Blu-Ray Review: FAST & FURIOUS 2-DISC SPECIAL EDITION (Universal)

Mike LoManaco
Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
edited August 2009 in Music & Movies
fast-and-furious-2009-br.jpg

Studio Name: Universal (Relativity Media/Original Film/Once Race Films)
MPAA Rating: PG-13
Disc/Transfer Information: 1080p High Definition Widescreen 2.40:1; Region 1 (U.S.) Disc
Tested Audio Track: English DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 (tested as core DTS track)
Director: Justin Lin
Starring Cast: Vin Diesel, Paul Walker, Michelle Rodriguez



NEW MODEL. ORIGINAL PARTS.


LoMANACO'S PLOT ANALYSIS:

The Blu-ray edition of the franchise-regenerating Fast & Furious includes Vin Diesel's Los Bandoleros, an original short film which attempts to explain the details behind the feature's opening fuel truck heist. While I didn't watch it yet -- or any of the retina-searing lengthy extra features on the "Best Buy Exclusive" version I am reviewing here -- I wanted to mention it because perhaps this will explain a great many things about the rather head-scratching "point" of this plot. Indeed, the film opens with Diesel, Rodriguez and a new group of Dominican friends all racing down a Dominican Republic highway attempting to "rob" a gigantic multi-piece fuel tanker. You would think this group had learned their lesson about hijacking speeding trucks from their results at the end of the first Fast & The Furious, but, alas, they're at it again -- this time without the assistance of Jesse, Vince or some of the original gang even though the initial trailers for the film had you believing the entire original cast was in this.

At any rate, I picked this up a week after release day because I was in the Aloha state on the honeymoon over the past seven days or so, and instead of going into the plot analysis from scratch, what I am going to do is simply provide my original review of the film in theaters, and then go into the Blu-ray transfer details after just finishing it. The review of the disc itself is of Universal's 2-Disc Special Edition, which isn't available in any other form in high def, whereas the standard DVD is available in two versions, one being less expensive than its two-disc counterpart. This seems to be the trend in optical disc releases now -- that is, release the Blu-ray in just one deluxe package, priced at a premium of sorts, and then offer the DVD in two flavors.

Below is the initial theatrical review I did of the title:

Caught this finally last night -- as a big fan of Rob Cohen's original, this fourth entry in the franchise reminded me a lot of Live Free or Die Hard in the way that all the characters have seemingly matured a bit since the 2001 original (as I felt Willis' McClaine character matured in Live Free as well). Yet, as much as they "matured" they still slip back into their "roots" like a glove...before I get into that, let me give some details about the film.

While I didn't like the fact that Universal didn't have Cohen come back to direct this one (actually, there have been rumors that he may have been asked but refused or was working on something else since Tomb of the Dragon Emperor), the best thing to happen to this franchise was to reunite most of the original cast, which made the first film just so enjoyable. Sure, it was cheesy...but there was something about the way the original cast was brought together that made that film "good cheese." With an Asian director at the helm this time, the franchise moves beyond the "flash in the pan" "drifting" phenomenon from the last film in the series and concentrates on reuniting Paul Walker and Vin Diesel; yet, the way they "meet" again and come together could have been a little more dramatic and concentrated, I felt. Also, while the trailers would have you believe the entire cast from the first film is back in this one, that's not 100 percent accurate...indeed, Walker and Diesel return, but missing are the "Vince" and "Leon" characters from the original, and of course "Jesse" who was killed in that first film by Johnny Tran. It would have been nice if the entire cast returned as a team again, but many fans assume "Vince" died because of complications from his encounter on the semi truck at the end of the first film.

Still, the decision to bring the main players of the first picture back was a very smart one -- it is indeed Walker and Diesel that made that film, no doubt; especially Diesel. Sure, Walker reappeared in 2 Fast 2 Furious but John Singleton really screwed that one up -- it was awful. This happens with franchises all the time, and sometimes it just takes some brainstorming to get a series back on track. While not perfect (and I'm wondering what kind of market is actually left for these films) this new one gets it at least a bit back on track.

Walker's Brian O'Connor character has finally gotten his job with the FBI -- I'm assuming the events of the second film have been made a memory -- and with it, his character has matured...gone is the medium length curly blonde hair of a Los Angeles surfer; now, Walker sports a short haircut and has shaved some pounds off to be able to chase down perps through the streets of L.A. The film opens, meanwhile, with an eye-popping heist sequence (much like the end of the first film) involving Diesel and Michelle Rodriguez ("Letty") in the Dominican Republic, as they dodge and weave between petroleum fuel trucks. The scene is nail-biting and every bit as involving as, say, the opening car chase and shootout from Quantum of Solace, and that's an important aspect to mention here: This Fast and Furious has an almost "international action film" type of feel like Quantum or Taken, and it was refreshing to see the franchise go in this direction after the neon-lit cartoon and joke that was 2 Fast 2 Furious. The action in this one goes all over the Spanish-speaking world before culminating in a Mexico border sequence.

