How many Watts is Enough???

bdtae5656
bdtae5656 Posts: 235
edited April 2009 in Electronics
Im currently powering my L/R/C w/300 watts, its only a three channel amp. Im wanting to add onto my HT and get another amp for the rears. Do I buy another amp to power them or do I sell my EMO 3 and upgrade to a EMO 5??? The Emotiva XPA-5 has more watts per channel but will that really make a difference to my LSI set-up?
TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
Mains: Lsi m 705
C:Lsi m 706
Rears: Lsi m 703
Sub: Epik Empire
Pre:Marantz AV 7005
Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
Blueray: Opp 93
A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
Post edited by bdtae5656 on
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  • blakeh
    blakeh Posts: 491
    edited April 2009
    This is a good question and should be an innocuous one, but you will receive a range of answers all of which will contradict the others and then the "that's not my opinion, that's a fact" comments will start. With that being said, let me relay my opinion which may or may not match up with your own experience...

    Quality watts are what matters for fidelity. Quantity of watts only affects decibel (volume) level. You could power your LSI speakers very nicely with a quality 40watt amp and they would play at more than a reasonable level. However, to get earth-shaking sound that many people want out of their home theater systems, you need to add wattage. I would think that 300 watts would be plenty to drive LSI speakers to insane levels.

    It's really up to you whether you want to add a 2-channel amp that matched your current Emotiva or trade in the 3-channel for a 5-channel. I don't think under these circumstances that you really need more than 300 watts so the XPA-5 may not be worth it.
    /COLOR] [U][URL="http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=68366"][COLOR="Blue"]My Rigs[/U][/COLOR][/URL] [COLOR="Red" Balanced Audio Technology | Revel | Dodd | Monarchy | PS Audio | MIT | Polk | Etc.
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  • bdtae5656
    bdtae5656 Posts: 235
    edited April 2009
    I would think it would be enough! It sounds great dont get me wrong!
    TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
    Mains: Lsi m 705
    C:Lsi m 706
    Rears: Lsi m 703
    Sub: Epik Empire
    Pre:Marantz AV 7005
    Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
    Blueray: Opp 93
    A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
    Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited April 2009
    In your situation I would anticipate the improvement to be marginal at best, but nothing like a big honking man-amplifier to drive your HT with. I do not see a sub listed but would think a dedicated sub would give you more improvement for a home theater.

    If you are interested in musical sound I would sell the Emotiva and buy a hi-fi 2-ch amplifier to drive your fronts, they are fine speakers. Some of us visited last year with Matt Polk at his home, he was driving some LSi-9's with Threshold mono-blocks, I believe they were a thousand watts each, so there you go, anyway, several members attending the gathering at his home remarked on how good the speakers sounded, for the record an ARC tubed pre was used with a Marantz SACD source cant recall the model but it was higher end.

    RT1
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited April 2009
    If you plan on adding some LSI-FX's then get a 5 channel amp.

    LSI's LOVE power, so I wouldn't get less than 200wpc @8ohms. But alot of people on here have given them even more & gotten improvements in the quality of the sound.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • POIDOG
    POIDOG Posts: 391
    edited April 2009
    On the other hand, should you decide to run FX's in the rear, a UPA-2 with that XPA-3 could be just what the Doc ordered. IMO. :)
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2009
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    Some of us visited last year with Matt Polk at his home, he was driving some LSi-9's with Threshold mono-blocks, I believe they were a thousand watts each, so there you go, anyway, several members attending the gathering at his home remarked on how good the speakers sounded, for the record an ARC tubed pre was used with a Marantz SACD source cant recall the model but it was higher end.

    The amps were Threshold SA-1's. I wrote the model # down and looked them up when I got home.

    These specs are from a review of them on Stereophile.com:

    Solid-state monoblock power amplifier.
    Rated power: 160W into 8 ohms, 300W into 4 ohms.
    Current capability: 40A continuous, 60A peak.
    Frequency response: 7Hzצ100kHz, +0/–3dB. Voltage gain: 26.5dB.
    Input impedance 75k ohms.
    Dimensions: 19" W by 8¾" H by 19" D. Weight: 78½ lbs.
    Price: $6000/pair (1986, $12,000 in 2009 dollars).
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,497
    edited April 2009
    Nelson is Da 'Man :D:p
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • devani
    devani Posts: 1,497
    edited April 2009
    I do have LSi15 and XPA-5 on my setup and when I run in 2 channel mode, you do get more presence....like everyone said you will notice the difference but it's not going to be significant...
    Video: LG 55LN5100/Samsung LNT4065F
    Receiver: HK AVR445
    Source: OPPO BDP-93
    HT: POLK SPEAKERS RTi6, FXi3, CSi5, VTF-3 MK2
    2Ch system: MC2105, AR-XA, AR-2A, AR9, BX-300, OPPO BDP-83
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  • bdtae5656
    bdtae5656 Posts: 235
    edited April 2009
    POIDOG wrote: »
    On the other hand, should you decide to run FX's in the rear, a UPA-2 with that XPA-3 could be just what the Doc ordered. IMO. :)

    I've been thinking that....or going with the Emo-5 and using Lsi15's as rears!
    TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
    Mains: Lsi m 705
    C:Lsi m 706
    Rears: Lsi m 703
    Sub: Epik Empire
    Pre:Marantz AV 7005
    Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
    Blueray: Opp 93
    A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
    Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
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  • seafire
    seafire Posts: 459
    edited April 2009
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    In your situation I would anticipate the improvement to be marginal at best, but nothing like a big honking man-amplifier to drive your HT with. I do not see a sub listed but would think a dedicated sub would give you more improvement for a home theater.

