Adcom vs Parasound vs Emotiva vs Sunfire vs Outlaw?

maandjojo · October 2009

I had been an Adcom fan for many years and still like them, but since getting the signature sunfire 400 x 5 I won't go back. Now it wasn't an apples to apples comparison, the Adcom was 200 wpc but the sound you get is still going to be different.

Joe
'

digitalvideo · October 2009

cfrizz wrote: »

You should be powering ALL your 7 speakers with the 7 channel Sunfire. That is the whole point of having an amp that you can hook all your speakers to.

Most people don't consider the back speakers as being important enough to amp. I totally disagree with that assessment. ALL speakers sound better when powered to their full potential.

So unhook whatever speakers are hooked up to the receiver & attach them to the Sunfire. Recalibrate & enjoy.

And unless you intend to buy more speakers & amps to put around the rest of the room for the realism of an actual movie theater, enjoy what you have because the post above is more accurate of what is truly achievable in the home theater environment.

Even if you did wire your home that way, there isn't any DVD that could utilize it.

If I unhook all speakers from the reciever and attach them to the Sunfire amp then what will the reciever do then? If nothing then did I waste my money on the reciever?

Also, could the so-called "tube affect" that Sunfire's are known for be giving me a different hearing sensation than a typical HT should for movies that I'm not accustomed to? This is just a guess and speculation because the Sunfire is the only amp I ever owned, but I read and hear a lot of people that tube affect they either like or dislike and could my own ears just not like that tube affect that comes naturally to people who notice it?

digitalvideo · October 2009

LandShark wrote: »

This set-up is exactly what I hope to end with after my upgradeitus. One question, how awesome is that SVS sub? What other subs have you had and how much better did this sub work for you? thanks...

Samsung Ln550 LCD TV
Polk monitor 70 mains
Polk CS2 center
Polk OWM3 surrounds
VRP1200 and VRP1000 subs
Sony BDP S350
Onkyo TX705 receiver

My sub is great, I notice it, it is powerful. It's not the ultimate sub out there, from reading different publications and shootout tests there are many better ones like the Elemental Designs A7-900 and Epik Conquest.

Best sub companies for best bang for the buck that offer great performance that rivals more expensive companies and models sort of like what Oppo and Polk do is AV123 and Elemental Designs. The Elemental Designs A5-350 sub is better than my SVS PB-12 Ultra and I would have gotten two of those over my SVS if I heard about them before I bought my SVS. Go with the Elemental Designs A5-350. Same with everyone else.

This link below is a great comparison and shootout test among all the subs.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

digitalvideo · October 2009

Actually I would have gotten the AV123 MFW-15 which is better than the Elemental Designs A5-350. I would go with the AV123 MFW-15 if I were you which I should have done.

Toolfan66 · October 2009

digitalvideo wrote: »

If I unhook all speakers from the reciever and attach them to the Sunfire amp then what will the reciever do then? If nothing then did I waste my money on the reciever?

Also, could the so-called "tube affect" that Sunfire's are known for be giving me a different hearing sensation than a typical HT should for movies that I'm not accustomed to? This is just a guess and speculation because the Sunfire is the only amp I ever owned, but I read and hear a lot of people that tube affect they either like or dislike and could my own ears just not like that tube affect that comes naturally to people who notice it?

You will need the interconnect's (IC's) to hook up your receiver to your amp. No you did not waste your money on the receiver it is a fantastic receiver.

Your receiver will still do all the decoading needed to get the best video and audio. the amp is going to bring your speakers to life. Give it a shot it's the only way to learn and know for yourself if you like it or not.

My guess is you will love it.

Like cfrizz said you will need to Recalibrate your system with the MCACC.

Peace.

speakergeek · October 2009

heiney9 wrote: »

Emo is an entry level amp. Compared to many other entry level amps they come up short, IMO. They are good for HT. Anyone who wants to know why I don't care for Emo can do a search as I've done a couple write-ups from a recent comparison.

H9

IMO, the only thing "entry level" about the XPA-5 is its price. It is obvious that you don't like Emotiva there.

Toolfan66 · October 2009

speakergeek wrote: »

IMO, the only thing "entry level" about the XPA-5 is its price. It is obvious that you don't like Emotiva there.

It is entry level, and it is a great amp for HT. with saying this it is a bang for the buck amp for HT. I have the XPA-3 in my HT and it does the job for what i need there.

