Someone was reading a USA Today on the train this morning and I saw this:

Jstas

It was a smaller article than what is posted here but I saw the story headline and had to go find out more.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-04-12-toyotainsurance12_ST_N.htm

State Farm Asks Toyota To Repay Acceleration Claims
By Sharon Silke Carty, USA TODAY


DETROIT — Armed with reports of accidents for which they've already paid claims, State Farm insurance has asked Toyota to repay them for any crashes related to unintended acceleration by its vehicles.

Other companies are expected to follow and demands for repayment of claims — called "subrogation" in the insurance business — could end up costing Toyota from $20 million to $30 million, says Mark Bunim, an attorney with Case Closure, a mediation firm. Customers could see a bonus from any repayment: Insurance deductibles they paid could be refunded.

"If we didn't incur any risk, we get our part back and you get your part back," says Dick Luedke, a spokesman for State Farm.

Toyota has recalled 7.7 million vehicles in two recalls related to sudden acceleration, one involving floor mats that can jam gas pedals and one involving pedals that stick. The government last week fined Toyota the maximum $16.4 million for violating a five-day deadline in reporting the sticky pedals. Toyota has not decided whether to appeal.

State Farm sent a letter to Toyota in September 2007 asking it to pay for claims in an accident involving a 2005 Toyota Camry. State Farm wrote, "We are aware of several complaints to your company of sudden acceleration involving the Toyota Camry." The driver had reported the same problem to her mechanic twice before, State Farm wrote.

The letter was copied to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which replied by saying it had looked into similar complaints, starting in August 2006, and closed the investigation on April 3, 2007. State Farm wasn't reimbursed.

If Toyota doesn't end up paying for accidents insurers link to sudden acceleration, the cost could trickle down to consumers, who could end up paying higher insurance rates for Toyota vehicles.

Whatever happens, resolution won't come soon.

"Someone has to go through each and every auto claim, and then try to make a determination if it involved unwarranted acceleration," Bunim says. "It could take months."

Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons says subrogation claims are common between insurers and automakers. Beyond that, Toyota had no comment.

Despite recent troubles, Toyota's vehicles don't cost much to insure because they are generally safe and reliable, says Peter Moraga, spokesman for the Insurance Information Network of California. That could change if the problems drag on, he says.

"That's when we would see an impact on insurance rates," he says. "It really depends on what Toyota does in terms of fixing the problem."

If State Farm is successful, that sets an interesting precedent.

hearingimpared

I don't know. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable point on State Farm's part. I hate to see Toyota getting the stuffing knocked out of it but it was their screw up that did cause the accidents which State Farm had to pay out on.

bobman1235

The problem is proving mechanical failure over driver negligence. Where and how do you draw the line? Car companies shoudl be held accountable for putting out shoddy products, but setting a precedent where any manufacturing or design fault is immediately an excuse for an accident is opening up a pretty big can of worms.

Jstas

I would imagine that the police and accident reports that state that mechanical or electrical failure was the cause would be subjected to the scrutiny.

ohskigod

Jstas wrote: »

I would imagine that the police and accident reports that state that mechanical or electrical failure was the cause would be subjected to the scrutiny.

I have to imagine it will be a rarity for a Police report to officially deem it mechanical or electrical failure, they might put in "Driver states car accelerated beyond control" or something like that, but they usual avoid anything that can be contrued as an "official call" like the plague.

of course, thank god it aint on us to figure this stuff out, what a nightmare.

Jstas

ohskigod wrote: »

I have to imagine it will be a rarity for a Police report to officially deem it mechanical or electrical failure, they might put in "Driver states car accelerated beyond control" or something like that, but they usual avoid anything that can be contrued as an "official call" like the plague.

of course, thank god it aint on us to figure this stuff out, what a nightmare.

Well, insurance investigators come out and fill out the accident reports for the insurance company. They would specify a failure on the report. But there are any number of ways to compromise and manipulate the data. But if State Farm is successful with it, don't be surprised to see others jumping on the cash cow bandwagon.

Toxis

$20 says if Toyota pays, state farm will not give the full amount back to their customers. They'll deduct legal fees or some other fees to keep half of their deductibles. It's how insurance companies work in America...

concealer404

Has anyone been able to duplicate the Toyota issue yet? I'm still waiting on that, but it may have happened and i just didn't know about it or something.

bobman1235

The only "tests" I've seen have been forced reproductions - basically seeing, if the car DID get stuck with wide open throttle, if it was still controllable. I think it was Car and Driver, and they took a bunch of Toyotas, jammed the throttle open and stood on the brake pedal, and every one of them was able to stop.

hearingimpared

bobman1235 wrote: »

The only "tests" I've seen have been forced reproductions - basically seeing, if the car DID get stuck with wide open throttle, if it was still controllable. I think it was Car and Driver, and they took a bunch of Toyotas, jammed the throttle open and stood on the brake pedal, and every one of them was able to stop.

Couldn't you throw it into NEUTRAL then hit the brakes?

concealer404

hearingimpared wrote: »

Couldn't you throw it into NEUTRAL then hit the brakes?

Sure, but that doesn't accurately depict what most of the morons in the world would do. Either way, the car stops. No biggie.

Obviously, personally, i think that Toyota should tell the insurance companies where they can stuff it until someone can duplicate the issue.

bobman1235

hearingimpared wrote: »

Couldn't you throw it into NEUTRAL then hit the brakes?

There have been some reports that the computer won't LET the car be thrown into neutral with wide open throttle (to avoid damage to the engine / tranny). I don't know if this is true, I just remember reading it on Jalopnik a while back.

But what concealer says is right; a lot of people who own cars just don't think of that kind of thing.

ShinAce

bobman1235 wrote: »

There have been some reports that the computer won't LET the car be thrown into neutral with wide open throttle (to avoid damage to the engine / tranny). I don't know if this is true, I just remember reading it on Jalopnik a while back.

But what concealer says is right; a lot of people who own cars just don't think of that kind of thing.

I can only wonder about that. My new 2010 Ford Focus will not rev past 3500 in neutral. Of course, that's me going into neutral from idle - 2k rpm.

exalted512

in my old GMC truck...if i put it in neutral while the cruise was on interesting things would happen...haha.
-Cody