PIONEER SC-05: 2 channel savior
Comments
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comfortablycurt wrote: »So I guess I'm buying the booze then huh?:p Works for me...;)
Sounds like a great idea... Contributing to a minor.:rolleyes:
BTW, it would be a good idea if you two got on messenger instead of mucking of a perfectly good Pioneer thread. You guys can talk all your illegal activitives on there. -
Ok, I think it worked.
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Sounds like a great idea... Contributing to a minor.:rolleyes:
BTW, it would be a good idea if you two got on messenger instead of mucking of a perfectly good Pioneer thread. You guys can talk all your illegal activitives on there.
Yeah...I apologize. It's gotten a bit off topic I suppose...to say the least.The nirvana inducer-
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Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's -
Looks like you need another drink... Go to bed little girl.
Seriously, this is an audio board. Post your pics over here:
http://detroit.craigslist.org/ers/
WARNING! Do not open link at workplace! -
yeah i don't wan to get anyone banned (including myself) was just having some fun. OP said he didn't mind though, but I don't suppose he imagined it would go on this long...lol sorry.
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Looks like you need another drink... Go to bed little girl.
Hey, I'm not a "little girl" I'll be 21 this summer mind you. And yeah, I need another stiff one :eek: er, drink that is...
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Sorry you guys and to OP. I got off topic just a smidge. I was bored and having fun with a few members (lol, did I say "members") But I had a few drinks tonight and had a good time here. But I'll behave myself from now on, promise.
G'night, Terra -
Did you happen to get that quote from Audioholics?:rolleyes:
Really, do you have one of these? Take those AH reviews with a grain of salt, they are so damn biased it's not even funny. Take real owner reviews for example, check out the owners thread at AVS.
hey perhaps if you took the time to read this thread you will see that i previously owned this receiver. I have 4ohm speakers, so i know first hand...;)
dont be so quick to push me aside...Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
bigred7078 wrote: »hey perhaps if you took the time to read this thread you will see that i previously owned this receiver. I have 4ohm speakers, so i know first hand...;)
dont be so quick to push me aside...
Sorry, didn't see that you previously owned the new Elite. I just read that exact same quote on AH. There are many owners of these on AVS running full blown 4ohm speakers with no issues. BTW, what did you do with the receiver, sell it already? What didn't you like about it?
I have no idea about your speakers or the sensitivity on them, but they will drive my LSi15's just fine. However, I use the 07 as a pre/pro now anyway, I couldn't be happier with it. Sounds beautiful compared to my older 74TXVi Elite. -
Sorry, didn't see that you previously owned the new Elite. I just read that exact same quote on AH. There are many owners of these on AVS running full blown 4ohm speakers with no issues. BTW, what did you do with the receiver, sell it already? What didn't you like about it?
I have no idea about your speakers or the sensitivity on them, but they will drive my LSi15's just fine. However, I use the 07 as a pre/pro now anyway, I couldn't be happier with it. Sounds beautiful compared to my older 74TXVi Elite.
Well i personally spend alot of time comparing different receivers. So i buy and resell....ALOT.
Most recent purchases have been Marantz SR6003, Yamaha RX-V3900, Denon 2809ci, Denon 3808ci, Pioneer SC-05, Emotiva DMC-1, Onkyo 805, and Emotiva LMC-1.
I was not implying the Pioneer was not good (i personally thought it was a fantastic unit), but its really not designed to handle low impedence/ low impedence swings. I read over tha audioholics review you were referring to, and honestly they came up with alot of the same conclusions as i did about its 4ohm capabilities.
But i also use everything as a processor as well since i have amps, i just like to test their capabilities.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
You have to post useful information.;)
I have Installed the Mighty sc09 with 7 4 ohm load speakers at 88db and It didn't have any issues. I know the amps are smaller and slighty different n the sc07, I have not however tested 4 ohm load on a sc07. I have run Det Tech's and Paradigms which are easy to drive.bigred7078 wrote: »Well i personally spend alot of time comparing different receivers. So i buy and resell....ALOT.
Most recent purchases have been Marantz SR6003, Yamaha RX-V3900, Denon 2809ci, Denon 3808ci, Pioneer SC-05, Emotiva DMC-1, Onkyo 805, and Emotiva LMC-1.
I was not implying the Pioneer was not good (i personally thought it was a fantastic unit), but its really not designed to handle low impedence/ low impedence swings. I read over tha audioholics review you were referring to, and honestly they came up with alot of the same conclusions as i did about its 4ohm capabilities.
But i also use everything as a processor as well since i have amps, i just like to test their capabilities.
