What's the lifespan of an amp?

kuntasensei · April 2010

I run a SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer, which is one of their older non-powered models. When I bought it, it was as a package with a Samson 1000 rackmount amp, which I now also use to power a Buttkicker LFE. The Samson has been running 24/7 for about 5 years now. Lately, it seems to be sounding... I guess "less controlled" is the best way I can say it. I'm also hearing its fans a lot more than usual, which means they probably need to be replaced.

Just wondering how long an amp typically lasts if run constantly, and what changes in sound would characterize it reaching its retirement age. Any info would be appreciated.

Face · April 2010

Pop the lid, maybe there's dust buildup inside.

kuntasensei · April 2010

I hose it out with canned air once a year or so. Doesn't seem to ever be excessively dusty inside, because I vacuum the front intake every time I dust my gear. I've just seen a lot about capacitors in amps going out over time, and with me literally never turning it off, I didn't know if that exacerbated its decline. Hurricane Katrina is the last time it was powered down, I think, and that was because we lost power.

It just doesn't have the tight sound it used to, if that makes any sense.

comfortablycurt · April 2010

Leaving it on 24/7 probably wouldn't really contribute to that. In many cases, leaving a solid state amp on all the time can actually extend it's lifetime...because the capacitors never fully discharge.

Is this possibly a simple case of upgradeitis?

Capacitors do age and fall out of spec over time...but that shouldn't be happening to a 5 year old amp.

kuntasensei · April 2010

It isn't upgradeitis, 'cause honestly I wouldn't even know what to replace this sucker with. Plus, my upgradeitis is currently focused solely on an Epson 8500UB. :P

hearingimpared · April 2010

I've found that leaving solid state gear on 24/7 extends the life of the gear. Are you sure there isn't something causing excessive heat build up as this would definitely shorten the life of solid state components. Perhaps a loose heat sink or one that isn't attached correctly?

Stating the obvious here but fans on the other hand I can see wearing out if left on all the time as they are mechanical devices.

kuntasensei · April 2010

hearingimpared wrote: »

I've found that leaving solid state gear on 24/7 extends the life of the gear. Are you sure there isn't something causing excessive heat build up as this would definitely shorten the life of solid state components. Perhaps a loose heat sink or one that isn't attached correctly?

Stating the obvious here but fans on the other hand I can see wearing out if left on all the time as they are mechanical devices.

I'll look and see if anything's loose. I'm just confused as to how different it sounds right now. I had kinda' noticed it off and on last week watching movies, so last night I threw on the SACD of Nickel Creek (which I'm very accustomed to hearing), and the bass is just sloppy and loose now. I tried checking my levels, disabling Audyssey, checking my distance/delays... and nothing in my system has changed recently.

billbillw · April 2010

There are so many variables, its nearly impossible to put a lifespan on an amp. It depends on temperature, load, cycling, and amp design. Typical capacitors are rated for 3000 hours at rated temp/voltage. Typical temp is 85C, voltage is usually spec'd about 10-15 volts over actual voltage. The closer you are to either, the sooner the cap will wear out. Some poorly designed amps run hotter, especially certain components like diodes, resistors and output transistors.

All that said, I would expect at least 10 years out of an amp, unless it is poorly designed, or driven very hard.

kuntasensei · April 2010

Well, I don't think it has been driven all that hard. The only time I've even seen the clip light is from the dinosaur part of the DTS demo disc. I normally listen at 10-15dB under reference, and I don't calibrate my sub hot. I even have the Buttkicker dialed way down so it just provides a little low-end fill, so it's not drawing that much. Room stays about 74dB year round, and it has always been kept in an open space. It has an ART-351 EQ sitting on top of it, but I put rubber feet to elevate it and isolate vibration.

So would the caps wearing out make it sound "loose" like I'm hearing? And if that's the case, does that pretty much mean it's time to find another amp?

hearingimpared · April 2010

kuntasensei wrote: »

Well, I don't think it has been driven all that hard. The only time I've even seen the clip light is from the dinosaur part of the DTS demo disc. I normally listen at 10-15dB under reference, and I don't calibrate my sub hot. I even have the Buttkicker dialed way down so it just provides a little low-end fill, so it's not drawing that much. Room stays about 74dB year round, and it has always been kept in an open space. It has an ART-351 EQ sitting on top of it, but I put rubber feet to elevate it and isolate vibration.

So would the caps wearing out make it sound "loose" like I'm hearing? And if that's the case, does that pretty much mean it's time to find another amp?

