Powerful Receiver or receiver and amp

polkfarmboy
polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
edited June 2010 in Electronics
My heads going to explode because I cant make my mind up on spending my money on a cheap avr like a yamaha for $300 and adding a cheap 3 or 5 ch amp or spending about $1000-1200 or so for a receiver
Post edited by polkfarmboy on
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,995
    edited June 2010
    HT or Music? Yamaha's are very bright to my ears.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2010
    HT only

    Only reason I thought of yamaha is the$300 price point
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,995
    edited June 2010
    Depending on what speakers your running I say buy a really nice receiver, and be happy.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2010
    My speakers are 6ohm martin logan source but they dip low at times and I am going to add 5 or 4 ohm surrounds at some point

    I f I bought a crap receiver I could always add a preamp to the existing amp . I always thought that a decent amp could smash a good receiver
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    Hasn't this question already been addressed in another thread?
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,068
    edited June 2010
    Go with a receiver plus an amp, given what your going to be driving.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited June 2010
    dane_peterson wrote: »
    Hasn't this question already been addressed in another thread?

    My thoughts also. PFB go for the SC-07 and be done with it.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1281231721&/Pioneer-SC07-thx-ultra-2-surro

    http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?rcvr71ch&1276020170&&&/-Pioneer-Elite-SC25-network-tr
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2010
    I have read some good reviews on the pioneer sc 07 but I keep thinking that when I add 2 pairs of 4ohm scripts it will fry any receiver I choose so alot of power is a waste if it isnt going to be clean

    Buying a lower budget receiver may be a good way to tide me by until I can afford to buy somthing like an anthem d2 or somthing else that gets released
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited June 2010
    Actually Mantis used the SC 07 to power a 4ohm load, suggest you read his review or shoot him a pm.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2010
    Thats interesting that the receiver can handle 4ohm

    Is there external ice amps on the used market ?

    I saw a thread here a while back about some but they looked like car amps ... I think they were called red dragon?
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2010
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    The SC-07 is a fine receiver, but with 4 ohm speakers, I would recommend and external amp.

    My LSi25's and RTi12's sound better powered by the Emotiva XPA-5 amp's compared to having them powered directly off the SC-07.

    Weird that an emo sounded better as they carry a very modist price tag

    Would a umc1 and emo amp sound better than a good receiver?
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited June 2010
    Red Dragon, D-Sonic, Wyred 4 Sound,Nu Force are a few that come to mind. I have a D-Sonic Magnum 1000S putting out 525wpc to my fronts. The amp performs very well, and sounds good.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • renowilliams
    renowilliams Posts: 920
    edited June 2010
    I would get the SC-07 and look for a reasonably priced used amp. IE Rotel.
    "They're always talking about my drinking, but never mention my thirst" Oscar Wilde


    Pre-Amp: Anthem AVM 20
    Amp: Carver TFM-35
    Amp: Rotel RB-870BX
    Fronts : SDA 1B w/ RDO-194s
    T.V.:Plasma TC-P54G25
    Bluray: Oppo BDP-93
    Speaker Cables: MIT Terminater
    Interconnect Cables:DH Labs Silver Sonic BL-1isonic
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,890
    edited June 2010
    You could just grab one of these and solve both problems... They are 4 ohm stable all day long.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1280866052&/Sunfire-TGR-3-Theater-Grand-Re
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • helipilotdoug
    helipilotdoug Posts: 1,230
    edited June 2010
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    You could just grab one of these and solve both problems... They are 4 ohm stable all day long.

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1280866052&/Sunfire-TGR-3-Theater-Grand-Re

    +1 on that sunfire. Just barely within your budget, and IMHO the best bang for the buck with what you are doing.
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's
    http://www.douglasconnection.com
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited June 2010
    +1,

    MLs....you definitely need a power amp. Above suggestions are welcome.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited June 2010
    I've said it before and I'll say it again... an HK AVR 254 (does it all) and the amp of your choice. Personally, I don't see the value in dropping a bunch of $$ on a HT AVR, only to bypass the internal amps for external. JMO. Good luck! :)

    PS - I'm sure there are similar options from other AVR manufacturers. This just happens to be what I use. YMMV.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,890
    edited June 2010
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again... an HK AVR 254 (does it all) and the amp of your choice. Personally, I don't see the value in dropping a bunch of $$ on a HT AVR, only to bypass the internal amps for external. JMO. Good luck! :)

    PS - I'm sure there are similar options from other AVR manufacturers. This just happens to be what I use. YMMV.

    There will be no reason to bypass the Sunfire...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited June 2010
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    There will be no reason to bypass the Sunfire...