The plot of this one, though, relied too heavily on the ridiculous plot from the second film; once again, we have a bunch of professional race drivers attempting to get into the good graces of a Mexican kingpin -- this guy is the one FBI are looking for, and so is Vin Diesel because of what his organization did to Rodriguez (I'm not going to give that one away). While Diesel (who's hot sister played by Ms. Jordana Brewster returns once again) attempts to infiltrate this guy's organization through street racing (does this sound like the second film?), Walker and the FBI do the same, which only means the two of them will meet in a street confrontation once again.

And that brings us to the appeal of the franchise in the first place: The street racing, of course. While this plays more like a hardcore action film, as I said, there still has to be a race sequence or it just wouldn't be a Fast and the Furious; let me tell you something, fellas: If you thought the girls were nearly naked and smokin' in the first film, wait until you lay your eyes on the ladies in this one who surround the street races and party at the local club...the hottest chicks with the flattest stomachs and hugest **** are fondling each other, making out with one another and grinding to the beats of the underground Spanish nightlife in this one -- the scenes are heart attack inducing. The race sequence on the other hand didn't have the visceral impact that the one in the first film still has -- and again, some is borrowed from Singleton's sequel in that the race has all the contestants going through traffic-congested streets (in the second film, the racers went through streets but not with other drivers) instead of a cleared quarter mile path, causing accidents and just encouraging wild driving from people watching the film. I can recall when I saw the first film in theaters, and when I left, I witnessed wild, reckless driving from the people who left with us...the film caused horrible accidents all over the country, and there was a fatality involving a Corvette and Ferrari the weekend of the film's opening where I lived. This new one may do the same.

And so Walker trades in his suit and tie and goes undercover once again as a professional street racer, getting behind the wheel of a Nissan Skyline once more, as Diesel races in American muscle this time. His 800-horsepower monster from the first film that he flipped at the end returns too, apparently restored by Rodriguez in a plot substory; Mia, Dom's sister, while sexy, has definitely grown older but there's still bad blood between her and Walker. They rekindle a bit of their passion, but it's not the point here; they are both trying to get to this Mexican overlord for their own reasons.

I also have a problem with the film's title; couldn't they come up with something better? Fast and Furious isn't the first film, by any means -- but it definitely trumps the two sequel attempts in this franchise. It may be a buy on Blu when it comes out, and the soundtrack should rock.

Thank you for reading!


FAST & FURIOUS REVIEW CONTINUED BELOW...
Post edited by Mike LoManaco on
«1

Comments

  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    FAST & FURIOUS REVIEW CONTINUED...

    VIDEO QUALITY:

    As usual, the outdoor sequences on this 1080p 2.40:1 encode fare much better as the darker ones, where once the sequences drop to indoor shots, the image gets a bit murky and loses some detail and "HD pop." There is virtually no film grain to speak of (if your display is calibrated correctly ;)) and aside from a vicious gold/yellow push in certain scenes (especially in shots of Diesel's face) this was a commendable transfer from Universal.

    AUDIO QUALITY:

    I apologize, folks, but unfortunately I am still unable to take full advantage of the Master Audio tracks on many of today's BD releases -- still "stuck" with my first generation Panasonic player, I ran Fast & Furious' MA mix as a core DTS stream, but, as usual, this was not too shabby. While every bit as aggressive as you would imagine during the film's top setpieces, curiously, I found the sound mix to be a bit on the shallow side. The initial opening fuel truck sequence didn't resonate with that much crunching low bass energy, even when the trucks broke up into exploding balls of fire around the soundstage; even more mysterious was the lack of some surround activity during this sequence. The spatial movement and ambient cues of the cars racing from front to back and left to right were there, but the effects weren't laid on aggressively -- I'm a sucker for loud, bombarding surround channel usage (have you heard the DTS track on the Superbit version of Air Force One or the ridiculously loud rear channel delivery on the Master Audio DTS track of The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor Blu-ray?) -- and it didn't seem to be here.

