be annoying when watching a movie.

Also are you putting this into a blacked out room with controled lighting? ect if you have a lot of outside light its going to affect your PQ ect.

TECHNOKID · August 2010

Ricardo wrote: »

Well, I wouldn't mind "tweaking" it when I set it up for the first time. I understand this might be needed or just a good idea to get the best picture. But I do not want to have to repeat this every now and then, or move from setup A to setup B if I go from TV to bluray. I don't want to be "constantly" tweaking it.

Thanks for the links.

That is basically what you need to do, adjust to your liking the first time around and forget about it, just like a TV once in a blue moon you might have the urge to ajust color birghtness but overall once your install adjustment are done you do not need to touch the adjustments anymore, this is a permanent set-up afterall. As far as I am concerned, aTV is more critical then a projector due to burn in that may occur if the TV is in the torch mode (default setting for store demo). This is also some that has improve and is not as critical anymore I believe. Ideally, you should visit some owners of projectors set-up to see if you like it. Personally, for movie viewing I wouldn't go back to a TV as I believe the PJ + screen is the closets experience to commercial theater but it is MHO.

Have you considered Optoma as a PJ http://www.costco.com/Common/Search.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&search=projector&N=0&Ntt=projector&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US? I've been using the 720p version for a few years with great success... You can also get a decent electric screen from the same provider http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11499719&search=projector&Mo=16&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=projector&Ntt=projector&No=3&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1. If you go similar route, you should be able to stay within you 2K budget even by adding a new rack to the bill.

NOTE: Good advices from cstmar01 up above.

Cheers!
TK

TECHNOKID · August 2010

Ricardo wrote: »

Well, I wouldn't mind "tweaking" it when I set it up for the first time. I understand this might be needed or just a good idea to get the best picture. But I do not want to have to repeat this every now and then, or move from setup A to setup B if I go from TV to bluray. I don't want to be "constantly" tweaking it.

Thanks for the links.

That is basically what you need to do, adjust to your liking the first time around and forget about it, just like a TV once in a blue moon you might have the urge to ajust color birghtness but overall once your install adjustment are done you do not need to touch the adjustments anymore, this is a permanent set-up afterall. As far as I am concerned, aTV is more critical then a projector due to burn in that may occur if the TV is in the torch mode (default setting for store demo). This is also some that has improve and is not as critical anymore I believe. Ideally, you should visit some owners of projectors set-up to see if you like it. Personally, for movie viewing I wouldn't go back to a TV as I believe the PJ + screen is the closets experience to commercial theater but it is MHO.

Have you considered Optoma as a PJ http://www.costco.com/Common/Search.aspx?whse=BC&topnav=&search=projector&N=0&Ntt=projector&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US? I've been using the 720p version for a few years with great success... You can also get a decent electric screen from the same provider http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11499719&search=projector&Mo=16&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=projector&Ntt=projector&No=3&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1. If you go similar route, you should be able to stay within you 2K budget even by adding a new rack to the bill.

Cheers!
TK

dpowell · August 2010

Epson is a good choice in projector. Also take a look at Mitsubishi's offerings. I switched to a Mitsubishi and am very happy with it. You might also find that the price point is better.

TECHNOKID · August 2010

dpowell wrote: »

Epson is a good choice in projector. Also take a look at Mitsubishi's offerings. I switched to a Mitsubishi and am very happy with it. You might also find that the price point is better.

I find that Mitsubishi quality really went down the past few years (however, I am basing on work experience for my statement). The latest small venue projector I wasn't impressed at all, the basic zoom and lense adjustment were rather flimsy, really felt like botttom of the crop Chineese manufacturing. NEC also has decent PJ at decent pricing.

Sherardp · August 2010

All excellent input, do it and don't look back bro. Epson 8100 is a great choice and will throw a bright, detailed image. If your looking for screen recommend Elite or Focupix in order to save you some coin. projector people should have the Elite, HT depot for the focupix. Consider something with a little gain to give you a little more punch to the image, like 1.2-1.4 gain. With the Epson, blacks are good so you will not need a grey screen.

Ricardo · August 2010

Thanks for all the input guys. I am looking at a Carada brilliant white screen with a gain of 1.4 I will have a fixed screen that will slide on the wall brackets, so no pull down needed.
I am mounting the projector 19 ft from the screen, and the calculator at projectorcentral says that I would be at the limit with a gain of 1.0 and the size I want.

