Horizontal vs Vertical Bi-amping for Stereo and Ht

Pinktulip7Pinktulip7 Posts: 249
edited May 2009 in 2 Channel Audio
I understand logic of Horizontal vs Vertical Bi-amping but is it good for Ht setup?or only for Stereo?Personally Vertical Bi-Amping make no sense on Home
Theater Setup!!!!prove me if I am wrong?
TV :>Panasonic TC-P55VT50
RECEIVER :> HARMAN KARDON AVR 7300
FRONT :> L & R :> POLK RTI A9 500 W
AMP :1> PARASOUND HALO A21 250 W
AMP :2> EMOTIVA UPA-1 200 W
CENTER :> POLK LSiM 706c 250 W
SURROUND SIDE :> POLK RTi A3 150 W
SURROUND REAR :>POLK FXI A6 150 W
DVD PLAYER(HD) :>TOSHIBA HD X-A2
DVD PLAYER(BLU-RAY) :>Panasonic DMP-UB900
POWER CONDITIONER :> PANAMAX M5400-EX
SUBWOOFER :A> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Front
SUBWOOFER :B> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Rear
Post edited by Pinktulip7 on

Comments

  • SystemsSystems Posts: 14,998
    edited May 2009
    Pinktulip7 wrote: »
    I understand logic of Horizontal vs Vertical Bi-amping but is it good for Ht setup?or only for Stereo?Personally Vertical Bi-Amping make no sense on Home
    Theater Setup!!!!prove me if I am wrong?
    If you mean passive biamping (as in using the integral passive crossover) then IMO you will gain a few extra db of power headroom but not much else.If the amps are low power units this may be useful.
    Keep in mind that with passive bi amping the gain's of the amps must be exactly the same or the frequency balance of the speaker will not be as designed.

    I believe an actively biamped system has some important advantages over one that is passively biamped.

    As for a horizontal vs vertical arangement ,assuming both amps are the same I don't think there would be much of a difference between the two methods.
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  • Pinktulip7Pinktulip7 Posts: 249
    edited May 2009
    No active Bi-Amping...is Vertical or Horizontal Bi-Amping make any difference in Home Theater?
    TV :>Panasonic TC-P55VT50
    RECEIVER :> HARMAN KARDON AVR 7300
    FRONT :> L & R :> POLK RTI A9 500 W
    AMP :1> PARASOUND HALO A21 250 W
    AMP :2> EMOTIVA UPA-1 200 W
    CENTER :> POLK LSiM 706c 250 W
    SURROUND SIDE :> POLK RTi A3 150 W
    SURROUND REAR :>POLK FXI A6 150 W
    DVD PLAYER(HD) :>TOSHIBA HD X-A2
    DVD PLAYER(BLU-RAY) :>Panasonic DMP-UB900
    POWER CONDITIONER :> PANAMAX M5400-EX
    SUBWOOFER :A> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Front
    SUBWOOFER :B> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Rear
  • SystemsSystems Posts: 14,998
    edited May 2009
    Pinktulip7 wrote: »
    No active Bi-Amping..
    OK so the passive crossover will be bypassed?
    Vertical or Horizontal Bi-Amping make any difference in Home Theater?
    "Active" biamping be it vertical or horizontal will IMO have advantages in both HT and 2 ch setups.This assuming ofcourse that the outboard active crossover has been designed for the speaker it's being used with.
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  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited May 2009
    I doubt you'll hear much of a difference if the speakers power requirements are already met with your existing amp. Don't forget that by doubling the power, you only increase spl by 3db.
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 13,939
    edited May 2009
    Pinktulip7 wrote: »
    I understand logic of Horizontal vs Vertical Bi-amping but is it good for Ht setup?or only for Stereo?Personally Vertical Bi-Amping make no sense on Home Theater Setup!!!!prove me if I am wrong?

    At the risk of, once again, showing my ignorance, I have to admit this is the first time I have seen, or at least remember, the term “horizontal versus vertical bi-amping”. When I read this my thought was, “Is this something else I am going to have to spend money on.”

    I enjoy coming across new, at least to me, terms for existing ideas. This reminds me of when I first heard “synergy”, “paradigm” or “legacy” in the computer network world. My first thought was, “What are they talking about.”, and then, after learning the meaning, I realized it is just a different word for something else.

    On the other hand, I understand the benefit of having a unique name for the various methods to attach a speaker to an amplifier.

