will they (RTi A7) soften over time?

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Comments

  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited July 2010
    A quick RTA test update from several weeks ago:

    found RTA screen resolution setting & took careful readings at different volume levels. all dB readings relative from first measurement

    1. Peak centered @ 3550-4K hz confirming what my ears have told me all along.
    2. -5 dB @ 10 K then plateaing to above 20K
    3. greater than 10dB* dip centered below 2K* gently rising to -5dB plateau @ 500hz
    * posible XO interference

    Feel free to direct questions, comments, or flamouts to me
    tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • mak99
    mak99 Posts: 360
    edited July 2010
    Regarding the A7's sounding somewhat bright - I just bought some new A7's to replace my current RTi70's. Will there be any noticeable changes in brightness, or are the tweeters in these speakers comparable in performance?

    System notes: current speakers are bi-amped to Onkyo TX-SR805 with Kimber 8TC.
    Main HT:
    JVC DLA-RS45
    135" Elite Screens fixed frame, 1.1 gain
    Marantz SR7007 (operating as pre-pro)
    Emotiva XPA-1 x2 (L+R), XPA-100 (C), UPA-7 (surrounds)
    Oppo BDP-103D/BDP-83
    Toshiba HD-XA2
    Panamax M5410 Pro x2
    Polk LSiM707s, LSiC706, 80 F/X-LS, 65-RT
    Seaton Sound/MCCA MFW "Turbo" + custom Dayton SA1000 sub amp (orig. AV123 MFW-15)
    Velodyne SMS-1
    I/Cs: MP 12ga/4-cond (fronts); MP 12ga (surrounds), MP HDMI (all sources), some BJC sprinkled thruout
    Harmony Elite
    Salamander Triple 40 C/B

    * still need to sell older but mint gear!!
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited July 2010
    with music I found them bright & edgy at first. As they break-in they'll soften.

    Look for other threads I started to address other issues w/these other wise fine sounding speakers.
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • mak99
    mak99 Posts: 360
    edited July 2010
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    with music I found them bright & edgy at first. As they break-in they'll soften.
    Thanks - any thoughts on how long these need to be broken in? I could play the radio through them when we're away at work...
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    Look for other threads I started to address other issues w/these other wise fine sounding speakers.
    Wow, looks like you are really doing some neat mods! Personally, I'd be nervous to get into the cabinet as you are. I'll just hope that any brightness goes away after logging some hours...

    Good luck w/ your mods! Do you plan on posting pix on your other thread, showing how you're doing them?

    BTW, how do you like the CSi A6? I'm considering upgrading my CSi40 to the A6, if only to cosmetically match the A7's. The CSi40 works just fine, though...
    Main HT:
    JVC DLA-RS45
    135" Elite Screens fixed frame, 1.1 gain
    Marantz SR7007 (operating as pre-pro)
    Emotiva XPA-1 x2 (L+R), XPA-100 (C), UPA-7 (surrounds)
    Oppo BDP-103D/BDP-83
    Toshiba HD-XA2
    Panamax M5410 Pro x2
    Polk LSiM707s, LSiC706, 80 F/X-LS, 65-RT
    Seaton Sound/MCCA MFW "Turbo" + custom Dayton SA1000 sub amp (orig. AV123 MFW-15)
    Velodyne SMS-1
    I/Cs: MP 12ga/4-cond (fronts); MP 12ga (surrounds), MP HDMI (all sources), some BJC sprinkled thruout
    Harmony Elite
    Salamander Triple 40 C/B

    * still need to sell older but mint gear!!
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited July 2010
    mak99 wrote: »
    Thanks - any thoughts on how long these need to be broken in? I could play the radio through them when we're away at work...
    You'll notice them start to soften after 20-30 hours; the more dynamic the better. After about 100 they'll plateau.
    Wow, looks like you are really doing some neat mods! Personally, I'd be nervous to get into the cabinet as you are. I'll just hope that any brightness goes away after logging some hours......
    Thanks. It goes REAL slow working lots of OT & being the dad of 6: oldest approaching 15, youngest 12 weeks. The rest of the story is long & for another day. Curiousity drove me to take a look inside the closure and the XO. Can't recall if I've posted this: just below the mid port the A7 has bracing running around the cabinet. As an experiment I think I could sandwich the brace between 2 pieces of wood.
    Good luck w/ your mods! Do you plan on posting pix on your other thread, showing how you're doing them?
    I hadn't considered posting pix but I might if they'll help someone.
    BTW, how do you like the CSi A6? I'm considering upgrading my CSi40 to the A6, if only to cosmetically match the A7's. The CSi40 works just fine, though...
    I like it! My first center speaker. Unfortunately, nothing to compare with. It blends very well sonically w/the A7s.