How bad would be the image for someone sitting at an angle with a gain of 1.4?

cstmar01 · August 2010

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-benchmark/

this is the disc from Oppo that IMO works great. Also as noted by Sheardp above look for the Elite screens as they tend to have some budget friendly ones around. I got a fixed frame off of Amazon for a good price plus free shipping. Which can be more for a pull down as it would have to be shipped in one peice rather than breaking down like some of the fixed frames can come.

Ricardo · August 2010

I looked at the Elite screens and the prices are about 1/2 of what Carada costs. Is there a major difference in the quality, really noticeable, or is the difference just in profit margin?

Also, I need a long HDMI cable. Will monoprice be ok? Any compatinility issues I should be aware of?

TECHNOKID · August 2010

Ricardo wrote: »

I looked at the Elite screens and the prices are about 1/2 of what Carada costs. Is there a major difference in the quality, really noticeable, or is the difference just in profit margin?

Also, I need a long HDMI cable. Will monoprice be ok? Any compatinility issues I should be aware of?

The elite and dalite screens are widely used in our rental facilities and we never had any issues with them. The elite is also recommended on other AV sites.

I bought an in-wall HDMI cable from monoprice and never had any issues however, for a long cable make sure you buy a repeater from them. Short HDMI cables works fine without repeater but if you go let's say above 25' I'd recommend you also acquire the repeater.

Ricardo · August 2010

Never heard of the repeater thing, but I will need a 50 ft cable with all the turns it will go through. So should I get two 25 ft cables and place the repeater at half the distance, or can I just put it at the end and use a short cable from the repeater to the projector?

jon s · August 2010

rooms play a great part in the picture quality in front projector setups. If the room is light colored, contrast and image brightness will suffer. The light reflected from the screen will interact with the room color and also change the overall hue of the image. My setup used to be a beige room and the picture was sharp but lacked punch.

I repainted the front wall to flat black, side walls dark neutral grays and the ceiling with a darker shade of gray. Carpets were replaced with near black. The image on screen improved by large factor. I cannot emphasize enough how much room colors can impact the picture quality. Light control is paramount because the light hitting the screen will only be about 16-20 foot candles in a typical setup.

ESavinon · August 2010

Get the Epson 8100, A ceiling mount, a HDMI cable from Monoprice and this Elite screen:
http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens-Electric-projection-Screen/dp/B00061O4JQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IN7B97Z0KFZ4Y&colid=PLR491Y3PLAW

This setup should be more than satisfactory.

Ricardo · August 2010

jon s wrote: »

rooms play a great part in the picture quality in front projector setups. If the room is light colored, contrast and image brightness will suffer. The light reflected from the screen will interact with the room color and also change the overall hue of the image. My setup used to be a beige room and the picture was sharp but lacked punch.

I repainted the front wall to flat black, side walls dark neutral grays and the ceiling with a darker shade of gray. Carpets were replaced with near black. The image on screen improved by large factor. I cannot emphasize enough how much room colors can impact the picture quality. Light control is paramount because the light hitting the screen will only be about 16-20 foot candles in a typical setup.

Great point. Ceiling is white and walls are light brown or dark beige, take your pick.

And the room will NOT be painted dark, period. It just will not happen. Should I stop thinking about a projector?

PSOVLSK · August 2010

My experience is this: When I first got a PJ (Panny AE-900U), I had it on a white, textured wall. From that point forward, all movies were viewed in my H/T on the projector. I've since painted the walls and ceiling, replaced the carpet with dark carpet, and bought a new screen and a new PJ. These things have obviously made an improvement, but IMO the PJ alone made a huge difference when watching movies and sports.

I agree with ESavinon. That set-up should be fine.

Ricardo · August 2010

PSOVLSK wrote: »

My experience is this: When I first got a PJ (Panny AE-900U), I had it on a white, textured wall. From that point forward, all movies were viewed in my H/T on the projector. I've since painted the walls and ceiling, replaced the carpet with dark carpet, and bought a new screen and a new PJ. These things have obviously made an improvement, but IMO the PJ alone made a huge difference when watching movies and sports.