I tried the XPA-2 in my 2 channel setup and hated it. I had it a week and went with the Adcom 5802. Hell my Adcom 585 was better then the XPA-2.

When I get back into my HT rig the Emo will be the first to go.

speakergeek · October 2009

To say an amp is only good for HT is simply rediculous.

jimmydep · October 2009

I like my Emotiva, and I have a Sunfire and a vintage Marantz amp that I am constantly swapping out, so I have a direct comparison. All 3 are very good amps, each with a distinct sound of their own, I just happen to prefer the Emo with my LSI's.

Let your own ears be the judge...everyone has an opinion, your's is the only one that matters.

Enjoy the music!

Jimmy

Systems · October 2009

jimmydep wrote: »

Let your own ears be the judge...everyone has an opinion, your's is the only one that matters.

Bingo.

speakergeek · October 2009

jimmydep wrote: »

I like my Emotiva, and I have a Sunfire and a vintage Marantz amp that I am constantly swapping out, so I have a direct comparison. All 3 are very good amps, each with a distinct sound of their own, I just happen to prefer the Emo with my LSI's.

Let your own ears be the judge...everyone has an opinion, your's is the only one that matters.

Enjoy the music!

Jimmy

Yep!:)

cfrizz · October 2009

digitalvideo wrote: »

If I unhook all speakers from the reciever and attach them to the Sunfire amp then what will the reciever do then? If nothing then did I waste my money on the reciever?

Also, could the so-called "tube affect" that Sunfire's are known for be giving me a different hearing sensation than a typical HT should for movies that I'm not accustomed to? This is just a guess and speculation because the Sunfire is the only amp I ever owned, but I read and hear a lot of people that tube affect they either like or dislike and could my own ears just not like that tube affect that comes naturally to people who notice it?

Your receiver will still be doing all the decoding & processing for music & movies, so it will not be going to waste.

There are 3 sets of connectors on your Sunfire. Current source, Voltage source, and XLR source. The current source is supposed to be the one to approximate a tube sound. I've heard tubes & am not interested so I use the Voltage source.

Connect all 7 of your speakers to the appropriate Voltage sources. You will need 7 IC's to to into one of the 2 top connectors on the right hand side of the amp. The other ends go into the correct preout inputs for each channel on the receiver end. Recalibrate all speakers & enjoy.

Do you have the owners manual for the Sunfire? If so, just read it and follow the instructions it's quite easy. If not you can download it from Sunfire's website. www.sunfire.com You can get IC's from Blue Jeans cable: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm Or Monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803

Oh Yeah, PLEASE make sure everything is turned off & unplugged while you are making the connections.

Toolfan66 · October 2009

speakergeek wrote: »

To say an amp is only good for HT is simply rediculous.

With my experiance that is the way it is, It may not be for some and that is fine. it's yours or their system that sounds good to you or them. for me it did not work in my 2 channel setup. maybe i needed a emotiva pre to match it with, I will never know as I will not buy one. Like I said I am happy with the XPA-3 in my HT for now. But I do know now that there is better amps. I am not saying they suck, they do the job for what it is.

When I got the XPA-2 I had high hopes that it would kick my ****,,, Not the case for me.

So if you find it rediculous (i am sure you mean ridiculous) then so be it.

Toolfan66 · October 2009

jimmydep wrote: »

I like my Emotiva, and I have a Sunfire and a vintage Marantz amp that I am constantly swapping out, so I have a direct comparison. All 3 are very good amps, each with a distinct sound of their own, I just happen to prefer the Emo with my LSI's.

Let your own ears be the judge...everyone has an opinion, your's is the only one that matters.

Enjoy the music!

Jimmy

Agreed!!!!:cool:

speakergeek · October 2009

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

So if you find it rediculous (i am sure you mean ridiculous) then so be it.

I meant laughable....:p

heiney9 · October 2009

speakergeek wrote: »

I meant laughable....:p

Those that don;t know; don;t know that they don't know. Nothing ridiculous or laughable about Emo being an HT amp. It is what it is and until you experience something higher up the chain will you realize how rediculous [sic] your statement is.

That being said, enjoy your system that's what it's all about.