    Agreed! If he wants to spend that much on an AVR.
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited June 2010
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    The HK 254 or the HK 354 are good choices considering the price you can get them for from the Harman ebay store. They don't have all the bells and whistles of the other brands, but they are solid performers.
    They are a very good match with the RTi series.

    Agreed. That's where I got mine, and those are the speakers I use.
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    My biggest beef with them is a lack of a speaker switch that other brands have. I like to be able to run speakers such as a surroundbar off the internal amps for general listening, as well as, run main speakers off external amps for serious listening. The HK 254 or 354 does not let you switch the internally powered speakers off.

    What? If you're talking about an A/B switch for different sets of speakers, yeah the HK models mentioned don't have them. I'd have no use for that feature anyhow. I have no idea what you mean by the last sentence. I've had 2 Yamahas and still have an Onkyo, and none of them allowed for me to "switch the internally powered speakers off." Please elaborate.
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited June 2010
    Sherardp wrote: »
    Red Dragon, D-Sonic, Wyred 4 Sound,Nu Force are a few that come to mind. I have a D-Sonic Magnum 1000S putting out 525wpc to my fronts. The amp performs very well, and sounds good.

    It would be interesting to hear the Peavey IPR 1600 digital amp compared to these.

    The IPR is based on a custom super mosfet design and clocks in at 8lbs.
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2010
    Sunfire doesnt have hdmi ....... I dont want and old fashioned hissy system
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  • dane_peterson
    dane_peterson Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2010
    So did you buy an AVR yet? :D
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,890
    edited June 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    Sunfire doesnt have hdmi ....... I dont want and old fashioned hissy system
    It does have HDMI video but not audio... anybody that has been here long enough already knows analog audio is better than digital.:p;):)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited June 2010
    I have read that formats like sacd sound marginally better when put through hdmi

    Another good thing is you dont have the clutter and expence of cables
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    My heads going to explode because I cant make my mind up on spending my money on a cheap avr like a yamaha for $300 and adding a cheap 3 or 5 ch amp or spending about $1000-1200 or so for a receiver

    You'll have to decide what type of person you are:
    1) Buy once and not even consider upgrading until years later
    2) Get yer feet wet and slowly (but surely) upgrade over time

    To me : cheap + cheap = cheap sound

    If it were my coin - I'd go with a good AVR to start - one that is rated well for features, sound, and power. That would serve well for the immediate future. So, if that means more coin - so be it.

    Then I would add an external amp later by looking for a good used deal.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • rmknotts123
    rmknotts123 Posts: 144
    edited June 2010
    Yamaha seems to make a pretty good receiver for the money. I have owned 2 yamaha receivers and they produce amazing power.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,890
    edited June 2010
    rmknotts123 wrote: »
    Yamaha seems to make a pretty good receiver for the money. I have owned 2 yamaha receivers and they produce amazing power.

    If you go Yamaha, stay in the RX-z range. From personal experience, anything in the v series will be about as bright as nails in a chalkboard.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • helipilotdoug
    helipilotdoug Posts: 1,230
    edited June 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    I have read that formats like sacd sound marginally better when put through hdmi

    Another good thing is you dont have the clutter and expence of cables

    This is taken from the OPPO BDP-83 owners manual:
    Due to bandwidth limitations, high resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus,
    Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be sent
    through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. A reduced resolution version of the
    same audio track will be output instead. To listen to high resolution audio formats in
    their best quality, please use the HDMI connection if you have a receiver that handles
    HDMI audio (see page 13) or use the multi-channel analog outputs if you do not (see
    page 14).
    • Due to copyright restrictions, SACD audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or
    optical digital audio output. To listen to SACD, please use the HDMI or analog audio
    connections.
    • Due to copyright restrictions and bandwidth limitations, full resolution audio from DVDAudio
    discs cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen
    to DVD-Audio in full resolution, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections.
    So the best way to go is either HDMI or analog. My system will not have HDMI going to the pre/pro so I'll be using 8 channel analog.
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's
    http://www.douglasconnection.com
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited June 2010
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    Weird that an emo sounded better as they carry a very modist price tag

    Would a umc1 and emo amp sound better than a good receiver?

    There has been a lot of performance problems with the UMC-1 that they are still working out. They are having problems with dropped audio, channels getting mixed up (surround channels playing what should be the main L/R and then the main L/R playing what is normally in the surround channels), ect. They are still working stuff out and I personally would wait.

    Mantis used a Pio to run the 4 ohm load and was ok doing so. There is a great price currently on a used SC-07
    http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?rcvr71ch&1281232291&&&/Pioneer-Elite-SC07-

    I would say get a decent AVR and then get a good power amp when you get a chance.
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