I agree with ESavinon. That set-up should be fine.

Thanks. That's helpful. I'm undecided though. Maybe in the future I can get away with painting the room, but it's going to be a tough one. If I go with this it will be with the idea of having a "clear" room forever.

Anyone else wants to give me a little push????

PSOVLSK · August 2010

I don't think the paint and carpet made as much of a difference in PQ as it just made the room look cool...like a real home theater.

If this will be a dedicated room, I say go for it. If it's going to be "the" room for general TV watching, maybe not. I have a 50" plasma in my living room and it gets much more use than my projector. For me, the PJ is almost exclusively for movies and sports.

TECHNOKID · August 2010

Ricardo wrote: »

Never heard of the repeater thing, but I will need a 50 ft cable with all the turns it will go through. So should I get two 25 ft cables and place the repeater at half the distance, or can I just put it at the end and use a short cable from the repeater to the projector?

The repeater should be at the PJ in order to amplify the signal prior to hitting the 50' cable. I use a short HDMI cable then the repeater then the 50' cable for best result. The repeater can not be used at the end of the cable as the signal is already degraded. 25' is already marginal so I wouldn't suggest 2 x 25 footers. You also don't want to have a joint somewhere in your walls (HDMI is not the greatest type of connector).

Ricardo wrote: »

Great point. Ceiling is white and walls are light brown or dark beige, take your pick.

And the room will NOT be painted dark, period. It just will not happen. Should I stop thinking about a projector?

PSOVLSK wrote: »

My experience is this: When I first got a PJ (Panny AE-900U), I had it on a white, textured wall. From that point forward, all movies were viewed in my H/T on the projector. I've since painted the walls and ceiling, replaced the carpet with dark carpet, and bought a new screen and a new PJ. These things have obviously made an improvement, but IMO the PJ alone made a huge difference when watching movies and sports.

I agree with ESavinon. That set-up should be fine.

PSOVLSK wrote: »

I don't think the paint and carpet made as much of a difference in PQ as it just made the room look cool...like a real home theater.

If this will be a dedicated room, I say go for it. If it's going to be "the" room for general TV watching, maybe not. I have a 50" plasma in my living room and it gets much more use than my projector. For me, the PJ is almost exclusively for movies and sports.

Darker colors are ideal but not a must, your concern should be more of making sure your colors are flat to avoid light reflection as much as possible.

Like PSOVLSK my PJ room is not used as often as my TVs are. During the work week I spent most of my TV watching in the bedroom while on weekends I share between living room and bedroom and on special nights, movie nights the HT is used.

IMHO, the experience on a large screen surpasses any TV big time however, there pros and cons in everything. IE; if you use the PJ as the sole source for your video viewing, the lifespan of both the lamp and PJ itself will be shorten. Most lamps are rated in the area of 3000 to 4000 hours, this might look like a long time but if you watch a lot of TV in a day, just transfer that amount into years you might find a TV will last you longer than the PJ. A PJ is however very flexible compare to a TV and will not take much floor space compared to a TV. If you and or your family are gamers, you will love a PJ. PSOVLSK pointed sports, sports are really a great experience on a PJ and large screen. Usual daily TV broadcast such as news, interviews and the like would be a waste on a PJ however, music videos, concerts can benifit from the PJ experience. Don't forget you can also hook-up your computer, laptop or HTPC to your PJ and in some cases could be appreciated, welcomed. If you are to use HT surround (5.1 or 7.1) the PJ will definitely add to the experience.

TECHNOKID · August 2010

Here is the in-wall HDMI cable I bought for the PJ; http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2804&seq=1&format=2

and here is the repeater; http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041907&p_id=2849&seq=1&format=2

cstmar01 · August 2010

I use a HDMI to DVI cable in wall rated from monoprice which is 35ft and I have no problems with the signal nor video drop out. I am not using a repeater at all either. Also very tough cable IMO and for the price couldn't get better.

and I agree. I use my PJ for movies and games only. I still have a 46" TV for cable and shows because it didn't pay to put those hours on the bulb. When your looking at replacing a bulb all the time if you watch a lot of cable on your PJ it can add up fast, but that is one nice thing about Epson, their bulbs are usually priced very well and tend not to go up. Unlike other PJ's where they will cost an arm and leg when they get over a year old.