    Dialogue volume also bothered me. All too many times, dialogue was much too low in the mix compared to when the action heated up -- an anomaly usually associated with Dolby Digital-encoded standard DVDs. The sequences involving the smokin' hot ladies kissing each other in the racing scenes while thumping club music pounded in the background didn't really sound all that "thumping" either; I simply expected more. This could, theoretically, be blamed on my system's "dumbing down" of the Master Audio track to standard DTS, but I really doubt it. The track did begin to heat up and exhibit signs of aggressive expansion into the rear soundfield when the race takes place in the city streets and then at the end as Walker and Diesel burn through the Mexico/U.S. border tunnel, dodging the kingpin's henchmen. Here, the wild panning of the cars and the gunshots fired during the chase rang out in all five channels, and kind of redeemed what came before it.

    A solid mix, no doubt about it. But there are some DTS MA tracks out there which, amazingly, just do it better.

    LoMANACO'S SUMMARY:

    You know, rewatching this for the first time since the theatrical launch, it seemed to play...I don't know...a bit "cheesier" for lack of a better term; sure -- Justin Lin did a great job reassembling the essential elements of what made the first film so magical while attempting to erase the memory of the horrendous first two sequels. And sure, the reconnecting of Walker and Diesel simply brought the energy back to this franchise (the joke which was John Singleton's attempt at a sequel to the first film is a cinematic tragedy; Ludacris acting as a race guru in Miami? Cole Hauser as the bad guy who's banging Eva Mendes? The horrendously painful dialogue we had to sit through?) yet there is something that's not quite right about Fast & Furious. When viewed with a keen eye, the plot is as thin as melba toast on Nina Hartley's fat ****, and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny whatsoever...I mean, what was the bad guy's goal? What were they trying to get from him? I understand Diesel’s Dom character was after Bragga (the bad guy) for revenge over the death of Letty, but was Diesel really after Bragga, or the guy who really killed Letty, Phoenix? Walker's O’Connor character goes from grown up FBI agent to moments of childish decay when he gets around Dom again; Brewster seems to be nothing more than window dressing for 25 year old racer boys to beat off to when they're watching the film alone at night, as her "Mia" character does nothing, really, except to look bored as she drives a Japanese-market Honda NSX (that's Acura NSX for those of you unaware that there are foreign market vehicles for sale outside the U.S.) to attempt to break her brother out of a prison bus he's on in the film's closing sequence. And there's still that ridiculously cheesy, macho **** that hangs like stale brie over each and every character like in every other title in the franchise -- that testosterone driven, male ego boosting theme which perpetuates the behavior of these muscle-bound grotesques with their tank tops, chains and over abundance of body art. First Diesel is threatening the Phoenix character, then the Phoenix character is daring Diesel to "make a move" as they're nose to nose...then Diesel almost drops a car engine on some jag-off who won't give him information about Mia's killers...it goes on and on. While some scenes are cool -- such as the one I just mentioned when Diesel almost drops the engine on the dude -- this macho **** just gets tiring after an hour and 45 minutes of it. Then, there's a painfully laughable part involving some punk who talks **** to other racers while he holds the waists of the hottest girls in the film and wears a cowboy hat; I don't know how he did it, but this **** bag who mouths off to Walker about his Nissan Skyline and how import "ricers" won't ever be able to hold the jockstrap of a domestic muscle car manages to get a houseful of smokin' women to make out with one another -- three of which do it right in front of him on the couch. That's just before his house is raided by law enforcement. **** bag. :rolleyes:

    But aside from all this, Fast & Furious does manage to bring the "franchise" back on track -- if that's what Universal was going for. I don't know how much more interest this subject matter will have beyond the four films already made, but the import car tuner market is certainly not getting any smaller or shutting down, and this film definitely makes 2Fast2Furious and Tokyo Drift seem forgettable in comparison. I suppose we have been seeing much of this in Hollywood of late -- Stallone attempted to "re-energize" the Rocky franchise with Rocky Balboa (although that was more of an attempt at closing the series on a different tone) as well as with Rambo while we also saw a new Indiana Jones and a new Mummy -- and it was more than a decent attempt by Justin Lin to bring back some of the feel Rob Cohen so expertly exhibited in the first film.

    LoMANACO'S RECOMMENDATIONS:

    If you were a fan of circa 2001's The Fast and the Furious, by all means rent this as soon as possible. If you saw it in theaters and enjoyed it better than the first two awful sequels, as I did, by all means pick up the Blu-ray. It is a nearly two hours of mindless action, and will make a nice companion piece to other actioneers on your BD shelf which have come out in recent time, including titles like The Incredible Hulk, Quantum of Solace, The Dark Knight, Iron Man and The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.

