Affordable Dac? Or new Pre-amp

concealer404
concealer404 Posts: 7,440
edited June 2009 in Electronics
After testing and auditioning new speakers, as i thought they were my weak point (they are ONE, just not the worst), i've decided that i need to do something so i can take advantage of the SPDIF output on my cd player. The analog outputs sound like crap. I've tested cables, to no noticeable worthwhile improvement.

The real nail in the coffin is that if i run the same CD player to my Pioneer VXS-50 using the SPDIF to my Paradigm Titans and a Mirage Omni S8, it sounds almost twice as good as running that cd player via interconnects to the Adcom/Onkyo/Esprit/RW-10D setup. This shouldn't happen.

The sound i get from my Sansui tuna through the same setup sounds better at times.

The mediocre analog signal from this cd player seems to be documented in numerous places online.

So i've come to the conclusion that i need one or more of the below, keeping a fairly low budget:

1) DAC
2) Preamp w/ SPDIF input
3) New cd player

I'd like to stay away from option 3, as i LOVE the cd player using the optical output, and it makes for a dandy bedroom dvd player as well.

Let's set a budget of $300 or below. What should i be looking at for options 1 or 2? Which option should i go with? I'd be inclined to think option 1, as it will carry over to new systems i may put together in the future, and i have no HUGE complaints with my preamp. (Other than no remote, no sub out, and no optical input.) Come to think of it, that doesn't sound too good, does it? :p

Any help is much appreciated. :D
I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
Post edited by concealer404 on
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Comments

  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited June 2009
    Look at the Cambridge Audio DacMagic. It is $400 new, but check the used market.
    Venom
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  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited June 2009
    The advantages of a standalone DAC is usually in the design of the power supply and analog stages; it's unfortunate but these are two of the most expensive areas. Quite honestly I haven't heard anything that is 'cheap' that makes a sonic 'leap' in performance. My starting point would be a Benchmark...which is out of your price range. I would look for improvement's in your system elsewhere. Proper positioning of speakers can work wonders.
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  • thuffman03
    thuffman03 Posts: 1,325
    edited June 2009
    Get a good tube cd player. I have a Carver SD/A490t and it is one of the best cd players I have ever heard.
    Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,440
    edited June 2009
    Adcom GDA 600 or 700 are outstanding units and while expensive when new are cheap on the used market.

    In your price range it's about as nice a sounding unit as you'll find. Extreme care was taken in the analog and PS sections of these units. I haven't found much below $1K that I like better than the GDA 600. They got it right the first time.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited June 2009
    What do you guys think of the review in TODAY's Playback Mag...on Music Fidelity)s V-DAC box....a lot of claims are made in that review for only 299.?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2009
    cnh wrote: »
    What do you guys think of the review in TODAY's Playback Mag...on Music Fidelity)s V-DAC box....a lot of claims are made in that review for only 299.?

    cnh
    Do you have a linky to the review and details of that unit?MF have designed a number very good DAC's over years so they certainly have the know how.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2009
    venomclan wrote: »
    Look at the Cambridge Audio DacMagic. It is $400 new, but check the used market.
    Venom

    This.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited June 2009
    Am i going about this the right way? Even if i just swap the stuff within the rack, and don't touch the speaker placement, there's a night and day difference when going between analog and digital outputs on the cd player, even if i keep the Pioneer VSX-50 for both.

    I appreciate everyone's input so far, keep it coming! :D
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2009
    When using the analog out of your CDP, you're using the CDP's DAC. When using the coax/optical out, you're using the DAC of whatever component it's connected to, in your case, your receiver.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2009
    cnh wrote: »
    Music Fidelity)s V-DAC box....a lot of claims are made in that review for only 299.?

    cnh
    I found a bit of info on the V DAC.Impressive in that it uses a dual differential DAC (BB-DSD1792) and a sample rate converter(SRC4392) in a unit that sells for a mere $299.A few years ago this chip pairing would have only been found in far more expensive DAC's.In fact the 1792 is one of the most widely used DAC chips found in hi end DAC's and CDP's.
    MF seem to have the right pieces in place for the digital section but I could'nt find out any details of what op-amps they are using for the all important analog stage.The quality of opamps used in the I/V conversion and output buffer stages will have a big influence on SQ.
    I would really like to here one of these budget number crunchers.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited June 2009
    Here's the review link....For the MF V-DAC..

    http://playback.avguide.com/issue/20

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Big Dawg
    Big Dawg Posts: 2,005
    edited June 2009
    cnh wrote: »
    What do you guys think of the review in TODAY's Playback Mag...on Music Fidelity)s V-DAC box....a lot of claims are made in that review for only 299.?

    cnh

    Here's the link. Very interesting......

    http://playback.avguide.com/issue/20
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited June 2009
    Face wrote: »
    When using the analog out of your CDP, you're using the CDP's DAC. When using the coax/optical out, you're using the DAC of whatever component it's connected to, in your case, your receiver.

    Roight. I don't like the way the reciever sounds at the moment, because i don't have the remote necessary to get to a lot of the options, though. So i've pretty much decided that the DAC of the cdp sucks.

    Would it make more sense to get a standalone DAC at this point, or update my preamp from my Adcom GTP-400?
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited June 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Adcom GDA 600 or 700 are outstanding units and while expensive when new are cheap on the used market.

    In your price range it's about as nice a sounding unit as you'll find. Extreme care was taken in the analog and PS sections of these units. I haven't found much below $1K that I like better than the GDA 600. They got it right the first time.

    H9

    I've found a few online.... they have SPDIF in, yes?

    The MF V-Dac looks good to me, as well. :)
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited June 2009
    concealer404 wrote: »
    I've found a few online.... they have SPDIF in, yes?
    Yes coax and Toslink.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • danz1906
    danz1906 Posts: 5,144
    edited June 2009
    concealer404 wrote: »
    I've found a few online.... they have SPDIF in, yes?

    The MF V-Dac looks good to me, as well. :)

    For the money it cant be beat.
    Linn AV5140 fronts
    Linn AV5120 Center
    Linn AV5140 Rears
    M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
    Odyssey Mono-Blocs
    SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D
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