I had some caps go bad on a Phase Linear amp years ago and I got a sort of intermittent popping, motorboat sound.

As far as "another amp" goes, if the caps were found to be bad why not just replace them?

kuntasensei · April 2010

hearingimpared wrote: »

I had some caps go bad on a Phase Linear amp years ago and I got a sort of intermittent popping, motorboat sound.

As far as "another amp" goes, if the caps were found to be bad why not just replace them?

Uhm... I dunno. Never had to consider that before. Is there soldering involved?

Phil Dawson · April 2010

This may sound kind of dumb - but are you sure that the problem isn't with the buttkicker lfe? Do you have another amp you can do an AB with? Just a thought.
Good luck, Phil

kuntasensei · April 2010

Pretty sure it isn't the Buttkicker, as it doesn't come into play too much with music. It's the actual sound of the sub itself that seems different.

I'm gonna do some more investigating this week to see if I can figure out what's going on. I guess I wouldn't be shocked if the amp is reaching its end, 'cause during the time I've had it, I've gone through two projectors... each with two bulbs run to their limits, so that's some 12,000 hours of use. (Wait... maybe I've had this thing longer than 5 years. Crap.)

Phil Dawson · April 2010

Sorry - I thought the buttkicker was the sub. As I see it you have 3 components in your chain. 1-the source 2-the amp and 3-the sub. I may have missed a component if so add it in. The problem could be with any of the 3 and you have decided on the amp just because it is old. I run 7 different amps in my system-see below-that probably have as much time on them as you amp does and they haven't "worn out". I really think you should check all of the components in the chain before you start replacing gear.
Good luck, Phil

SRS-SDA Front
2 cs400i Center
SRS-SDA Rear
Shure 12in sub
B&K ref 10 pre-pro upgr to ref 50
Techniques 1200 TT
Mac MR71 Tuna
Lexicon rt-20 uni player
HK citation pre for TT
2 PSE Studio Mono Blocks
4 PSE Studio Stereo Amps
1 Mac 2100 Amp for sub

Phil Dawson · April 2010

Oops - I resubmitted the same message
Sorry, Phil

kuntasensei · April 2010

Gotcha, Phil. I'm gonna give Audyssey another run-through this weekend and see if it's just some bizarre equalization problem, though nothing has changed in my system. I'm running all HDMI to my Onkyo 1007, single sub out to ART-351 EQ (using only as a subsonic filter), then to the Samson 1000 which is set to send the same feed to the SVS 20-39CS+ and the Buttkicker. We'll see what happens. Thanks for helping me noodle it through that. It's definitely confusing.

Phil Dawson · April 2010

If I've got this right you are sending the same feed to 2 diff subs? If so you might try unhooking one of them then the other. If you are running two you might be getting some phase cancellation problems.Let us know how it comes out.
Good luck, Phil

kuntasensei · April 2010

The Buttkicker's not a sub. It's a tactile transducer under the couch, so no risk of phase cancellation. The SVS is intentionally wired out of phase (i.e. red to black, black to red because I don't have a phase control) because that gave me the smoothest pre-equalization transition from mains to sub.

kuntasensei · April 2010

I was planning on re-running Audyssey in my room today anyway because I angled my center channel up a bit, so I yanked all my cables and re-ran everything while I was at it. Not sure if something was loose or what, but my sub has come back to life. So I guess the amp is just fine. I also hosed it out with canned air while I had everything apart, though there wasn't much dust in there.

Watched Minority Report on Blu-ray after I got everything set back up, and all the punch the SVS had before is back. I wonder if the cables just needed to be re-seated, considering I haven't unhooked the EQ and amp for some time.

Either way, crisis averted. Thanks to all for the advice!

Sherardp · April 2010

Face wrote: »

Pop the lid, maybe there's dust buildup inside.

+1 as I was thinking this when reading the op.

lanchile · April 2010

Well design amps and using good parts can last at least 20 years. a friend of mine build one almost 20 years ago and last year he just replace a pilot lamp. it is all in the design, now it is all business!.
The best way to make sure you have a good reliable amp is build it yourself!;)

By the way, a good amp will never need a fan to cool off, I never use or need a fan to cool off my amps that I build, even if I push them to the limit. Sometimes simpler is better!

Phil Dawson · April 2010

Rule #1 when trouble shooting. CHECK YOUR CABLES. This is easy to ignore but more times than not it solves the problem. I'm glad everything is running well again.
Good Luck, Phil

What's the lifespan of an amp?

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