Can you tell me more about your experience with 4 ohm load speakers on the sc07? I plan on bringing one home soon not to buy but to test. I have all 4 ohm load speakers(Dynaudio) and I know they suck the life out of everything I put them on. Currently I run a RMB1095 Rotel amp which drives them fine. I think they would be a excellent choice to test the sc07.
I find it funny about Elite receivers, even the sc09, they are rated only at 6 ohms but the sc09 is rated to drive a 4 ohm load only on the main channels. I asked the rep about this and he said that rating is conservative. They have tested all sc receivers with 4 ohms and they all passed. So I asked why the hell are they not rated to do so, all other Ice amps handle a 4 ohm load just fine and some double there output. He said for warranty reasons.
Honestly I was not really cool with that conversation but it didn't change my opinion of Elite receivers other then questions when harder to drive speakers come into play.
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Dan,
I've heard those same exact words. The other interesting part is the THX designation that the 07 and 09 received, I believe it is the Ultra2 classification? From what I understand under that THX specification alone, the receiver is suppose to support 4ohm loads to receive that classification even though Pioneer states otherwise.
BTW, please post your review when you get the 07 dialed in. I'm interested in hearing your results on this. -
I love my Elite also. I hope you get all the settings figured out, I have had my for some time and still dont know what all of them do.Anthem D2v
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I have Installed the Mighty sc09 with 7 4 ohm load speakers at 88db and It didn't have any issues. I know the amps are smaller and slighty different n the sc07, I have not however tested 4 ohm load on a sc07. I have run Det Tech's and Paradigms which are easy to drive.
Can you tell me more about your experience with 4 ohm load speakers on the sc07? I plan on bringing one home soon not to buy but to test. I have all 4 ohm load speakers(Dynaudio) and I know they suck the life out of everything I put them on. Currently I run a RMB1095 Rotel amp which drives them fine. I think they would be a excellent choice to test the sc07.
I find it funny about Elite receivers, even the sc09, they are rated only at 6 ohms but the sc09 is rated to drive a 4 ohm load only on the main channels. I asked the rep about this and he said that rating is conservative. They have tested all sc receivers with 4 ohms and they all passed. So I asked why the hell are they not rated to do so, all other Ice amps handle a 4 ohm load just fine and some double there output. He said for warranty reasons.
Honestly I was not really cool with that conversation but it didn't change my opinion of Elite receivers other then questions when harder to drive speakers come into play.
Dan
Yeah most receivers will drive 4ohm speakers. But how well is the real question. Which is exactly the reason Pioneer won't rate them as such. They WILL drive 4ohm speakers. But keep in mind 4ohm speakers vary in sensitivity quite a bit depending on which company you go with. Pioneer WILL NOT ever state that they will handle 4ohm loads because some **** will of course over drive his system by clipping it and either hurt the amp or the speakers as a result.
Now i have not ever tested the SC-09 so my comments are towards the SC-05/07.
In my current system i have Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands which are by no means super hard to drive at a sensitivity of 90db's. But they sound so much less compressed and the bass gets sooo much fuller with the addition of a good amount of power (external amp). The midrange just pushes through so elegantly. When i used the SC-05's internal amps to push the Viennas it sounded just fine at a lower volume. Then as soon as i started to crank it, it was thin sounding and the bass was greatly reduced. I even clipped the amp at one point in a Dave Grusin song (keep in mind the volume was quite high, i did not do any measurements so i cant tell you the db level sorry). I hooked up the pre-outs again to my amp and it was all better, back to the beautiful sound of the SC-05.
Now i have no doubts at some people's listening levels they will be fine with 4om speakers and the 05/07. But as you should know 4ohm speakers is just a nominal rating. Depending on the speaker there will be several dips below 4ohms, perhaps even as low as 1.5 ohms which is really going to give the pioneers ICEamps difficulty. But this all varies so its hard to say who would be affected and who would not, just really depends on the speakers used and the listneing habits of the individual. Now dont get me wrong im not point out the Pioneer only, this was just the topic of the thread so i pointed it out, IMO most receivers suffer with 4ohm speakers, thats why i like to recommend amps
Mantis if your company sells amps, or you have an amp lying around i suggest you demo the SC-05/07 with that as well when powering your hard to drive Dynaudios. You should hear quite a difference. For what they are the internal ICE amps of the Pio's are great, but they are not the same as some of the external ICEamps on the market that Wyred4Sound and Rotel and other companies use.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
We sell all kinds of amps which include NAD, B&K , Cambridge , Anthem , Krell . I'm gonna bring home a Sc07 to my house and test it in my system. I have a Rotel rmb1095 that I can preout to afterwards to test the preamp ability.bigred7078 wrote: »Yeah most receivers will drive 4ohm speakers. But how well is the real question. Which is exactly the reason Pioneer won't rate them as such. They WILL drive 4ohm speakers. But keep in mind 4ohm speakers vary in sensitivity quite a bit depending on which company you go with. Pioneer WILL NOT ever state that they will handle 4ohm loads because some **** will of course over drive his system by clipping it and either hurt the amp or the speakers as a result.