    As always, thank you for reading, friends, and please fire away with any commentary!!
  • danz1906
    danz1906 Posts: 5,144
    edited August 2009
    Good Movie-Good Sound!
    Linn AV5140 fronts
    Linn AV5120 Center
    Linn AV5140 Rears
    M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
    Odyssey Mono-Blocs
    SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2009
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited August 2009
    Dialogue volume also bothered me. All too many times, dialogue was much too low in the mix compared to when the action heated up -- an anomaly usually associated with Dolby Digital-encoded standard DVDs.

    You've said something about this before, but I'm curious... What "anomaly" are you talking about that Dolby Digital supposedly has? DD tracks have no issues with properly representing the theatrical levels. If you're talking about dialogue normalization, dialnorm is a global reduction of ALL channels. All dialnorm does is pass a parameter from the AC3 stream's metadata to the decoder to alter the gain at the decoding stage. If not dialnorm, what are you referring to?

    As I said in another thread, I wonder if you have a setup issue that's affecting your center channel's level or equalization. Both the DVD and BD of this presented clear and intelligible dialogue at all times on my system, even during the loudest action sequences. Not hatin'... Just curious.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »

    Moderators (Patrick & Others):

    I have spoken to you multiple times in private already about Ricardo's behavior regarding my threads and posts, and here again is another example: He provided a link to Keiko's review of the title -- which had absolutely NOTHING to do with my separate take on it -- merely to begin yet another argument with me on the board; as if to say read THAT review, not this one, as it's been covered already. This shouldn't be allowed on this forum -- hijacking a thread to redirect a reader somewhere else due to personal feelings about a member. I don't do it in anyone else's threads, and this shouldn't be going on in mine. My review of Fast & Furious has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Keiko's, and it wasn't meant to stomp on ANY of his feelings or work in his own thread. I am going to report Ricardo's post now privately to you.

    Thank you.
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    Both the DVD and BD of this presented clear and intelligible dialogue at all times on my system, even during the loudest action sequences.

    Not on my setup, and as I have indicated in the past, my center channel is calibrated two dB's higher than the others for compensation attempt.
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    danz1906 wrote: »
    Good Movie-Good Sound!

    Thanks for your thoughts, Danz.
  • Ron-P
    Ron-P Posts: 8,520
    edited August 2009
    Moderators (Patrick & Others):

    I have spoken to you multiple times in private already about Ricardo's behavior regarding my threads and posts, and here again is another example: He provided a link to Keiko's review of the title -- which had absolutely NOTHING to do with my separate take on it -- merely to begin yet another argument with me on the board; as if to say read THAT review, not this one, as it's been covered already. This shouldn't be allowed on this forum -- hijacking a thread to redirect a reader somewhere else due to personal feelings about a member. I don't do it in anyone else's threads, and this shouldn't be going on in mine. My review of Fast & Furious has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Keiko's, and it wasn't meant to stomp on ANY of his feelings or work in his own thread. I am going to report Ricardo's post now privately to you.

    Thank you.

    Not sure of the past with you and Keiko Mike, but it could be as simple as the fact there was already a thread on this film for reviewing. There's really no reason to start another. Why don't you just post your reviews to existing threads? Why start another thread? Do a search before you post, if a thread already exists post your review there, it's much simpler that way.
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited August 2009
    Moderators (Patrick & Others):

    I have spoken to you multiple times in private already about Ricardo's behavior regarding my threads and posts, and here again is another example: He provided a link to Keiko's review of the title -- which had absolutely NOTHING to do with my separate take on it -- merely to begin yet another argument with me on the board; as if to say read THAT review, not this one, as it's been covered already. This shouldn't be allowed on this forum -- hijacking a thread to redirect a reader somewhere else due to personal feelings about a member. I don't do it in anyone else's threads, and this shouldn't be going on in mine. My review of Fast & Furious has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Keiko's, and it wasn't meant to stomp on ANY of his feelings or work in his own thread. I am going to report Ricardo's post now privately to you.

    Thank you.

    Quit whining...you are posting on a public internet forum. There are no rules that say one can't post a reply criticizing what you do as to form or content. As long as the replies aren't abusive or vulgar...you have no say as to how one responds to your posts. If you don't like it...don't post.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    Ron-P wrote: »
    Not sure of the past with you and Keiko Mike, but it could be as simple as the fact there was already a thread on this film for reviewing. There's really no reason to start another. Why don't you just post your reviews to existing threads? Why start another thread? Do a search before you post, if a thread already exists post your review there, it's much simpler that way.

    While I understand your point of what he may have been doing by providing the link, it is my feeling that it goes beyond that. And as for the dual threads, I have already spoken with moderators in private regarding the "allowance" of beginning new threads on the same subject, as long as they don't bash another person's views on what they originally wrote.