    Thanks to Wiki for a fast, inexpensive explanation. Hopefully, it is semi-accurate.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-amping
    Bud - Silicon Valley

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  • amulfordamulford Posts: 5,198
    edited May 2009
    that's fairly accurate
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  • Pinktulip7Pinktulip7 Posts: 249
    edited May 2009
    I did spent lots of time experimenting Vertical and Horizontal Bi-Amping and I came to the conclusion that I like the Sound of Horizontal Bi-Amping...much more depth in Bass and clear (Sweet)details in Mid and High......I would say 10% sound improvement over my previous setup, playing very low(-54)on my HK 7300
    TV :>Panasonic TC-P55VT50
    RECEIVER :> HARMAN KARDON AVR 7300
    FRONT :> L & R :> POLK RTI A9 500 W
    AMP :1> PARASOUND HALO A21 250 W
    AMP :2> EMOTIVA UPA-1 200 W
    CENTER :> POLK LSiM 706c 250 W
    SURROUND SIDE :> POLK RTi A3 150 W
    SURROUND REAR :>POLK FXI A6 150 W
    DVD PLAYER(HD) :>TOSHIBA HD X-A2
    DVD PLAYER(BLU-RAY) :>Panasonic DMP-UB900
    POWER CONDITIONER :> PANAMAX M5400-EX
    SUBWOOFER :A> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Front
    SUBWOOFER :B> SVS SB16-Ultra 1500 W Rear
  • poteepotee Posts: 627
    edited May 2009
    I know I asked the question, the answer is a little over my head. I did read the wiki article and over time I think I'll get. Thanks for knowledge
  • SerendipitySerendipity Posts: 6,982
    edited May 2009
    Is this basically driving speakers with two different configurations?

    1. Using one amp for the left speaker and one amp for the right speaker
    2. Using half of each amp for each speaker, i.e. the lows being powered by one channel and the highs being powered by a different channel?

    I would think using one amp for each speaker would be a better way of bi-amping, because if you were using the method in # 2 and the gain controls of the amps were set slightly different, the tonality of the speakers would be off.

    Using the method in # 1 ensures that one amp drives both the highs and lows of the same speaker.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
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  • SerendipitySerendipity Posts: 6,982
    edited May 2009
    Also, if using one amp for the highs and the other for lows, wouldn't the amp for the low frequencies get strained more / used more heavily / use more power?
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
    polkaudio DSWPro550WI
    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
  • TECHNOKIDTECHNOKID Posts: 4,323
    edited May 2009
    appadv wrote: »
    Also, if using one amp for the highs and the other for lows, wouldn't the amp for the low frequencies get strained more / used more heavily / use more power?
    Yes, you are correct thus the advantage of vertical over horizontal. Check the above provided wiki:
    Vertical bi-amping has the advantage of not having to use a single amp to power both bass sections, which can be very taxing on the amplifier, especially at higher volume or if the bass driver has a particularly low impedance at certain frequencies.
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  • SystemsSystems Posts: 14,998
    edited May 2009
    appadv wrote: »

    I would think using one amp for each speaker would be a better way of bi-amping, because if you were using the method in # 2 and the gain controls of the amps were set slightly different, the tonality of the speakers would be off.
    As I pointed out in post#2 ,when passive biamping the gains of the amps must be identical so as to not cause a frequency imbalance.Aswell both amps would need to be identical to vertically biamp.
    appadv wrote: »
    Also, if using one amp for the highs and the other for lows, wouldn't the amp for the low frequencies get strained more / used more heavily / use more power?
    Maybe in theory,but in practice it would depend on the actual design of the amp and the difficulty of the load presented to the amp by the speaker.IMO if two identical ,reasonably powered amps were used on a relatively easy to drive speaker ,then there would be negligable differences between the vertical and horizontal arrangements.
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  • SystemsSystems Posts: 14,998
    edited May 2009
    I should clarify my statement.
    GV#27 wrote: »

    Yes the woofer sections will require a lot more power than will the tweeter sections,maybe in theory this gives vertical biamping the advantage but in practice it would depend on the actual design of the amp and the difficulty of the load presented to the amp by the speaker.IMO if two identical ,reasonably powered amps were used on a relatively easy to drive speaker ,then there would be negligable differences between the vertical and horizontal arrangements.
    Testing
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  • wutadumsn23wutadumsn23 Posts: 3,704
    edited May 2009
    Wow, there is a lot of gray matter floating around in here, lol. Very informative thread and Wiki article though, I like potee will understand it after I read it a few times, lol.
    HT Rig
    Receiver- Onkyo TX-SR806
    Mains- Polk Audio Monitor 70
    Center- Polk Audio CS2
    Surrounds- Polk Audio TSi 500's :D
    Sub- Polk Audio PSW125
    Retired- Polk Audio Monitor 40's
    T.V.- 60" Sony SXRD KDS-60A2000 LCoS
    Blu-Ray- 80 GB PS3


    2 CH rig (in progress)
    Polk Audio Monitor 10A's :cool:

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  • Music JoeMusic Joe Posts: 461
    edited May 2009
    Could be Horizontal passive Bi-amping would be an advantage in the case of the many bass bin + monitor or multi [double-triple] bass unit floorstanders that are common these days.

    Stereophile review noted the Klipsch P39 triple bass driver low end had more drive difficulty than the efficient horn top end which yielded a bass shy sound. Maybe a recipe of SS/Tube magic, SS/SS or a chip-amp/ampzilla on speakers such as these.
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