Question: Seperates vs. Reciever
Comments
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sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »I still rock my pop's old Pioneer sx-636 for 2ch music in my bedroom, thing is a beast and still sound's pretty damn good!
If you got the cash to spend on a receiver the higher end Yammies are not bad at all and sound totally different than the "entry" model's
There is nothing wrong with the model i own 
It's built like a tank, has more feature's than i know what to do with (quite a bit for it's price range as well TBH), plenty of power (for an AVR), sleek look's and it's easy to use
I see there is still the usual CP trolling here, it's so sad. Seriously....
why bring it back up if your not trolling?Joe, that's what he does. And he has the nerve to call other long time members trolls :rolleyes:
H9sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »:rolleyes: Really? NO NOT REALLY I aint that pathetic. :cool:
You guy's always post some ignorant little remark then when someone respond's to your stupidity/call's you out you deny everything, form a mini lynch mob and then call them a troll? Y'all need to put the pipe down and have a look at yourselve's/reality. Being delusional is the first sign of mental illness ROTFLMFAO
So sad, so, so sad....
I see your point H9 -
Guys, please relax.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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I think we were talking about the benefits of separates vs. receivers here right?
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I started out with separates, went to a receiver, now I'm back to separates which is where I'm going to stay.
While receivers do offer a lot at a cheaper price than separates, they have to take too many shortcuts to get everything into one box.
The main shortcut they take is in the power, and without decent power driving your speakers, then you are missing out on what your speakers are truly capable. I wonder how many upgraded thinking their speakers were crap when the fault really belonged on the receiver.
But then again, most don't have any clue about what good sound is & simply want loud & convenient.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
Many of us are using receivers with pre-amp outputs. Haven't modern AVR's caught up to the point where for low to mid level 2ch or HT applications they remain the best choice considering performance, quality and price over a separate preamp/processor.
Modern AVR's have far surpassed separate pre-pros as HT controllers since HDMI arrived. Look at all the higher end pre's from NAD, B&K, Cary, Classe, etc. All have major operational bugs. They may have great sound, but what good is that if they won't work correctly?
Although I am still holding out hope for Parasound, you would think they would have released something by now, but they are years behind the Japanese manufacturers. -
Many of us are using receivers with pre-amp outputs. Haven't modern AVR's caught up to the point where for low to mid level 2ch or HT applications they remain the best choice considering performance, quality and price over a separate preamp/processor.
No not really, they are a good economical alternative to a dedicated pre/pro but they will never perform up to the std of a good pre/pro.
More people are willing to take the short cut and go with a receiver for HT because it makes more sense and costs less. If I ever do an HT, I will be using a receiver but then it will only be for watching movies and I don't need a killer HT when I already have a killer 2-ch rig.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
There are more than a handful of AVR's capable of running a full blown HT. I'd put my recently sold B&K up against most psuedo-seperates rig any day.
I guess you just haven't owned the right gear Heiney9.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
You're right I have never dabbled in HT or HT receivers. And I would take any of the HT receiver mentioned in this thread for a full blown HT rig. But not for a 2 ch rig or for serious music listening.
My point I guess was that if you really want a balls to the wall the HT, separates (atleast amps) is the way to go. I think it's a bit of a waste of money to buy a TOTL AVR just to run as a processor.
But again I admit to not really having looked into a full blown cutting edge HT system.
FWIW
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
I use an NAD T765 receiver for HT and it combined with the powered subs in my RT2000ps rattle the house. However for two channel a receiver just doesn't cut it. I've been using separates for two channel since 1979.
Cathy I found the reference to eggplant in the previous posts humorous and saw it as a joke. Stillearning being the wise-guy noob fanboy took offence to the joke and as usual found it offensive and decided to do what he always does and start up trouble which I found unnecessary. Just look at his reply how he hurls insults aimed at the establishment. Plus making fun of mental illness.
Sorry Mark, I had to explain myself. -
Couple of reasons for seperates:
1. Generally better fidelity, as the manufacturer can focus on a single aspect. It's difficult to put all top-notch components into a workable single chasis (integrated), without it being the size of a mini-fridge.
2. Flexibility. You like Carver amps, but prefer adcom preamps
3. Upgradeability of just certain pieces; you like you're pre, but want to try a different amp. You want to mix tubes and ss; etc...
Ah, I see in plain english....lolHome:
Onkyo TX-6500MKII/Polk LSI 9's (A)Polk TSi 100(B)/Polk PSW 10/Onkyo C-S5VL/Technics SL-QD33
Home 2 (Playback):
Dynaudio BM5A MKII/Dynaudio SUB 250MC/Audigy 2 ZS
College:
JBL LSR 2325P/JBL 2310SP/MOTU UltraLite MKIII -
So going from this how does a Harman Kardon HK-3390 rank as a pre-amp compared to a seperate $200 preamp.Home:
Onkyo TX-6500MKII/Polk LSI 9's (A)Polk TSi 100(B)/Polk PSW 10/Onkyo C-S5VL/Technics SL-QD33
Home 2 (Playback):
Dynaudio BM5A MKII/Dynaudio SUB 250MC/Audigy 2 ZS
College:
JBL LSR 2325P/JBL 2310SP/MOTU UltraLite MKIII -
You're right I have never dabbled in HT or HT receivers. And I would take any of the HT receiver mentioned in this thread for a full blown HT rig. But not for a 2 ch rig or for serious music listening.