    EDIT: Ron, I was originally speaking about Ricardo in my reply to you, not Keiko; I have no personal issues on here with Keiko Mike.
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    shack wrote: »
    Quit whining...you are posting on a public internet forum. There are no rules that say one can't post a reply criticizing what you do as to form or content. As long as the replies aren't abusive or vulgar...you have no say as to how one responds to your posts. If you don't like it...don't post.

    Here we go again...another person telling someone to "quit whining" and that I should "stop posting" because someone has the RIGHT to attack another member on here -- for your information, I am NOT "whining" so know what you are talking about before snapping to a keyboard to criticize someone you DON'T EVEN KNOW. I put a great deal of time and effort into the reviews, and all I get is grief from members like you about it -- but you know what? That's not even the biggest issue here. The largest concern is that you don't even know what you're talking about -- I AM NOT SAYING THAT I HAVE A SAY AS TO HOW SOMEONE REPLIES TO A POST, but I AM saying that I KNOW of a personal problem between me and certain members and it's the reason they are providing certain replies and responses in here.

    Do me a favor -- don't jump on the asinine, senseless bandwagon of "just don't post if you don't like it" as if you MEAN to create a harassing, combative environment on here to scare people away from sharing some passions and thoughts...it's simply unnecessary and ineffective.
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited August 2009
    While I understand your point of what he may have been doing by providing the link, it is my feeling that it goes beyond that. And as for the dual threads, I have already spoken with moderators in private regarding the "allowance" of beginning new threads on the same subject, as long as they don't bash another person's views on what they originally wrote.

    EDIT: Ron, I was originally speaking about Ricardo in my reply to you, not Keiko; I have no personal issues on here with Keiko Mike.

    Politely speaking, you can speak to the moderators about the multiple thread issue all you want. You're technically ALLOWED to create them. But just because you CAN do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD, and you will continue to be harassed about the clutter they create by the other users who consider it a matter of etiquette. That other thread wasn't "Keiko's review thread"... It was just A REVIEW THREAD, and the proper etiquette is to add your own thoughts or review to the existing thread.

    Please note that I'm not attacking you by saying this. I'm merely pointing out that no matter how many times you discuss it with the moderators, people are going to continue to complain about you creating new threads for topics which already exist. Ricardo was not being rude by linking to the other review thread, as that's also common etiquette when a thread on the same topic already exists... though I certainly understand that you have a past with him.

    Personally, I would prefer that you post your reviews in the existing thread for a movie when one exists, but I know you will continue to refuse to follow proper posting etiquette so I don't bother linking to the existing thread. In my opinion, this forum is for discussion of movies and music by all the users... not discussion of one individual's review of same, as you seem to believe it should be. But again... that's just my take on the matter.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited August 2009
    Not on my setup, and as I have indicated in the past, my center channel is calibrated two dB's higher than the others for compensation attempt.

    You've said that in your previous threads, which is why I wish you would at least entertain the possibility that you have a setup issue that is the root cause. If you're going to do these enthusiast reviews, the reader typically expects you to have put the time and effort into ensuring that your review reflects the actual source material. The only way to do such is to calibrate your system to the defined standards. If you are having to run your center channel 2dB higher than the others, your system does not reflect the source material, as it is not level-matched to properly reproduce the intended theatrical mix.

    I've asked this of you in previous threads, and since I know you're sensitive to feeling like you're being attacked when someone questions you about things, I assure you that I'm doing so only to help you. Looking at your equipment list, my first concern is that your center speaker is from a different series of Polk speakers than your other speakers, which could cause a tonal mismatch in your front soundstage. Typically, you would want your front three speakers to be tonally matched from the same series, whereas a mismatch of surround speakers is far less of an issue. Running room correction such as the Audyssey 2EQ in your receiver might help mitigate that, so I wonder if you are utilizing this or not. I'd also like to know what crossovers you're using for each channel. I also wonder if you are verifying the levels yourself using a SPL meter or depending on the levels detected by Audyssey, and if you are running your subwoofer hotter than the other channels. All of these things can cause issues that will affect proper dialogue reproduction. Perhaps if you can provide some more information about your setup and calibration, the users here can help remedy the issue you're having with dialogue.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited August 2009
    Oh, and I apologize for my third post in a row, but since you mentioned proper calibration in your video section... Is your display's grayscale calibrated to D65? If so, I'm curious as to what your display's gamma read as. My projector is calibrated to just under the proper gamma (which was unavoidable because I had to slightly overdrive red to get grayscale in line from 20-90 IRE), and I didn't have any issue with murkiness or loss of detail on this title. The dark scenes, especially during the nighttime runs in the desert, looked pretty clean to me and were pretty much how I remembered them in the theater. Just curious.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2009
    Wow. I missed a lot last night.

