TSI-500 Center- Research and thoughts

fattmann

Some of you may remember me talking about using a TSI-500 for a center channel a little while back. Still doing some research while I stack some money up, just looking for some thoughts and opinions on some findings.

Was at my local Best Buy (please don't let the Best Buy thread bleed into here...) playing with the studio room. While the 500s are not on display, I was toying around with the CS-10, TSI-300/400s. Tested while running through the Denon 890 on Direct while playing Star Trek through optical, LCR set to large, sub off.

Main thing I noticed was how good the CS10 sounded as compared to the 400 when ran as a center... As expected the 400 was Very directional, and didn't really seem to have a smooth sound stage across the front (ran the 300s as L/R, I know not the same but working with what I had) The CS10 honestly seemed to have a better bass response than the 400...

I switched back and forth and was really impressed with the CS10- but why did it seem to have more bass? Only thing I could come up with is just the load put on the amp when switching to the 400 was enough to change the sound.

I also layed the 400 on it's side just to see how it would sound, I know some of you had recomended against that. Didn't notice That much of a difference, but definately changed the soundstaging quite a bit. But I still couldn't get over the bass thing...

Thoughts? Any are appreciated, positive or negative, as long as they are tasteful..

I'll probably play with it again tomorrow, so any ideas on testing my ideas would be sweet. At this point I may only be worth going with the 500 as a 'cool' factor, my bet is on the power draw. But I play on amping my L/R down the road...

wutadumsn23

I'm not surprised that the CS10 did much better as a center than the 400 did, it is after all designed for that very function, lol. I still am not a supporter of using a "floorstander" as a center, unless in a perfect world you could some how find a way to keep it upright in the middle of your HT. Even still I think that a CS10/CS20 would still outperform it. IMHO, a CS20 would be your best bet for a center, unless you can't fit it of course. Good luck.

-Jeff

polkfan38

The CS20 is the perfect match for the TSi 500s. CS10 for the TSi100s through the 400s.

Topper

polkfan38 wrote: »

The CS20 is the perfect match for the TSi 500s. CS10 for the TSi100s through the 400s.

x2

(though given a choice, i'd rather go with the bigger center no matter which other speakers i was using (even down to tiny bookshelfs))

madnod

in a perfect world teh front sound stage should be matched, however for most of the people this is not doable, there is some studies on the wave pattern distribution of central channel speakers that proves the better performance of a tower center, however everybody do some compromise when it come to real live speakers layout.

polkfan38

Where was the CS10 positioned as compared to the TSi400? Was the CS on a shelf or in some kind of "cubby"? It was probably getting some enhancement from its surroundings.

comfortablycurt

polkfan38 wrote: »

The CS20 is the perfect match for the TSi 500s. CS10 for the TSi100s through the 400s.

The CS20 would be the best choice with any of those speakers, though the CS10 will still work well with the smaller ones. A larger center is always a good choice.


As far as I know, the only real reason that a traditional center channel is even arranged horizontally, is so that people can place them more easily. As others have mentioned, most people can't accommodate a tower in their center position.

The different dispersion characteristics most likely wouldn't be too big of an issue, since the center channel is blending with the front L/R anyway, and creating an entire soundstage between the three speakers. Wider dispersion in a center channel generally isn't as crucial as having wide dispersion characteristics in the front L/R or surround channels. You want a center channel to be more focused, to anchor the sound between the front L/R. In reality though, the side to side dispersion of a CS20 versus a single TSi500 should be pretty similar.

In an ideal situation, every speaker in a HT setup would be identical. In most situations though, this is neither necessary or practical. The benefits of running towers as surround channels is minimal, because of the relatively undemanding load that's usually placed on those channels. The same can be said of the center channel.

It's true that the center channel carries roughly 50% of a movies soundtrack on average...but a lot of what comes through the center channel is simply dialogue. The benefits of running towers as the front L/R come mainly due to the fact that the majority of a movies musical score comes from the front L/R, as well as most of the side to side sweeping effects.



So, would a TSi500 be a better center channel? Yes...but...A CS20 would also be excellent...and you'd likely be more than happy with it.

mystik610

You definitely don't want to sit a tower on its side to use it as a center channel....nor do you want to sit a center channel upright. In a small, confined room, with a limited listening area you might not notice anything, but in a larger room you'll notice a significantly diminished sweet spot.

I've tried doing both in my house just for kicks, and given that I have a very wide, open living-room, the effects were horrible....the center channel started sounding very directional. The center channel does need a wide dispersion of audio because in most listening environments, not everyone is sitting directly in front of the screen, and the center channel audio needs to be affixed to the middle of the listening area. A good center channel will image in such a way that even if you're sitting off-axis, the audio dialogue will still sound like its coming from the middle of the room.

A center channel is one of those things that when it works well, you overlook and under-appreciate. But the center channel is what delivers the most important aspects of the movie.....and it isn't just the dialogue either. The center channel conveys the audio tied directly to what you're looking at on the screen. It literally links what you're seeing directly to what you're hearing.

Everything else coming from the L/R, surrounds, and your sub are added effects that enhance the center channel audio. If the center channel doesn't image properly, if it starts to sound very directional, and/or is drowned out by the rest of your system, not only does the sound-stage fall apart, but the link between what you're hearing and what you're seeing falls apart. It ruins the believability of the experience, and becomes very distracting. It doesn't take a well trained ear to notice either...most people will notice a discrepancy between what they're hearing and seeing, particularly if the mains are drowning out the center and they can't hear the dialogue. Most people will also notice when the dialogue sounds like its coming from underneath, or to the side of the screen.

So definitely don't skimp out on the center!

fattmann

polkfan38 wrote: »

Where was the CS10 positioned as compared to the TSi400? Was the CS on a shelf or in some kind of "cubby"? It was probably getting some enhancement from its surroundings.

You're exactly right, I had thought of that at the time, but for some reason spaced it off when making the post. Very good point- it was on a hardwood shelf, next to a hardwood wall.

Rick88 wrote: »

I recently had to "downgrade" my system for a move to a small apartment. I previously had Klipsch RF-62 towers for my front and surrounds and a horizontal RC-62 center. I now have six TSi100's all the way around. I have to say that it really IS the best option to have all speakers identical if at all possible.

Nice to hear from someone whose actually done it, Thanks!

Well, I'm currently in the process of measuring for/building my screen. So I guess that will dictate alot of it, based on the height from the floor.

Anyone have any links to tech articles discussing the effects of laying a tower on its side? I Fully understand what you guys are getting saying not to lay it down, but in my head I don't see why it would matter.. A driver is, for the most part, emitting sound radially. So the only thing I could see making a difference is the tweeter placement in relation to the L/R/listening position. I'm more of a "see it on paper" guy to get my head wrapped around things.

Thanks again for all the input.