SBR/SBL pre-out Denon / RCA Dual input Sunfire

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Bernal
Bernal Posts: 991
edited June 2009 in Electronics
It is convenient to use the Sunfire CAPACITY DUAL RCA INPUTS (SEE ATTACHED (R/L Rear) connect outlets SBR / SBL the DENON 4308Ci not use.
Connect The amplifier in the signal to take advantage of this channel and the best effects separate input signal and thus let the Sunfire with the speakers handle the mixture:confused:


01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport (change for a OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player will be available soon)
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
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  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited June 2009
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    I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

    What does it sound like???????

    Jimmy
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    jimmydep wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

    What does it sound like???????

    Jimmy

    Hello ...
    It is an idea that I have read the manuals.
    Ok. If you put the processor in 5.1 follows the same rules defined (Dolby, DTS, etc.). And tried to get the best performance. If you put the processor in 7.1 surround and then add the side with the rear surround, you're playing dirty to the processor and the results can not predict. Only a specialist in these algorithms could explain what would happen and could vary from one to another type of surround (Dolby, DTS, etc.). This I think is the question?:confused::confused:
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  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited June 2009
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    Have you actually tried this or is it just theory?
    It looks like your taking 2 sources and combining them, why not let the processor do what it was designed to do.......
    The real question is: "what does it sound like".

    Jimmy
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    jimmydep wrote: »
    Have you actually tried this or is it just theory?
    It looks like your taking 2 sources and combining them, why not let the processor do what it was designed to do.......
    The real question is: "what does it sound like".

    Jimmy


    Theory based on the manuals.
    NO are two sources is a pre-amp and Amp
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  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited June 2009
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    from your drawing it looks to me that your taking the rear channel output and the surround output from the receiver and combining them at the amp.......I'm not quite sure what the benifit would be.
    Where have you seen this wiring diagram....It's not in my Sunfire manual
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    jimmydep wrote: »
    from your drawing it looks to me that your taking the rear channel output and the surround output from the receiver and combining them at the amp.......I'm not quite sure what the benifit would be.
    Where have you seen this wiring diagram....It's not in my Sunfire manual

    Is correct. That's the theory ....:confused:
    Sunfire Manual page 14 "System Configurations. Connetions Typical ..."
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  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited June 2009
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    I don't have a page 14, I'll go find one online..
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    jimmydep wrote: »
    I don't have a page 14, I'll go find one online..

    Ok.
    Page 14: Attachments
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  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited June 2009
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    Bernal wrote: »
    Ok.
    Page 14: Attachments

    Ok. This diagram shows a standard 5 speaker configuration, with each seperate channel from the receiver going to it's corresponding channel on the amp.

    In your original diagram your combining another rear surround channel with the rear channel, so you have two inputs into 1 channel on the amp.

    The wiring diagram in the manual does not match your wiring diagram.
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    1) If Lucasfilm and developed the Dolby Surround EX in response to demands for more control of the surround sound field of digital multichannel sound formats (Dolby Digital, DTS or SDDS) because if you limit it to the cinemas this implicit HT 5.1 .

    2) Strictly speaking, the Surround EX is an enhancement of the standard 5.1- channel scheme.

    3) If Surround EX uses the techniques of the original Dolby Surround matrix encoding the third surround channel, called "Surround Back" or SB (ie, "effects"), in channels of discrete surround left (SL or "Surround Left) and right (SR or Surround Right") in the same way as a center channel is encoded in the two side channels of a mix encoded in Dolby Surround. Moreover, the extraction procedure of the channel is the same as that used in the Dolby Pro-Logic to extract the center channel: SL + SR = SB.

    4) Playing with directional logic circuits in the decoder, corriege if I am wrong, it gives an effect as rewired the SB channel without splitting ... reaching EX DTS 5.1 to a system for domestic use.
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  • jimmydep
    jimmydep Posts: 1,305
    edited June 2009
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    Have to go do some work, I'll post later
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    jimmydep wrote: »
    Ok. This diagram shows a standard 5 speaker configuration, with each seperate channel from the receiver going to it's corresponding channel on the amp.

    In your original diagram your combining another rear surround channel with the rear channel, so you have two inputs into 1 channel on the amp.