H9

wingnut4772 · October 2009

I have a Parasound 5250. I can only comapre it to the Outlaw on the list and it's a superior amp. It's also better than my former Earthquake Cinenova.

olilugo · October 2009

digitalvideo wrote: »

Thank you for this post, this gives a little more perspective.

I'm trying to get as close an effect to a movie theater as possible in my room, but of course my city's theater as around 7 speakers on each side wall. In the theater you can hear a loud gun shots from the sides and rear and my speakers sound muffled like a large object is in front of it. I turn up the volume and I get hit hard with the fronts and bass but I can't get the sides and rears to give me a true 7.1 surround sound consistantly. I play with the volume it's hard recreate an accurate sound from what the movie's soundtrack is offering. I have had people comment that when we were watching Master And Commander on bluray that they feel it was a little weak and I know watching Master And Commander in the theater that it has amazing sound especially the scene when the French ship fires it's cannon balls into Russell Crowe's ship and the splinters explode every where and it's suppose to hear that from all angles but it was coming up weak on my system, so I turn up the volume and I'm hearing way too much from the front and it's drownded out the sides and rear. When it comes to movie scenes inside a house during a conversion in the movie and a door opens and closes in the movie I am not picking up sounds which I should be hearing.

I'm not looking for a constant in your face explosion from all 7 speakers, I went with Polk because I heard the Klipsch were too bright and too piercing, so brightness isn't what I want, what I'm trying to get is accuracy, realism.

I think what is limiting my speakers from their true potential is not having a pre/pro, also my reciever is powering all 7 speakers and I was told earlier to let the reciever power the sides only or the fronts only?

So let the Sunfire amp power all 7 speakers, and the side speakers powered by the reciever? Or do I let the amp power the fronts and rears only and the reciever power the sides only?

If I can set my current system up properly I think I can hear a difference expecially with a pre/pro added in. I don't know if I meant I want it to sound "better" what I mean is wanting more specific detail and an accurate "portrayal" of what each scene is because these newer movie sound tracks offer you excellent sound, you just got to try to exploit it.

How about a picture of yur system showing your speakers and the distance between your speakers and the sitting position.

On another note, I think you are hitting the upper end of what is capable on your speakers. I can tell you I was looking to immitate the same setup, after all in my mind if you aer building a HT then it is reasonable to you will try to get as close or better than your local cinema.

Next thing you will hear is that the cinema setup is way more advance, that they use propietary Bryston amplifers and that the speakers are built and setup specifically for HT, that they use high grade room accustics adjustments and so on.

I would say, yes that is all right and everything you do is incremental. I would suggest get yourself to demo a different set of of fronts or surround. whatever you think is the weakest link, even outside polk. I think all speakers manufactures have the same sound signature even on different leves of speakers.

Meaning you might try getting rti's of lsi's but Polk's sound signature is always there. That is way I think you should explore outside polk. If find yourself comming back to polk then you know you arrived.

Also keep in mind the price points, there is no need to compare a $6k to a $2K setup. there is a reason why one is more than the other. you can compare them and you might even like the $6K, but then you have to ask yourself are you ready to put down that kind of money, if not then you will also know you have arrived.

good luck,

sTiLlLeArNiNg · October 2009

I'm no expert but i think there is a lot to be had in placement and proper calibration

IMHO you have a VERY nice system and you should not be wanting more. I would try some better placement and proper calibration, maybe some better IC's and speaker wire?

It wouldn't hurt to have someone come in and set it up for you if you don't know how....

A few guide's that i quickly googled:

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/home-theater-speaker-placement.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fXra68xdENx/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/129023.html

These may help you?

Happy listening

jinjuku · October 2009

jimmydep wrote: »

I like my Emotiva, and I have a Sunfire and a vintage Marantz amp that I am constantly swapping out, so I have a direct comparison. All 3 are very good amps, each with a distinct sound of their own, I just happen to prefer the Emo with my LSI's.

Let your own ears be the judge...everyone has an opinion, your's is the only one that matters.

Enjoy the music!

Jimmy

Agreed, I had the XPA-3 a NAD 272 and my trusty Crown DC-300A setup side by side.

The NAD was 'warmer' (instruments had bit more ambient tone it seemed) in the mids, the XPA-3 was more 'analytical' (the sound stage was more forward and better separation) the XPA-3 also had a bit more punch. I preferred both over the DC 300A (it is 32 years old).

My listening level for the amps was measured at 85dB.

