7.1 SYSTEM needs help and advice badly; SPEAKERS, reciever, AMP???

TOOdamnFRANK · June 2010

OK here's my current situation; I started to put together a 5.1 system that would eventually turn into a 7.1 system. I bought Monitor 60's for the front when they went on sale for $100 each, Monitor 50's for the side when they went on sale for $80, and a CS2 Center Channel with a PSW505 for the subwoofer at a general discount. Everything seemed perfect until NEWEGG put the Monitor 70's on sale for $150 each with $2.99 shipping last night! So I bought a pair. Now the Monitor 70's will be my front channel speakers, and then the questions / problems arouse...

#1) Do I move my Monitor 50's to the rear and the Monitor 60's to side channel, or do I use the Monitor 60's as rear and Monitor 50's as side??? AKA What speaker placement would you use with monitor 50, 60, and 70's in 7.1?

#2) Where do I find enough power for the Monitor 70's on my front channel at 275 watts? Or do I buy a 2 channel amp and add it to power my Monitor 70's? All the receivers I am looking at are around 135watts per channel.

#3) If I add an amp to my system to find the correct wattage going to the speaker would i combine the power rating from the amp with the power rating of my receiver, or would the speaker only get the watts/power from the amp? Im confused to if they both would power the speaker, or just the amp do the work.

#4) Anyone have suggestions for an amp or receiver that can power the monitor 70's? I am afraid if I underpower them I could damage them.

#5) Will I notice a difference between the 60's and 70's or am I a moron for buying them to replace my 60's? I was hoping the extra speaker and larger driver size might help with the mids and lows, but is it noticeable?

*sorry for all the noob questions, but this is my first time building my own system rather than buying a theater in a box setup and i wanted something nice. Originally I was buying soundcards for my gaming computer and none of them worked the way i wanted with windows 7 so i figured lets go all out and build something i can use for my pc, ps3, and home theater all at onces instead of having two separate 5.1 speaker setups. and ive been bit by the home audio bug it seems, now i just need to learn what im doing, so thanks in advance to anyone who can help me.

dane_peterson · June 2010

#1. I recommend you try both and decide which you prefer.

#2. What are you currently using to run your setup? Does your receiver have pre-outs?

#3. You don't need a specific amount of watts... simply, the more the better. If you used a 400watt amp, it'd sound better! If you run signal out from the receiver to an external amp, only the external amp's power would be used. (I remember asking that same question when I started here)

#4. Underpowering is definitely not a good thing... Pioneer's ICE amps have been incredibly well-received. Do a search.

#5. It's not going to be drastic. A lot of people have been excited over the price of the 70's lately... It might help with the lows a little, but your amp is going to be more of a determining factor than that.

Welcome to the Club!

TOOdamnFRANK · June 2010

thanks. i havent settled on a receiver yet, im probably going to be looking in the $700-$999 range as a max though. Thats the big reason I came here with all the questions. I wasn't sure if I would need an aftermarket amp or if a receiver would be enough to power my monitor 70s in the front.

So I'm guessing from that which you said, I should look into an external amp to add instead of using the receiver to power the front 2 speakers?

is something like an onkyo with 135 watts per channel enough to power a monitor 70 with a rating of 275 watts? or would this underpower it and eventually ruin the speaker?

If not, would you or anyone else know of a good website to find home audio amps or a suggestion into one that could power the monitor 70's? I seriously dont know home audio amp brands or models at all. a site with good prices would be preferred.

UGH SO MANY QUESTIONS. sorry for sounding like an idiot guys, but im a total newbie to this stuff, im a video game/computer guy and this is my first venture into home audio.

dane_peterson · June 2010

Your budget should be sufficient to get a receiver without requiring a separate amplifier. The Pioneer SC-05 would be a receiver that I'd take a HARD look at if I were you. If that is pushing it, the VSX-1120K would be another great option.

The power rating on your speakers is it's suggested maximum wattage. Don't worry about them too much... it rarely applies accurately.

If you're looking at the Onkyo 807, that's another viable option. You can always add an amp down the road if you deem it necessary, or if you get larger speakers.

www.crutchfield.com
www.amazon.com
www.shoponkyo.com
www.newegg.com

Of course, I always just google model #s to try and find the best price.

TOOdamnFRANK · June 2010

Thanks so much Dane. I think Im going to wait for the Onkyo 808, and buy one of those for the added HDMI1.4a and 3d ready-ness, sort of future proofing in case that craze takes off or see if that pioneer is on sale somewhere really cheap.