Also if you have a TV you could always just put the TV behind your pull down screen if you still wanted to watch shows then just pull the screen down for movies. You would still have the 7.1 or whatever your using for surround and could still use the TV if its still good.

TECHNOKID · August 2010

I use a HDMI to DVI cable in wall rated from monoprice which is 35ft and I have no problems with the signal nor video drop out. I am not using a repeater at all either. Also very tough cable IMO and for the price couldn't get better.

I was doing some testing at one time using the 50' cable and omitted to put the repeater and got major drop outs and tought it was my player but as soon as I installed the repeater everything was fine.

Also if you have a TV you could always just put the TV behind your pull down screen if you still wanted to watch shows then just pull the screen down for movies. You would still have the 7.1 or whatever your using for surround and could still use the TV if its still good.

That would be a great idea and set-up however it would add to the OP's cost and more likely bust his budget.

Sherardp · August 2010

Once you see the massive improvement over image size you'll why you took so long to do it. Carada screens are top notch just under Stewart screens. The Elite screens performs very well and will prvide a great image for your enjoyment. Room color does help ,but is not a requirement. Go for it and don't look back bro. Carada makes a gorgeous screen if you can spend the coin. See my showcase for pics.

Sent from my iPad

Ricardo · August 2010

Thanks for continuing to push me to spend this money

-We are talking about the HT here. There's another TV in the family room which is where the wife watches her things and where we watch shows that we all like, another one in the bedroom, guests room, daughter's room.....
The HT is in the basement and it's mainly used for movies, some gaming when our son is home, and the little TV that I watch on my own that no one else likes (sports, a couple of shows a year). You could say this is my TV.

Ricardo · August 2010

TECHNOKID wrote: »

The repeater should be at the PJ in order to amplify the signal prior to hitting the 50' cable. I use a short HDMI cable then the repeater then the 50' cable for best result. The repeater can not be used at the end of the cable as the signal is already degraded.

I don't get this. The PJ is at the end of the cable. Did you mean the repeater should be at the receiver??

kuntasensei · August 2010

I've got a 40' run of the Monoprice cable with no repeater and it works fine. Are you running it through a receiver first? Because I can't speak for other brands, but Onkyos tend to give the HDMI feed a little boost on the way out so you may not need a repeater.

I'm running an Epson 8500UB on the cheapo Elite 100" MaxWhite ($100 from Newegg), and it looks amazing. The 8100 should look pretty damn sweet.

TECHNOKID · August 2010

Ricardo wrote: »

Thanks for continuing to push me to spend this money

-We are talking about the HT here. There's another TV in the family room which is where the wife watches her things and where we watch shows that we all like, another one in the bedroom, guests room, daughter's room.....
The HT is in the basement and it's mainly used for movies, some gaming when our son is home, and the little TV that I watch on my own that no one else likes (sports, a couple of shows a year). You could say this is my TV.

Then if the HT/PJ room is for the casual family gathering for movie watching and game playing then it is a good move.

Ricardo wrote: »

I don't get this. The PJ is at the end of the cable. Did you mean the repeater should be at the receiver??

Well, I guess I should have listened to my body and went to bed. You are right, the start of the chain is at the receiver and this is where the repeater should be installed.

I've got a 40' run of the Monoprice cable with no repeater and it works fine. Are you running it through a receiver first? Because I can't speak for other brands, but Onkyos tend to give the HDMI feed a little boost on the way out so you may not need a repeater.

There might not be any issues with the signal in most instances but when watching a good movie and your signal turn like crap, you'd wish that innexpensive repeater be part of the path. This is a sound investment to make sure you don't ruin what was suppose to be a great evening. VGA is not as sensitive as HDMI and believe me, if runs are over 50' well that repeater goes inline.

Cheers!
TK

Ricardo · August 2010

I am so doing this!!

cstmar01 · August 2010

DO IT.

Honestly its awesome. The first time you sit down for a movie and your feeling like its the theater in your home or better, thats what I love. Plus you can pause it and grab more popcorn. Heck I would rather be able to rent a movie for 3 bucks then pay 9 bucks to see a movie in a theater with a bunch of annoying other people around. This way I only have to have the people I want around and no one else.

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