Bob Carver still working?

Bernal wrote: »

"... You need to go out and listen to other powerful amps and listen to what the differences are...."

Ok.
For example, names of amplifier should I listen?
I want to learn about the topic.

My friend, the whole world of Hi-Fi awaits you to experience and listen to.

www.audiogon.com is your portal to try a few Hi-Fi pieces for a lot cheaper.

I don't want to name what amplifiers you should try because you'll think that I am picking on SunFire.

But if you insist to know the names, I could name many Hi-Fi amplifiers from many makers and it'll probably not end. I know some very rare ones which can't be bought even even if you want to.

Bernal wrote: »

I remember the following quote:

"...The essence of design is control. The objet trouve may have its attractions, but the greatest accomplishments of art, science, or craftsmanship are accessible only to those who control their medium completely. Raphael's School of Athens could not have arisen as street art. The Beethoven Ninth Symphony could not have been improvised by an inexperienced amateur. Amplifier "design by listening" is a charming phrase, seeming to combine the process and the goal. But the charm is meretricious if it amounts to some "audiophile designer" wandering around in an electronic parts house sticking resistors, capacitors, and tubes or transistors together, hoping for some magical sound. That won't work. "You have to know what you are doing" is the motto behind real accomplishment.

When it comes to amplifiers, few others know what they are doing as well as Bob Carver..."

To complete that quote:

"When it comes to amplifiers, few others know what they are doing as well as Robert Carver. Whatever one thinks of the Carver challenge, where Carver claimed to be able to duplicate the sound of any amplifier (within power limitations) by modifying the circuit of one of his own, the very fact that he could get close proves a point: He can control the sound of his amplifiers to an extraordinary, perhaps a unique, extent. (Personally, I believe that he can do what he claimed, at least so nearly that the differences are unimportant. But that is beside the point here.)

When you listen to a Carver1 amplifier, you are listening to the sound Carver intended. I am not familiar in any detail with earlier Carver designs. But, to go straight to the point, the Sunfire is among the best of amplifiers. Never mind the reasonable price, nor the absurd question that has preoccupied some reviewers of whether Carver is a true High End designer-as if that were some mystic priesthood-nor the fact that the Sunfire is enormously powerful, which to some implies automatically, in a vast misunderstanding of how things work, a lack of refinement. The Sunfire stands in the top ranks, defying all such preconceptions.

In the realm of would-be ultimate amplifiers, there are the eccentric absurdities, the micro-watt single-ended triodes with their 8 ohm output impedances, that function as a combination of harmonic distortion generators and tone controls, much beloved of those discontented with the sounds actually recorded. Then there are serious attempts, both tube and solid-state, at accurate reproduction of the input signal. Many of these work very well indeed and come close to or even get to being good enough, given how bad speakers and source material are.

It is a curious, but not inexplicable, fact that these latter do not sound precisely alike. Much of the variation among them is attributable to what amounts to a choice of electronic parameters. As I shall discuss momentarily, a modicum of signal alteration is bound to occur, and choices arise from the type of signal alteration chosen. To my ears, the parameter choices of the Sunfire are highly consonant with music. In any case, such choices have relatively small musical impact. More to the point, the intrinsic behavior of the Sunfire, outside such more or less arbitrary and unimportant choices, is superior to virtually all others.

You can spend more money. Depending on your personal preferences and your speaker system, you might find an amplifier that sounded better to you. But you can't buy an amplifier that is demonstrably better, and you will have a hard time finding one that is as demonstrably good. Moreover, to my ears, you will even have a hard time finding one that sounds better even in that evanescent realm of personal preferences based on parameter choices. The Sunfire certainly stands in my own personal top echelon. Given this situation and the price of the Sunfire, it seems fair to say that the Sunfire redefines the situation of audio amplification. As of now, we have a whole new ballgame."

Taken from this review: http://www.regonaudio.com/Sunfire.html

Bernal wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.
I have a McIntosh in my stereo system but it is another world and a very different category.
I also have the MBL-8011AM amplifier and is excellent.
I like Sunfire ... has something special

It's fine if you like SunFire! I know I like SunFire (and Carver) too. It's just that I like some other amps better than SunFire and Carver.

But why you said McIntosh and MBL is in different Category. What kind of different Category? I am curious what you heard the differences are.

chargerman426 wrote: »

Mark your an POS (:)) for even thinking that the man the myth the legen that is Bob Carver is a douchebag. He is the smartest man in HiFi. Bob was also looking in and helping Rita.

Hardly.........one of the better audio/guru designers...........but the smartest in HiFi now or then??? Hardly

H9

megasat16 wrote: »

SunFire Guys,

If power and bang for the bucks is all you want, may be SunFire is the amp for you. But let's don't joke about it. SunFire is in the blink of chapter 11 if it's Top Rank.

I think EMO is bang for the buck, Sunfire is light years better than that IMHO, but there is much better gear out there beyond Sunfire. The question for me is can you do better for less than the cost of your left nut:)....

Bernal wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.
I have a McIntosh in my stereo system but it is another world and a very different category.
I also have the MBL-8011AM amplifier and is excellent

Everyone seems to some degree get caught up in a Name brand and it being being better or worse than something else, both Carver and McIntosh have made many different products SS and tube amps pre's and the like some were/are better than others. I have heard Sunfire amps that I liked better than some McIntosh amps and im sure there are amps made by McIntosh that I would like better than Sunfire and some tube amps made by Carver that I would like better.

There is no one genius that stands out amongst all others in the audio world lots of different people have contributed many different things.


The 300 x 2 and 600 x 2 amps are hard to beat in their price range. Are there better products availabe? yes. Are there worse things one can buy for the same money? yes.



REGARDS SNOW

If you wanna know what Mr Carver is doing, just get your A$$ to North Carolina in September and you can ask him personaly.I'm sure that he would be happy to talk amplifier design or anything else for that matter.

I have nothing against Bob personally, he's a very innovative and passionate designer/audio guru. I have never really cared for any of his SS designs. Certainly nothing horrible just nothing that really stood out, IMO. As for the amp challenge...........there are passionate, accurate arguments for both sides.

I LOVE the fact that Bob is still doing stuff and attends audio meets and still has a passion for this hobby and is willing to share, discuss and educate others.

My earlier comments were directed at a couple of specific statements others made, not necessarily to deride Bob Carver on the whole.

H9

TNRabbit wrote: »

The company being close to chapter 11 or not has nothing to do with the quality of the sound...??

I'm not saying it's the best of the best, but I don't think it's the upper end of mid-fi, either.

The company being chapter has nothing to do with the sound quality. I was saying if it's making top rank amp for the cost of bang for the buck, it's a bit impossible to be near chapter 11? But again, it's hard to say in this Economy and any company can go belly up.

I am also not saying it's sounds worse or bad of any kind but just pointing out to Bernal that SunFire is not among top rank. I know SunFire amps don't sound bad. They are not the best either. I think it's the higher end in the entry level and the guys I know on Agon considered the same too. That's all I was saying too. But if you consider the power output for top ranking, it could probably be one in that area.

tonyb wrote: »

You need cheaper nuts then.

I never priced my nuts.... how much is 15 pounds of solid gold going for these days.:D


I know what you are saying bro... In this example the comparison would best be getting 90% of a Ferrari's performance for the price of a Corvette.

Bernal wrote: »

Ok, and the MBL-8011AM ....

Some people say MBL to be one of the top ranking in HiFi. But I have no experience with MBL amps so I can't comment whether MBL is top ranking or not.

But how does it sound compared to SunFire? You have both so you must know what sounds better.