Just to clarify though; the 135 watts per channel on the Onkyo 808 is enough to power a monitor 70 even though its wattage is rated at 275 watts maximum?

Will I be under-powering it by only giving it almost half (135 / 275) of the maximum recommended power and risk hurting the speaker over time as a result? Sorry, I hate to keep asking but, I'm just scared I might hurt them if I under-power them. The 275 watt rating is a bit intimidating when all the receivers I look at have 100 to 135 watts per channel and this is my first time picking out my own components and am just learning the in's and outs.

Anyone have any idea as to what the ideal wattage is for a Monitor 70 set??? (in case i later decide to add an amp instead)

thanks again guys for helping me out without flaming me for being so new to the audio game.

dane_peterson · June 2010

The 808 will be a nice option.

Note that the Monitor 70s have a MINIMUM power rating of 20watts. You're far exceeding that, and therefore okay. Though 135w isn't probably the true wattage the Onkyo puts out, it will be more than sufficient for these speakers with no ill effects. If you ever choose to throw in an external amp, you will be rewarded with better sound. It's not a requirement, however.

cfrizz · June 2010

Nice work Dane. Welcome to Club Polki TDF!

Get the receiver that has all the bells & whistles that you want it to have including preouts for seperate amplification in the future.

As Dane says, receivers never put out the kind of power that they advertise, but until you get a powerful seperate amp, you just don't know what you are missing. Greater clarity, vocals, instruments, seperation & bass are the benefits of amplification.

I always recommend at least 200wpc @ 8ohms. This seems to be the point where almost everyone can hear a clear & distinct improvement.

Brands to look at new are Emotiva & Outlaw Audio.
Used brands to look at on Audiogon include, Parasound, Rotel, B & K, Sunfire, Nad, Adcom.

cheddar · June 2010

TOOdamnFRANK wrote: »

Just to clarify though; the 135 watts per channel on the Onkyo 808 is enough to power a monitor 70 even though its wattage is rated at 275 watts maximum? Will I be under-powering it by only giving it almost half (135 / 275) of the maximum recommended power and risk hurting the speaker over time as a result? Sorry, I hate to keep asking but, I'm just scared I might hurt them if I under-power them. The 275 watt rating is a bit intimidating when all the receivers I look at have 100 to 135 watts per channel and this is my first time picking out my own components and am just learning the in's and outs.

Matching min/max recommended speaker watts and stated receiver and amp watt outputs is pretty much useless as these two measurements can't really be matched in any meaningful way and are often more the result of marketing hype especially for AVRs.

The truth is that at 'normal' sane listening levels, speakers rarely see much more than 10 watts or so. And that is pretty loud. 100 watts in most systems and rooms is ear bleed loud. There may be brief periods during dynamic passages when channels may need a lot of watts, but 10-15 watts to an average speaker in an average room is already a lot.

So realistically, under normal circumstances, you will not be using anywhere near 275 watts even if you get a seperate amp rated for 1000 watts into 8 ohms. And receivers rated at 135 watts will most likely run out of gas way before they could reach 135 watts per channel as their specs are usually pumped up for marketing.

What seperate amplification does get you is lots of reserve power so that as you do reach the rated spec, the amp will not run out of gas and lose control of the signal like many receivers can. So if you're pushing an external amp rated at 200 watts per channel to 100 watts, it will keep on going. But a receiver rated at 100 watts may clip the signal because it's being pushed to its limits or worse, lose control of the signal, sending out uncontrolled distortion and frying your speaker's drivers (especially vulnerable are the tweeters).

So really any receiver (or even amplifier) can fry a speaker if it's pushed too far regardless of the watt rating. And under powering can be more dangerous than overpowering since weak receivers reach their limits pretty quickly. But a 1000 watt amplifier will be in control of the output through the entire range of what you might put average speakers in average rooms through even at ear bleed listening levels. For easy to drive speakers, a seperate amp with 100-200 watts per channel is usually plenty and more than a speaker usually sees on average. And as cfrizz states, you may hear audio quality benefits too. But for easy to drive speakers, even receivers that aren't rated at a speaker's 275 watts, say only a hundred or so, can safely drive them, if you don't intentionally go crazy with the volume dial.

7.1 SYSTEM needs help and advice badly; SPEAKERS, reciever, AMP???

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