    If you are interested in musical sound I would sell the Emotiva and buy a hi-fi 2-ch amplifier to drive your fronts, they are fine speakers. Some of us visited last year with Matt Polk at his home, he was driving some LSi-9's with Threshold mono-blocks, I believe they were a thousand watts each, so there you go, anyway, several members attending the gathering at his home remarked on how good the speakers sounded, for the record an ARC tubed pre was used with a Marantz SACD source cant recall the model but it was higher end.

    RT1
    I agree with Reeltrouble.Move the emotiva to your rears and center channel and buy a good quality 2 channel stereo amp for your mains.Look here on the forum and other places as there are some high quality stereo amps available second hand that would really help to enhance your stereo listening.When multi channel is called for the emotiva is there to use as surround channels are not that important :)
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 26,000
    edited April 2009
    seafire wrote: »
    I agree with Reeltrouble.Move the emotiva to your rears and center channel and buy a good quality 2 channel stereo amp for your mains.Look here on the forum and other places as there are some high quality stereo amps available second hand that would really help to enhance your stereo listening.When multi channel is called for the emotiva is there to use as surround channels are not that important :)


    I think this is the most intelligent post you have ever made Seafire!:p I second Mr. Seafire. Get a strong two channel amp and enjoy!
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon MiND2 Shunyata Triton/Typhon Rotel RP9400 Turntable

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • thuffman03
    thuffman03 Posts: 1,325
    edited April 2009
    Remember it takes 10x the power to double the volume. That being said if you are happy with how loud you can rock the room then you should be looking at what headroom you have left on your amp. If you are not using 200 watts to make your ears blead then you should be fine. If you are maxing out the amp then you should look to getting a bigger one so that the amp will have more head room to deliver quality sound at the higher volumes you want.

    Just my 2 cents for imput.
    Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t
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  • bdtae5656
    bdtae5656 Posts: 235
    edited April 2009
    This may be stupid BUT........ok lets say I do get a Emotiva XPA-5 (5x350watts), then get a pair of LSI FX for the rear....what happenes to the watts that arent being used for the rear??? Do they go to the L/R/C
    TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
    Mains: Lsi m 705
    C:Lsi m 706
    Rears: Lsi m 703
    Sub: Epik Empire
    Pre:Marantz AV 7005
    Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
    Blueray: Opp 93
    A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
    Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,546
    edited April 2009
    there will never, ever, be enough watts. Ever.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • bdtae5656
    bdtae5656 Posts: 235
    edited April 2009
    If a speakers peak power is at 300watts and you send it 350 watts...what happens to the extra 50 watts???
    TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
    Mains: Lsi m 705
    C:Lsi m 706
    Rears: Lsi m 703
    Sub: Epik Empire
    Pre:Marantz AV 7005
    Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
    Blueray: Opp 93
    A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
    Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited April 2009
    You have enough power when your turn on the amp and your main breaker pops. Until then, you suck.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2009
    Just when I thought dimming the lights was enough.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • bdtae5656
    bdtae5656 Posts: 235
    edited April 2009
    So I got my RA number for my Emotiva XPA-3 today....and going w/ the Emotiva XPA-5! Then im going to buy FX LSI for my rears! Thanks for every bodies words of wisdom
    TV:Sony Bravia XBR4 52'
    Mains: Lsi m 705
    C:Lsi m 706
    Rears: Lsi m 703
    Sub: Epik Empire
    Pre:Marantz AV 7005
    Amp:Sunfire TGA-7400
    Blueray: Opp 93
    A/V Component: Panamax M5100-PM
    Cables: Signal Cable, White Zombie, MIT, Pepster's power cables
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  • devani
    devani Posts: 1,497
    edited April 2009
    well, let us know the outcome, I am interested in the LSi25 and XPA-5 combo....
    Video: LG 55LN5100/Samsung LNT4065F
    Receiver: HK AVR445
    Source: OPPO BDP-93
    HT: POLK SPEAKERS RTi6, FXi3, CSi5, VTF-3 MK2
    2Ch system: MC2105, AR-XA, AR-2A, AR9, BX-300, OPPO BDP-83
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited April 2009
    Here's another option, when you get your XPA-5 in, use it and the XPA-3 to Bi-amp the LSi25s just for grins and giggles (while using the other 3 channels of the XPA-5 to power your center and rears). I did something similiar with my RTi12s and had great results. BTW with the XPA-3, when you are just using two channels the wpc is 400 for a 4 ohm load. With the XPA-5, I think it's two chanel rating is 500 wpc for a 4 ohm load.
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  • quadzilla
    quadzilla Posts: 1,543
    edited April 2009
    What is this word "enough" that you use? Your language is strange to me, kind sir.
    Turntable: Empire 208
    Arm: Rega 300
    Cart: Shelter 501 III
    Phono Pre: dsachs consulting
    Digital: Marantz SACD 30n
    Pre: Conrad Johnson ET3 SE
    Amp: Conrad Johnson Premier 350
    Cables: Cardas Neutral Reference
    Speakers: SDA 2.3TL, heavily modified
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited April 2009
    Others may disagree (I did not read all the responses) but really once you get into a separate amplifier - it is all about quality, not quantity. Case in point - I would take a 20year old Krell KSA-50 (50 watts per channel) over any emotiva amp currently made. Probably over most of the outlaws as well....

    Getting an amp that sounds better than a receiver is a no-brainer, but getting an amp that sounds better than another amp takes more research than just looking at watts per channel.

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited April 2009
    Says the man who has this running his LSI's. :D:p:D

    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited April 2009
    I never said watts were bad, just not all you should look at. :)
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
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  • jacob.simpson
    jacob.simpson Posts: 481
    edited April 2009
    As long as i dont go deaf, and rattle my foundation, break my heart, empty my wallet, burn my power cords, fry my speakers,:D.....
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