    The wiring diagram in the manual does not match your wiring diagram.

    Diagram page. 14 is 5.1 = 5.1.
    My Pre-Amp is 7.1.
    That's the theory.:rolleyes:
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    jimmydep wrote: »
    have to go do some work, i'll post later

    ok.;);)
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    Bernal wrote: »
    It is convenient to use the Sunfire CAPACITY DUAL RCA INPUTS (SEE ATTACHED (R/L Rear) connect outlets SBR / SBL the DENON 4308Ci not use.
    Connect The amplifier in the signal to take advantage of this channel and the best effects separate input signal and thus let the Sunfire with the speakers handle the mixture:confused:


    01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
    02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
    03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
    04) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport (change for a OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player will be available soon)
    05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
    06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
    07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
    08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
    09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
    10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
    11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)

    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    IMO: Possibly....:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited June 2009
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    To the best of my knowledge, there would be absolutely no reason to, or benefit from, this connection method.

    I'm not sure if this would damage the amp...but I wouldn't be trying it myself.

    What you're doing is combining the surround and the surround back channels into one channel at the amp. What are you hoping to accomplish by doing this?
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    To the best of my knowledge, there would be absolutely no reason to, or benefit from, this connection method.

    I'm not sure if this would damage the amp...but I wouldn't be trying it myself.

    What you're doing is combining the surround and the surround back channels into one channel at the amp. What are you hoping to accomplish by doing this?

    Theory.

    It is an idea that I have read the manuals.

    It was a question of time. The effect. Combining the surround and surround back channels in a channel on the amplifier

    "Another option that is becoming more common on 7.1 channel receivers is the use of Bi-amping. How this works is that if you have front channel Speakers that have separate speaker connections for the midrange/tweeters and the woofers (I am not referring to the subwoofer, but the woofers in your front speakers).

    You can reassign the amplifiers running the 6th and 7th channels to your front channels. Then enables you to retain a full 5.1 channel setup, but still add two additional channels of amplification to your front left and right speakers.

    Using the separate speakers connections for the 6th and 7th channel on your bi-ampable speakers, you can double the power delivered to your front left and right channels. Your front mid-range/tweeters end up running off of the main L/R channels and your front speakers woofers running off your 6th and 7th channel Bi-amp connections.

    The procedure for this type of setup is explained and illustrated in the user manuals for many 7.1 channel receivers. However, as I mentioned earlier, although this is becoming a more common feature, but is not included in all 7.1 channel receivers.    "
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited June 2009
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    This is completely different. It's not as if you'd be driving the speakers with any additional power.

    You're doubling up the signal from the pre-amp, which doesn't create any power at all. All of the power comes from the power amp. If anything, this is like the opposite of bi-amping.(:confused:)

    I would think that could be bad for either the channels on your amp, or your speakers too. You're sending a single channel, 2 channels of information. This can't be a good thing.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    .... You're sending a single channel, 2 channels of information. This can't be a good thing.

    That's the idea ... is to create a Y in channels
    This is the best opinion on the subject, thanks.
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    I think: 1) If the processor is set as 7.1. 2) Just add the surround to the rear surround side. 3) will be playing dirty to the processor and the results can not predict.
    Will be better or worse (50% vs 50%) and altered the equation ... in the mix ... AVR because of happening but natural reaches of the RCA Amp and then to the speakers who must do the translation.
    I believe that only a specialist in these algorithms could explain what would happen and could vary from one to another type of surround (Dolby, DTS, etc.). This I think is the question?
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited June 2009
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    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    This is completely different. It's not as if you'd be driving the speakers with any additional power.

    You're doubling up the signal from the pre-amp, which doesn't create any power at all. All of the power comes from the power amp. If anything, this is like the opposite of bi-amping.(:confused:)

    I would think that could be bad for either the channels on your amp, or your speakers too. You're sending a single channel, 2 channels of information. This can't be a good thing.

    I agree; I can't exactly make out your preamp outputs on the first jpg, but nothing good will come of this....
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited June 2009
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    TNRabbit wrote: »
    I agree; I can't exactly make out your preamp outputs on the first jpg, but nothing good will come of this....
    Hi,
    This is an important forum. Therefore a lead and learn. I have learned from your responses.
    Thanks to all
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