My point I guess was that if you really want a balls to the wall the HT, separates (atleast amps) is the way to go. I think it's a bit of a waste of money to buy a TOTL AVR just to run as a processor.
But again I admit to not really having looked into a full blown cutting edge HT system.
FWIW
H9
I agree, as I wouldn't call any of them ready for critical listening but then again, we're not the average user. If my 2CH rig was on the same price and detail level as my HT, it would probably be comparable in every way but it isn't. I've spent way more time and effort on the 2CH rig than the HT.
That doesn't mean my HT sucks, it's as balls to the wall as it has to be without being a waste of resources. You certainly know how to pick gear so why wouldn't you have a killer HT?CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
hearingimpared wrote: »I use an NAD T765 receiver for HT and it combined with the powered subs in my RT2000ps rattle the house. However for two channel a receiver just doesn't cut it. I've been using separates for two channel since 1979.
Cathy I found the reference to eggplant in the previous posts humorous and saw it as a joke. Stillearning being the wise-guy noob fanboy took offence to the joke and as usual found it offensive and decided to do what he always does and start up trouble which I found unnecessary. Just look at his reply how he hurls insults aimed at the establishment. Plus making fun of mental illness.
Sorry Mark, I had to explain myself.
Joe, having the same NAD T765 receiver, my findings are the exact opposite of yours. You are correct that in full blown HT mode it is a real brute. But when it's called on for more delicate two channel listening, it performs as well as any separate preamp that I've owned. NAD realy does come thru with their "Music First" philosophy in their AVR designs. I would love to compare other separate preamps to the NAD but at this present time I don't really see the need to. Speakers, the room, room treatments, equipment & cable synergy play a huge part in the final listening experience. Remember, the best preamp...is no preamp. No extra flavoring of the music in my house."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
pearsall001 wrote: »Joe, having the same NAD T765 receiver, my findings are the exact opposite of yours. You are correct that in full blown HT mode it is a real brute. But when it's called on for more delicate two channel listening, it performs as well as any separate preamp that I've owned. NAD realy does come thru with their "Music First" philosophy in their AVR designs. I would love to compare other separate preamps to the NAD but at this present time I don't really see the need to. Speakers, the room, room treatments, equipment & cable synergy play a huge part in the final listening experience. Remember, the best preamp...is no preamp. No extra flavoring of the music in my house.
Fact is Phil I have a separate two channel rig and although I think my HT kicks **** the speakers are no where nears as good for music as yours are. I need to hear your rig again since your overhaul to make any judgement call on the NAD as a preamp. However, I can't see it beating out the CJ pre you had. That thing just was very sweet. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Fact is Phil I have a separate two channel rig and although I think my HT kicks **** the speakers are no where nears as good for music as yours are. I need to hear your rig again since your overhaul to make any judgement call on the NAD as a preamp. However, I can't see it beating out the CJ pre you had. That thing just was very sweet.
Joe, after the holiday's, get your arse up here for a listen. I quarantee you'll leave with a whole new perspective on how good a little 'ole AVR can perform in both a HT & two channel system. And you are correct the CJ was one sweet piece but not missed at all. You'll see...I mean hear!!!
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
I like having a hi-end AVR as a pre. I believe in good sound and having damn near the best at what I can afford to spend. Having the SC-07 as pre maybe a waste but to my ears I think an overkill HT is awesome. I'm sure I could get buy with just the 07 running everything, but I will keep my amps in place and rock on. I'd probably sell them though if one of you bought me an SC-09.Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!
Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580 -
IMO, seperates are always better unless you are on a budget or don't have space.
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So going from this how does a Harman Kardon HK-3390 rank as a pre-amp compared to a seperate $200 preamp.
I have the same question. I'm using a HK 3490 as a pre with an Adcom 555 to drive a pair of A9's for strictly 2 channel listening. Been wondering for months if I go with say an Adcom GFP 565 if I would notice much of an improvement. I enjoy my music pretty loud if that makes any difference.2 channel
Vandersteen 3a sigs
McCormick 225
Vincent SAT-1 tube pre
Cambridge 650 c
HSU VTF-15H sub -
IMO, seperates are always better unless you are on a budget or don't have space.
I take it that your opinion was formed by actually listening to an AVR & separates set up at the same time in your system? I love it when guys have opinions based on no listening criteria."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