    No, it is not against the rules to start multiple reviews for the same movie, but the tradition is that once a review thread is made, all the other members use that thread to post their impressions. Having multiple threads is very annoying, at least that's the way I see it.

    I don't see what the big deal was; just posted a link to an existing review thread. I don't understand the need to contact moderators for that. Some of them do have a life you know.

    Back to the subject. It won't hurt you to search to see if there's another thread already, and if there is one, just post your review there. It would make everyone's life easier and avoid us readers go back and forth between multiple review threads if we want to read about a movie.

    If you need help understanding how the search function works, you can contact me, or any of the moderators; they must be your buddies by now.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2009
    Moderators (Patrick & Others):

    I have spoken to you multiple times in private already about Ricardo's behavior regarding my threads and posts, and here again is another example: He provided a link to Keiko's review of the title -- which had absolutely NOTHING to do with my separate take on it -- merely to begin yet another argument with me on the board; as if to say read THAT review, not this one, as it's been covered already. This shouldn't be allowed on this forum -- hijacking a thread to redirect a reader somewhere else due to personal feelings about a member. I don't do it in anyone else's threads, and this shouldn't be going on in mine. My review of Fast & Furious has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Keiko's, and it wasn't meant to stomp on ANY of his feelings or work in his own thread. I am going to report Ricardo's post now privately to you.

    Thank you.

    Sorry for coming back, but I just now read this whole post. I quote it here because I really think it is worth reading at least twice. I am being honest here. If it wasn't that long, I would use it as signature material.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited August 2009
    A little cheese to go with that whine?

    Crybaby.
  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited August 2009
    I think the drama that's accompanying the threads could go away, that's for sure....


    But am i the only one that enjoys these reviews?

    I'll be completely honest here and say that i only NORMALLY read review threads if it's for a movie i have any interest in. But i read ALL of Mike's because they're entertaining, and way more in depth than the other review threads.

    If i wanted to truly know what a movie is like (or at least one person's view on it was), i go to Mike's review. If i want a bunch of quick "I liked it." "I didn't like it." "This movie sucked." "Rent only." "I like pie." "Beyonce is HAWT!" Then i go read the other thread. I'm actually pretty happy that they DON'T get mixed.

    Just my personal view. My world won't come to a crushing end no matter what gets figured out or what anyone else feels is right. :D
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited August 2009
    But am i the only one that enjoys these reviews?

    Honestly, I skip his commentary and look at the video and audio sections of his reviews. In my opinion, his reviews are way too long. Not an attack - just my opinion. I do at least skim them, because I'm curious how his assessment of the audio and video compares to my own.

    I think the issue of him creating separate threads for his reviews is not only about it being unnecessary and against standard forum etiquette, but it's also about the way members here perceive him because of it. The word "pretentious" has been bandied about by others in his past threads, and while I don't believe I've ever used the word toward him, I can certainly understand its use. His usage of the third person comes across just as self-aggrandizing as when a professional sports star does it. Everything is "Lomanaco's review", "Lomanaco's summary", "Lomanaco at the movies", etc. His insistence on creating separate threads for his reviews comes across as equally self-aggrandizing, as if his reviews were somehow of more value than the opinions of others here. Endemic of this, he tends to claim each thread he creates as his own possession, lashing out at anyone who disagrees with him as if their opinion was a personal affront to him or a comment on his review, as well as congratulating other people who agree with him with such fare as "Thanks for your thoughts". This is not his personal forum to advance his own writing, and his reviews would be equally at home in the existing threads where others are already discussing the movies. More than anything, that's what others have attempted to convey to him in the past, some more politely than others.

    Ultimately, its his insistence on creating new threads for existing topics that seems to have drawn the ire of many of the veteran posters here. For my part, I will not be insulting to him, as I appreciate his passion for the movies - a passion that many of us here obviously share or we would not be here. I will, however, reiterate my previous opinion that he could easily avoid the criticism he is drawing here by posting his reviews in the existing threads where other enthusiasts just as important as him are already discussing these titles.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
  • everpress
    everpress Posts: 862
    edited August 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »
    If it wasn't that long, I would use it as signature material.

    Just make the font smaller...

    ? Harmon Kardon AVR 55 (dead; replacing with Onkyo TX NR-616)
    ? Polk RTA 11TL's (FR and FL)
    ? Polk TSi200's (RR and RL)
    ? Polk CS10 (Center)
    ? Polk PSW-350
    ? Grado SR-60i Headphones
    ? Fii0 E5 headphone amp
    ? iPod touch (8 gig)
    ? iPod Classic (80 gig)
    ? Mac Mini (as media server)
    ? xbox 360

  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited August 2009
    Honestly, I skip his commentary and look at the video and audio sections of his reviews. In my opinion, his reviews are way too long. Not an attack - just my opinion. I do at least skim them, because I'm curious how his assessment of the audio and video compares to my own.