I couldn't say which one is better. It is simply subjective. If I was primarily a jazz/classical/acoustic individual I would give the nod to the NAD. If I were more rock/rap/home theater than I would give the nod to Emotiva.

Bottom line is they all do a much better job than the receiver they were fed with. I don't know if I am personally willing to spend $4k on a 5 channel amp vs the something like the Emotiva or Outlaw. That would require a ton of critical listening. I would rather put the money into better speakers where the biggest difference will be made.

apphd · October 2009

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

I'm no expert but i think there is a lot to be had in placement and proper calibration

IMHO you have a VERY nice system and you should not be wanting more. I would try some better placement and proper calibration, maybe some better IC's and speaker wire?

It wouldn't hurt to have someone come in and set it up for you if you don't know how....

A few guide's that i quickly googled:

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/home-theater-speaker-placement.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fXra68xdENx/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/129023.html

These may help you?

Happy listening

Agreed, as with others. DV you should be getting very respectable sound with your gear. How long have you had it? It is very hard to determine what you do not like when you have little to compare it to, but spend some time now getting to know your system and your room. Play around with speaker placement. Try different settings on your AVR to see what they do and how it effects what YOU are hearing. Read up on room treatments, which can get expensive on their own if you want them to be, but look at some of the budget alternatives and DYI stuff, some different furniture, different window treatments, or an area rug maybe.

I think what many are saying is make sure you have your current gear sounding the best it can, before looking to replace something. The benefit to this will be an intimacy with your setup that should allow you to determine if any new gear you may add is doing what you want and if it gets you close what you might be able to tweak to get you to that 100% point.
For many this is where some of the fun and enjoyment of this sickness we all suffer comes in to play.

speakergeek · October 2009

I listen primarily to music (60/40 vs HT). The XPA-5 does it all very well. I really think it's less about the amp and more about the speakers and how the system is set up. However, I primarily listen to Jazz/Classical. The remaining stuff listened to is Rock/Metal, Electonica/HipHop. It does all of them very well.

The set up does HT very well also. I'm not personally of the opinion that the XPA-5 is only a HT amp. If an amp can successfully handle the dynamics present in a movie (which also contains music), then the logical and observed conclusion is that **** will do well with music (which often is less dynamic than most movies).

There are also some people who think putting speaker cables on special risers improves SQ. I don't.

sTiLlLeArNiNg · October 2009

speakergeek wrote: »

I listen primarily to music (60/40 vs HT). The XPA-5 does it all very well. I really think it's less about the amp and more about the speakers and how the system is set up. However, I primarily listen to Jazz/Classical. The remaining stuff listened to is Rock/Metal, Electonica/HipHop. It does all of them very well.

The set up does HT very well also. I'm not personally of the opinion that the XPA-5 is only a HT amp. If an amp can successfully handle the dynamics present in a movie (which also contains music), then the logical and observed conclusion is that **** will do well with music (which often is less dynamic than most movies).

There are also some people who think putting speaker cables on special risers improves SQ. I don't.

I agree with most of your post except the last part, i think it is entirely dependant on the cable/flooring. Ever drag your feet across a carpeted floor and touch a door knob?

We have similar listening habbit's, maybe a lil' different music taste's but the split is equal 60/40. I am also REALLY looking to get the Emotiva xpa-5 and it is GREAT to hear another good comment on it's performance

Systems · October 2009

speakergeek wrote: »

I'm not personally of the opinion that the XPA-5 is only a HT amp. If an amp can successfully handle the dynamics present in a movie (which also contains music), then the logical and observed conclusion is that **** will do well with music (which often is less dynamic than most movies).

It's not a dynamics thing,I think the gist of the the "HT only" label is likely that in ones opinion a particular amp when compared to another may lack that last bit of refinement,resolution,soundstaging ,treble sweetness etc.Performance aspects which are more important in a 2 ch context as they let more of music's subtlties through.

Ofcourse there are alot variables , like speaker choice and the difficulty of load it presents ,room acoustics ,component synergy and personal taste so one must listen for themselves in their own systems and then decide.

nooshinjohn · October 2009

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

I agree with most of your post except the last part, i think it is entirely dependant on the cable/flooring. Ever drag your feet across a carpeted floor and touch a door knob?