    As a closing comment to this post: I'll call my system* finished when all channels are bi/tri-amped*. At the moment I have enough amps and EXOs to tri-amp the A7s and bi- the A6, but not the space. I expect to start buiding my new rack this weekend. Also shopping (ebay) for 1 more XL-280* to bi the rears. Crazy? Maybe. Overkill? depends who you talk to...
    * I've listed only the connected equipment in my system. I have 2 more XL-280s in storage
    ** all passive XO circuitry bypassed!
    Cheers tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited May 2011
    upgraded the wire between the mid/tweet BPs & their filtering to AR 12ga OFC

    upgraded the wire between the mid & its filter to 14 ga OFC

    removed the sub LP filtering
    upgraded the sub wire to 8 ga, this channel's subs connected to its own XL280 w/10 ga MC

    Currently evaluating with music. Modded channel's bass noticebly more percussive

    will use RTA this weekend for comparative readings & tune sub/mid balance
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • jbooker82
    jbooker82 Posts: 1,627
    edited May 2011
    I had mine modded by trey and it seem to take the edge or sharpness off the tweeters. I believed he used Clairty Cap PX's and ESA's, and Mills resistors. He made a thread in the DIY section.
    AVR: Onkyo Tx-NR808
    Amplifier: Carver A-753x 250 watts x 3
    Fronts: Polk RTI A7 (modded by Trey VR3)
    Center: CSI A4 (modded by Trey VR3)
    Rear: FXI A4
    Sub: Polk DSW Pro 660wi
    TV: LG Infinia 50PX950 3D
    Speaker Cable: AudioQuest Type 8
    IC: AudioQuest Black Mamba II
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited May 2011
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    upgraded the [internal] sub wire to 8 ga, this channel' s subs connected to its own XL280 w/10 ga MC
    ...Modded channel's bass* noticebly more percussive*

    interesting side notes to this fact*:
    2 XL280s driving the A7s in 2ch mode. Primary '280 driving both** channels**: 90+% rewired with heavier wire; heaviest grounding the driver boards & connecting the outputs to the BPs
    ** driving the modded channel's M & T & unmodded channel full range

    the other '280 (w/original wiring) driving the modded channel's subs.

    an ommission from post #38: XO'd about 150hz

    to jbooker82: after I complete my eval, I'll do the same mod to the other channel. After that, we'll be up to our eyeballs moving 2 counties away.

    After that, either I'll remove the mid/tweet filtering, install that divider to separate the mid from the subs in one channel, or most likely, like you Mortite the driver baskets. Then, like before, spend time evaluating.

    cheers tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited May 2011
    latest configuraton:
    Adjustable Mid HP output & frequency on both channels. XO'd about 150hz
    Adjustable sub output & frequency for the channel w/upgraded wire.

    My ear tells me the range just above the mid HP needs a little help.

    hope to get time to take RTA measurements later today.

    cheers tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited November 2016
    My sig tells part of the story - finally triamped the right channel 'A7. Here's a few pics:

    Like... new bigger BPs, less loss!
    eskp4x530wcm.jpg

    Or more BPs...
    hlxznk0x7ny4.jpg

    The mid & woofers finally isolated from each other. ku1hlbsrenu7.jpg

    First impression: love the cleaner upper mids & highs. Better defined thunderous lows.

    More later...

    Tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,381
    Tony, for the life of me I can't figure out what you did there to isolate the mid from the woofers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited November 2016
    Sorry Jesse, et al & thanks for bringing me down out of the clouds - oblivious to me only I know what the pic is. Pic taken from an upside down 'A7, looking in (& up) through the mid driver opening.

    Side note: Other channel unmodified making comparison easy.

    The cardboard tube is the mid driver port*. "Above" that,* the "experimental" divider. Nothing more than two 1/8" thick panels** sandwiching the internal rib/brace, held in place by friction & 2 wood screws. Black stuff is Armaflex. Between the panels, several smaller pieces of same** layered w/Armaflex. In spite of what might seem flimsy, it's quite solid.
    ** I cut an extra 1/8" wood template.

    If I decide I don't like the "sound," pop the mid* and, w/a shorty Phillips, it's out in minute. I would add something across the rib/brace instead.
    * held in by H-nuts & steel machine screws - thanks to Jesse's inspiration. See his "Fun w/ RTi A series Speakers" thread.

    If I do like it, I'll remove & disassemble the experiment. On one of the panels, trace the inside of the brace then transfer that to paper. Use that to carefully cut, sand, fit, & glue/screw/caulk a 1/2" thick plywood insert.

    Regardless I plan to have E-templates available upon request by PM.

    Hope this makes sense & helps to inspire. Tony

    PS: my apologies at attempts for using different font sizes to better express my self.
    Post edited by gp4jesus on
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,864
    edited November 2016
    Build detail omissions:
    1. in the 3rd pic that green-ish stuff is mineral wool.
    2. all internal wire soldered to the drivers
    3. Clarity Cap PX, 68uf DC blocking caps on tweeters
    4. @ the BPs inside, larger, thicker spade lugs crimped & soldered
    5. 8 gauge from amp to the 4 ohm woofers, now wired in parallel. (they come wired in series)

    Updated listening impressions: I aint lookin' back!

    Tip: Anyone considering triamping their 'A7s: you WILL need a LOT of "adjustability" between the mids & tweets... ....explained. To balance same - tweets @ -6dB; mids @ +6dB. Parasounds w/their adjustable inputs will help if your EXO falls short.

    Finally what will "knot up the knickers" of the "warm amp camp" for these and other RTiA series speakers: woofers between MINUS 4 to MINUS 5dB! I came to this conclusion w/the warmest amp on the left channel, the most neutral on the right. To be frank between the big cables and a Rotel RB-98X's 200WPC into 4ohms, I'm not surprised.

    Tony
    Post edited by gp4jesus on
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
    Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
    Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Phillips CD chgr, various game consoles

    Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside* & CC outside
    BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered

    LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged” Mids - 981
    CC: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6
    5 Subs: Sunfire True Sub Sig -> LFE & CC; 4 Audio Pro Evidence -> “Corners”
    Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
    Power Conditioning & Distribution:
    3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s