Now i have not ever tested the SC-09 so my comments are towards the SC-05/07.
In my current system i have Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands which are by no means super hard to drive at a sensitivity of 90db's. But they sound so much less compressed and the bass gets sooo much fuller with the addition of a good amount of power (external amp). The midrange just pushes through so elegantly. When i used the SC-05's internal amps to push the Viennas it sounded just fine at a lower volume. Then as soon as i started to crank it, it was thin sounding and the bass was greatly reduced. I even clipped the amp at one point in a Dave Grusin song (keep in mind the volume was quite high, i did not do any measurements so i cant tell you the db level sorry). I hooked up the pre-outs again to my amp and it was all better, back to the beautiful sound of the SC-05.
Now i have no doubts at some people's listening levels they will be fine with 4om speakers and the 05/07. But as you should know 4ohm speakers is just a nominal rating. Depending on the speaker there will be several dips below 4ohms, perhaps even as low as 1.5 ohms which is really going to give the pioneers ICEamps difficulty. But this all varies so its hard to say who would be affected and who would not, just really depends on the speakers used and the listneing habits of the individual. Now dont get me wrong im not point out the Pioneer only, this was just the topic of the thread so i pointed it out, IMO most receivers suffer with 4ohm speakers, thats why i like to recommend amps
Mantis if your company sells amps, or you have an amp lying around i suggest you demo the SC-05/07 with that as well when powering your hard to drive Dynaudios. You should hear quite a difference. For what they are the internal ICE amps of the Pio's are great, but they are not the same as some of the external ICEamps on the market that Wyred4Sound and Rotel and other companies use.
Since you got rid of the sc05, how did you like it as a preamp? I see you are now using a Marantz receive as a pre correct? How do you compare the 2 for 2 channel sound quality?
Vienna's are very nice, we used to carry them years ago(when I worked for Tweeter).
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Hi again. So sorry for my behavior last night. I was out of line and off topic. I was bored, had a few drinks and having some fun. But that's no excuse. I hope you guys will forgive me. I promise to behave from now on.
Bigred, since you've tried so many different receivers, how would you rate the Marantz 5003 to this Onkyo TX-SR606 Receiver? It's over a hundred bucks less than the Marantz and also has free shipping. Worth it to spend a little extra for the 5003 or would you say they're about the same? -
We sell all kinds of amps which include NAD, B&K , Cambridge , Anthem , Krell . I'm gonna bring home a Sc07 to my house and test it in my system. I have a Rotel rmb1095 that I can preout to afterwards to test the preamp ability.
Since you got rid of the sc05, how did you like it as a preamp? I see you are now using a Marantz receive as a pre correct? How do you compare the 2 for 2 channel sound quality?
Vienna's are very nice, we used to carry them years ago(when I worked for Tweeter).
Dan
cool you have lots of nice amps you should have some fun with them. The Rotel should do a fine job.
I loved the SC-05 as a pre, It did a great job as it was very natural. I never meant to keep it though, i just like to try different stuff alot so i can get an idea of what i REALLY like. I was more or less intrigued by the Marantz 6003 and bought it out of curiosity. I never really expected it to sound as good as it does. Is the pio better? Yup but not by alot IMO. I plan on getting the Emotiva UMC-1 next and see how it stacks up with its hefty spec sheet. Then if thats a solid performer i'll most likely try out the XMC-1.
The older Vienna classics were ok in my book, im a much bigger fan of the newer Grand series. But i wont keep these speakers forever as i need something to rock me for HT
, not that the Viennas dont do a good job, but they are voiced for music. They dont have the "fake" dynamics that alot of HT speakers have that really intensifies the experience :cool: Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
Hi again. So sorry for my behavior last night. I was out of line and off topic. I was bored, had a few drinks and having some fun. But that's no excuse. I hope you guys will forgive me. I promise to behave from now on.
Bigred, since you've tried so many different receivers, how would you rate the Marantz 5003 to this Onkyo TX-SR606 Receiver? It's over a hundred bucks less than the Marantz and also has free shipping. Worth it to spend a little extra for the 5003 or would you say they're about the same?
lol dont worry about it you did nothing wrong.