    I think the issue of him creating separate threads for his reviews is not only about it being unnecessary and against standard forum etiquette, but it's also about the way members here perceive him because of it. The word "pretentious" has been bandied about by others in his past threads, and while I don't believe I've ever used the word toward him, I can certainly understand its use. His usage of the third person comes across just as self-aggrandizing as when a professional sports star does it. Everything is "Lomanaco's review", "Lomanaco's summary", "Lomanaco at the movies", etc. His insistence on creating separate threads for his reviews comes across as equally self-aggrandizing, as if his reviews were somehow of more value than the opinions of others here. Endemic of this, he tends to claim each thread he creates as his own possession, lashing out at anyone who disagrees with him as if their opinion was a personal affront to him or a comment on his review, as well as congratulating other people who agree with him with such fare as "Thanks for your thoughts". This is not his personal forum to advance his own writing, and his reviews would be equally at home in the existing threads where others are already discussing the movies. More than anything, that's what others have attempted to convey to him in the past, some more politely than others.

    This is a well written synopsis. Also...the term verbose immediately comes to mind. I read a couple of his early reviews and was unimpressed as to his form and substance.

    IMO he comes across as a whiney, tattletale child when folks criticize him or his reviews...
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited August 2009
    So what everybody is saying is basically "Asshat" complete with capital A right?

    Born to be on the Bozo list.
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2009
    So what everybody is saying is basically "Asshat" complete with capital A right?

    Born to be on the Bozo list.

    Hmmm...I don't think there's enough bandwith to hold such long posts; you'll have to remove a few others from the list.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited August 2009
    GG - he is the definition of the Bozo the list was made to honor!
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2009
    Damn. How disappointing. I was looking forward to more posts this morning. Oh well.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    Politely speaking, you can speak to the moderators about the multiple thread issue all you want. You're technically ALLOWED to create them. But just because you CAN do a thing doesn't mean you SHOULD, and you will continue to be harassed about the clutter they create by the other users who consider it a matter of etiquette. That other thread wasn't "Keiko's review thread"... It was just A REVIEW THREAD, and the proper etiquette is to add your own thoughts or review to the existing thread.

    Please note that I'm not attacking you by saying this. I'm merely pointing out that no matter how many times you discuss it with the moderators, people are going to continue to complain about you creating new threads for topics which already exist. Ricardo was not being rude by linking to the other review thread, as that's also common etiquette when a thread on the same topic already exists... though I certainly understand that you have a past with him.

    Personally, I would prefer that you post your reviews in the existing thread for a movie when one exists, but I know you will continue to refuse to follow proper posting etiquette so I don't bother linking to the existing thread. In my opinion, this forum is for discussion of movies and music by all the users... not discussion of one individual's review of same, as you seem to believe it should be. But again... that's just my take on the matter.

    This whole lecture about "proper etiquette" is headache inducing, as it's all relative as to the meaning of that term in context, and although you "warn" me that people will continue to harass me (interesting that this is readily acknowledged and actually ADMITTED to and there are no rules governing this) if I begin separate threads on a title review, what really matters is that certain moderators have already advised me that it IS certainly fine to begin a topic on a review even though another had already begun because mine have a more structured layout to them in terms of separating audio from video, etc. With this in mind, I will now turn my attention toward answering YOUR commentary regarding the equipment, etc. in later replies and ignore all the rest of the bantering and harassing statements by the remainder of the members contributing in this thread. Calling me a "cry baby" and contributing NOTHING -- absolutely NOTHING -- to this thread or any others by coming in and simply dumping a reply or two like that to feed a flame war is asinine and foolish. I am not going to jusify to the member who made the comment about "whine and cheese" once more that it's not what I am getting at -- it's falling on blind eyes and crippled hands, apparently, and I'm just too seasoned and mature to continue with it.

    And YES, you are RIGHT and I thank you for acknowledging it -- there IS a history with me and Ricardo, and it WAS the reason he provided the link. For nothing more than to discredit this thread, and I WAS NOT trying to discredit Keiko's thread, AT ALL.

    But I am going to deal with your comments regarding the gear setup now.
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,796
    edited August 2009
    Panties up yer crack, Mike?
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    You've said that in your previous threads, which is why I wish you would at least entertain the possibility that you have a setup issue that is the root cause. If you're going to do these enthusiast reviews, the reader typically expects you to have put the time and effort into ensuring that your review reflects the actual source material. The only way to do such is to calibrate your system to the defined standards. If you are having to run your center channel 2dB higher than the others, your system does not reflect the source material, as it is not level-matched to properly reproduce the intended theatrical mix.

    My system HAS BEEN calibrated with a professional SPL meter and re-verified by not only me but a few professional installer friends. When the issue of low dialogue has been brought up, they suggested -- and my ears agreed -- that the center channel level could be brought up 2dBs to compensate. For your information, this is NOT an unheard of process -- do a quick search and you will find many home theater system owners who have merely raised their center channel level to compensate for lower playback; it's NOT unheard of. Sure, the goal is for every channel to exhibit the same output at the sweet spot, but SOMETIMES some channels need some trim somewhere. Hence is the situation in MY room.
    I've asked this of you in previous threads, and since I know you're sensitive to feeling like you're being attacked when someone questions you about things, I assure you that I'm doing so only to help you.

    That is absolutely UNTRUE (that I am sensitive to being attacked when someone questions "things" about me) and I am only DEFENSIVE when I feel I am being attacked PERSONALLY. YOU YOURSELF have gone on about my style of reviews, their inability to hold your interest, and THAT has sparked a million spinoff comments IN THIS THREAD ALONE about how my style is off and the delivery is verbose and a host of other hurtful rhetoric, when there's really no need for it at all -- we're supposed to be in here DISCUSSING THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF THE DISCS OR THE PLOTS OF THE FILMS UNDER REVIEW. Yet, somehow, it always spirals into "You're a whining ****" or "Would you like some whine with that cheese?" when I am RESPONDING INITIALLY to someone else's harassing reply.

    So, no, many of your comments are really not trying to "help me" at all.
    Looking at your equipment list, my first concern is that your center speaker is from a different series of Polk speakers than your other speakers, which could cause a tonal mismatch in your front soundstage.

    When this set of speakers was first chosen, it was completely and comfortably recommended by the retail outlet I purchased from and discussed it with for hours on end before purchase; I was assured that the CSi center would work PERFECTLY fine with the Rs in terms of coherence across the soundstage, which I understand VERY well. It has been confirmed by the folks I had called in to re-asses my system settings.
    Typically, you would want your front three speakers to be tonally matched from the same series, whereas a mismatch of surround speakers is far less of an issue.

    I am well aware of this. I wouldn't be doing Blu-ray and DVD reviews for other publications if I didn't understand this basic rule of HT. I really do not believe that the inclusion of a CSi center with my R20 mains is what is causing the dialogue delivery to be weak in comparison to other channels in some of the titles I review and own; other than that, there are NO other coherency problems with the front soundstage.
    Running room correction such as the Audyssey 2EQ in your receiver might help mitigate that, so I wonder if you are utilizing this or not. I'd also like to know what crossovers you're using for each channel. I also wonder if you are verifying the levels yourself using a SPL meter or depending on the levels detected by Audyssey, and if you are running your subwoofer hotter than the other channels. All of these things can cause issues that will affect proper dialogue reproduction. Perhaps if you can provide some more information about your setup and calibration, the users here can help remedy the issue you're having with dialogue.

    My subwoofer is NOT running hotter than other channels and it has required much tweaking over the past few months due to neighbor concerns where I live; and so it is actually runner LESS hot than I would actually like, but it's at a level that is necessary for playback in my conditions. Given that, it's understandable that someone would read that and say "well, that's why you say the LFE on a title is not that tactile!!" but I do test the bass-heavy sections of a track with the sub raised to calibration levels, yet I must then return them to a lower output. To answer your questions above, the system is calibrated with an SPL meter, and if you remember our discussion in the speaker section, I have all the speakers rolled off at 80Hz which seems to be feeding the sub just fine in terms of low information and how the Rs are handling it.
  • Mike LoManaco
    Mike LoManaco Posts: 974
    edited August 2009
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Panties up yer crack, Mike?

    Absolutely NOT necessary, and, again, contributing NOTHING. I am just defending myself and answering questions people like '**** have been flinging at me. Please don't contribute to this cage match, Light.
  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2009
    Mike,

    I don't want to hurt your feelings and I am not going to criticize your review. But can you make it a bit shorter and to the point? I don't have a whole night to read both post 1 and 2. A Summary of the review would be nice.

    I've seen the movie and it's nothing there to put on the shelf at home.

    What's with the reporting Ricardo to the Mods? I am afraid we just don't do that in this forum! We have options including one to one brawl, etc. :)
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
This discussion has been closed.