Most of us are happy to have a system that meets 95% of our expectations, and there are a few that will persue that final 5% to the ends of the earth. I am not to that point yet where that last 5% is important, but I can positively tell when the stylus on my turntable has picked up a piece of microdust and needs to be cleaned. I can hear improvments made in systems that use uber-quality interconnects and speaker wires. I can appreciate the theory behind cable lifts. I however am still chasing after the first 95%:)Stereo(two channel) listening has supplanted HT listening to a point where HT is not much of a concern for me any longer and I plan on dropping HT altogether soon and going with a two channel setup even for tv/movie watching.

sTiLlLeArNiNg · October 2009

GV#27 wrote: »

It's not a dynamics thing,I think the gist of the the "HT only" label is likely that in ones opinion a particular amp when compared to another may lack that last bit of resolution,soundstaging ,treble sweetness etc.Performance aspects which are more important in a 2 ch context.

Ok but when you are comparing an $800 amp to a $2k + amp i think that the choice is clear, unless you got lot's of money? Which i don't

I highly doubt that there would be a $1,200+ difference of "resolution, soundstaging, treble sweetness etc..."

If you want 2ch duty you can get the xpa-2 and i think it would be safe to say there would be an "improvement" compared to the xpa-5? So for $2k you could get BOTH an xpa-5 for HT and an xpa-2 for 2ch!! Best of both world's? IF i had the cash the choice would be easy for me

@ nooshinjohn: I think cable lifter's are easy enough to make, just need some non conductive material to make the stand's is all. Right?

I think some people spend entirely to much time analyzing/critiquing there system's instead of listening/enjoying them....

Just my $0.02

concealer404 · October 2009

^Well... Yep. That's where the price/performance barrier comes into play, the law of diminishing returns.

I enjoy critiquing my system, so it's all part of the process. On the other hand, because i've spent so much time doing so, and trying so much gear, albeit most of it "mid-fi" i like to think that i have a genuine "hi-fi" sound. And i think MOST would agree.

Systems · October 2009

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

Ok but when you are comparing an $800 amp to a $2k + amp i think that the choice is clear, unless you got lot's of money? Which i don't I highly doubt that there would be a $1,200+ difference of "resolution, soundstaging, treble sweetness etc..."

I was just speaking to the "HT only" designation, price was irrelevant.However yes one would expect the $2k to offer up better SQ than the $800 unit but that may not necessarily be the case.It would be in the ears of the beholder whether the differences/improvements were worth the extra coin.

I think some people spend entirely to much time analyzing/critiquing there system's instead of listening/enjoying them....

Guilty.:o:D

megasat16 · October 2009

sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »

Ok but when you are comparing an $800 amp to a $2k + amp i think that the choice is clear, unless you got lot's of money? Which i don't I highly doubt that there would be a $1,200+ difference of "resolution, soundstaging, treble sweetness etc..."

If you want 2ch duty you can get the xpa-2 and i think it would be safe to say there would be an "improvement" compared to the xpa-5? So for $2k you could get BOTH an xpa-5 for HT and an xpa-2 for 2ch!! Best of both world's? IF i had the cash the choice would be easy for me

@ nooshinjohn: I think cable lifter's are easy enough to make, just need some non conductive material to make the stand's is all. Right?

I think some people spend entirely to much time analyzing/critiquing there system's instead of listening/enjoying them....

Just my $0.02

For $800, you have plenty of options for a really good 2 channel power amp in very good cosmetics and working condition in the used market. You can buy a good solid amp such as Nelson Pass's designed Adcom GFA-5802 for around $800 or less. You may not have factory warranty with it but it's not likely require any repair in a long time too.

I feel today's $2000 amp are mediocre at best. Cost doesn't mean a thing but you need to know what the good stuff is. And of coz, finding Synergy between gears is the fun in this hobby!

sTiLlLeArNiNg · October 2009

@ concealer: Like you i also "critique" my system but i'm not going to lose any sleep over it or argue on the web about it. Nor am i going to spend $5k+ to hear 2Hz/5Khz difference

Will i add some better gear to my system? Most definately! Will i go broke doing it? Not even close! I'm a firm beleiver in that a properly setup/configured system with quality component's will be MORE than sufficient for myself as well as 99% of other's.

All that being said my next upgrade's will be a separate amp and better cable's

Just my $0.02

Adcom vs Parasound vs Emotiva vs Sunfire vs Outlaw?

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