And IMHO the 5003 is worth alot more than $100 over the Onkyo. I just think its a better unit, im sure others may disagree, but thats just my personal experience with my system.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
Ya know what? I see now that I've asked enough off-topic questions and posted too many comments that don't pertain to OP's questions. So I'm outa here.
I'll find other threads that are discussing my interests and post my questions there. Thanks for all the help guys. And thanks for putting up with me, I know i can be a nuisance sometimes. 
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bigred7078 wrote: »lol dont worry about it you did nothing wrong.
And IMHO the 5003 is worth alot more than $100 over the Onkyo. I just think its a better unit, im sure others may disagree, but thats just my personal experience with my system.
Thanks bigred, you've been very helpful. I hope to see you in other threads as well.
OK guys, as you were.
-Terra -
If I were in the market for a new AVR I would go for the 05/07. The new ICEamps are very good in these AVRS and that's also to include the 09. My SC-07 sounds very detailed and clear. Granted I run my SC-07 as a pre, but the results as the OP stated are mind blowing. Best money spent and the features alone are enough to correct any problematic room setup. I only run 3 sources through mine, BD, HD DVD, Xbox 360, I like that it passes 1080p/24 to my JVC HD1 projector untouched. Some would complain about this but the pq on my 126" screen is again mind blowing. I feel that the SC05/07 can drive any speaker and do it well, though I have the RTi setup. The AH review said the same thing Bigred mention regarding the 4ohm load, but again take that with a grain of salt as there are plenty of reviews from actual owners posted at AVS driving 4 ohm loads @ reference level.
The new Elites are awesome, I can stream music to it via HMG, ipod, etc. The feature setup is very good. The only thing I would consider an upgrade would be the SC-09. Everything else is meh, ok. I compared the Denon, Onkyos, Sonys (I have moved my 7100ES to the living room out of my dedicated room) to the Pioneer before purchasing, and Pio wins. The Denons are very nice, but I felt it was just a tad too laid back for my taste and with the price point at the time, I got more for my buck with the Pio.
Terra buy the Pio and be done, as for speakers, dont buy everything at one time. Buy a set of fronts, then center, then your surrounds. This hobby gets expensive, and Im sure there are others here that dont splurge on everything at once, and its actually fun to build a system that way.Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!
Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580 -
If I were in the market for a new AVR I would go for the 05/07. The new ICEamps are very good in these AVRS and that's also to include the 09. My SC-07 sounds very detailed and clear. Granted I run my SC-07 as a pre, but the results as the OP stated are mind blowing. Best money spent and the features alone are enough to correct any problematic room setup. I only run 3 sources through mine, BD, HD DVD, Xbox 360, I like that it passes 1080p/24 to my JVC HD1 projector untouched. Some would complain about this but the pq on my 126" screen is again mind blowing. I feel that the SC05/07 can drive any speaker and do it well, though I have the RTi setup. The AH review said the same thing Bigred mention regarding the 4ohm load, but again take that with a grain of salt as there are plenty of reviews from actual owners posted at AVS driving 4 ohm loads @ reference level.
The new Elites are awesome, I can stream music to it via HMG, ipod, etc. The feature setup is very good. The only thing I would consider an upgrade would be the SC-09. Everything else is meh, ok. I compared the Denon, Onkyos, Sonys (I have moved my 7100ES to the living room out of my dedicated room) to the Pioneer before purchasing, and Pio wins. The Denons are very nice, but I felt it was just a tad too laid back for my taste and with the price point at the time, I got more for my buck with the Pio.
Terra buy the Pio and be done, as for speakers, dont buy everything at one time. Buy a set of fronts, then center, then your surrounds. This hobby gets expensive, and Im sure there are others here that dont splurge on everything at once, and its actually fun to build a system that way.
ok and here's my point...If they are so good then why are you powering them with an external amp?
Again i never said that they would not drive a 4ohm load... I just said they did not do it that well. Which is why i assume you added an amp....for the extra heft that if can support and low impedences it can handle...this is WHY we add amps.
I was apart of the SC-05/07 owners thread for quite awhile in the beginning. The VAST majority who did have 4ohm speakers and used the 05/07 and drove them to reference levels had never end owned an amp. So THEIR comments can be taken with a grain of salt lol. I will state this in a way that perhaps makes more sense. The SC-05/07 will drive 4ohm speakers...but your not doing your speakers justice. If you could do it justice Pioneer would rate it as such.
And a comment on the audioholics review...you cant argue with a bench test...the SC-05/07 did not do well with the 4ohm loads. But they also mentioned that bench tests are NOT real world conditions, but instead are putting the amp through extreme conditions. So your not supposed to take that entirely to heart, beyond that they loved the new pio's.
Anyway i just thought i would clarify a bit more.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands
