HPF and LPF frequencies - space between 60 and 80 hz?

TakeTheTime

Hello again. I only have the opportunity to set HPF to 80, 120 or 160 hz
on my SR's - or "off" - but I need to 'control' my speakers you know...

So, the choice is of course 80 hz and this works fine although I would
like to do it lower (like 63 hz). But then I wonder, how do you guys think
it works with the subwoofer playing up to 60 hz, with the front at 80 hz HPF?
I'm not sure about the slope, but I think the 9880's slope is 12db's/octave (?)

arun1963

In your situation, you would get better results by using cascading slopes. I.E. setting the xovers at both the hu and the amps. I have my sub and mids crossed at 50hz with the sub on a 30db and mids on a 24 db slope. Everything set from the hu and bypassed at the amp.

Set the xover at your hu at 80 (cause u cant go lower) and then at your amps select LP/HP as applicable and set the xover dial to around 80hz. Typically the amps also filter at 12db/oct (some amps have an option of 12/24db, if you have this select 24db for the sub channel and 12db for the mids). So you would get 12ds from the hu and another 12db from the amp. Hence a cross over of 80hz on a 24db slope.......this will add clarity to your mid bass and mid range. With a steeper slope on your sub its no longer playing up till the 200-250hz range.

Hope that answers your question.

MacLeod

I'm not a huge fan of using dual crossover, there's just too many things that have to match up and when youre using crossover from 2 different components, there's less chance of it working out right.

You dont have to set your mids crossover point to the same as your subs. In fact people stagger x-over points on a lot od drivers if theyre trying to smooth out a response hump for instance. Take the SR6500's. The mids are cut off at around 2K while the tweets are at 5-6K. They sound pretty good.

arun1963

True, cascading xovers aren't the best and I would not normally recommend it. But in op's case, the hu's default slope on sub and mids is 12db. Slopes are fixed. Also he can't cross lower than 80hz from his hu. He prob can't even set his sub / mids separately to stagger them.......

TakeTheTime

Thanks for feedback here guys! But now I got a great deal on an Alpine 9855, so I'm gonna buy that one.



^ Like this one. What do you guys think? Much more opportunities, eh?

arun1963

Yeah, the opportunity to run active, time alignment for six drivers and a 5 band parametric eq. Congrats.

TakeTheTime

Thank you sir! Can't wait, I already think the SR's and the JL sounds unbelievable great. Can't imagine how it's gonna be with TA, active running, eq's...

MacLeod

That is an awesome head unit. I used my 9855 during 2006 and competed with it all season.

TakeTheTime

Check out my new thread ^

TakeTheTime

I've been playin' with the crossover functions of the new HU lately, to find out what I like the most.
Right now I'm trying LPF of the sub at 40 hz with 18db/octave, and HPF at 50 hz and 12db/octave. I like it!

arun1963

The slopes look shallow. Try 50hz for the sub at 30db/oct and the mid at 50hz on 24db/oct. See how that sounds. By running a shallow slope on your sub you would 'hear' upto like 100hz from your sub that would locate the sub at the back and muddy your mid bass.

TakeTheTime

arun1963 wrote: »

The slopes look shallow. Try 50hz for the sub at 30db/oct and the mid at 50hz on 24db/oct. See how that sounds. By running a shallow slope on your sub you would 'hear' upto like 100hz from your sub that would locate the sub at the back and muddy your mid bass.

Okey, I'll try 24db/oct. (maximum on the 9855r) at 40hz, and use midbass at 50hz with 12db/oct. (to "drag" the bass up front). What do you think?

arun1963

The sr 5250 mids are good till 50hz. Below that they lose accuracy. Hence, you'd need a steep cut off. To pull the sub bass up front, you will need to use TA and get your sub in phase with your mids. This, after you have got the two mids aligned.

However, if you hear anything above say 60hz from your sub, your sub will get located at the rear, even with Ta. The mids have to start 'drowning out' the sub around 50hz.

That said, yes do try out different settings and try to pick out the differences you hear. Find out what your ears like hearing.

TakeTheTime

Okey I'll continue testing new things, but I must say I like what I hear.
But I'm no expert! So you think my SR's shouldn't play ANYTHING below 50??

arun1963

The sr 6.75" start thinning out under 40hz. Due to its smaller size, the 5.25 would start rolling off a bit earlier. Mac's mentioned in several threads that they start getting sloppy under 50hz.

TakeTheTime

Yes, I've seen it. But still I want a shallow slope in order to drag the bass upfront.
I also want to cross the sub at 40hz. Hmm, interesting. Hey Mac, what do you think is best??

MacLeod

50 Hz @ 12 db/oct is a tad shallow. Try 40 at 24 db/oct and see how that sounds.

Below that is 31 and that aint gonna happen even with the 6.5's. Thats getting into the frequencies that you dont hear but feel and a midrange driver just aint capable of reproducing that with any authority so trying to make it hit that frequency is only gonna screw up everything above it.

The downside is that while the 5.25's could get into the 50-40 HZ range, its struggling to do so and that takes away from the midrange reproduction.

What I did in 2007 was run the 5250's at 50 Hz @ 24 db/oct and the sub up to 50 as well but at a 30 db/oct slope and I cut every frequency on the sub's EQ down to -9.

With 5.25's you get better midrange than with 6.5's but you lose the ability to go down low so without some pretty beefy processing, youre gonna have to settle for a little bit of sub pulling to the rear. But itll still sound great and unless youre being judged in a competition, it wont be a problem.

TakeTheTime

MacLeod wrote: »

50 Hz @ 12 db/oct is a tad shallow. Try 40 at 24 db/oct and see how that sounds.

Below that is 31 and that aint gonna happen even with the 6.5's. Thats getting into the frequencies that you dont hear but feel and a midrange driver just aint capable of reproducing that with any authority so trying to make it hit that frequency is only gonna screw up everything above it.

The downside is that while the 5.25's could get into the 50-40 HZ range, its struggling to do so and that takes away from the midrange reproduction.

What I did in 2007 was run the 5250's at 50 Hz @ 24 db/oct and the sub up to 50 as well but at a 30 db/oct slope and I cut every frequency on the sub's EQ down to -9.

With 5.25's you get better midrange than with 6.5's but you lose the ability to go down low so without some pretty beefy processing, youre gonna have to settle for a little bit of sub pulling to the rear. But itll still sound great and unless youre being judged in a competition, it wont be a problem.

Thanks for great reply MacLeod! Okey, I'll try cross the 5250's at 40hz with 24db/octave!
I like the sound much better with the subwoofer up 'till 40hz, and then the SR's from 50 hz...

I'm gonna try a "beginner's" competition (EMMA) this weekend, in fact.
So I'm trying to find the best way to cross and set EQ's. Any tips on
setting the Parametic EQ? I've tried to gain with 1db around 16k,
to get a little more detail from the tweeters. Anything else?

By the way, maybe my future plans is to get a pair of the SR6500's
and run them from 40 to 80 hz, and use the 5250's from 80hz...?
BUT the SR5250's has a great punchy midbass kick, I think...!

TakeTheTime

Another thing, why not cut the sub 'till 40hz (with 24 or 18 db/octave?) and the SR's at 50 hz (with 18 db/octave)?

MacLeod

No reason not to. Try everything dude. There is no "magic" setting. Different things will work with different gear and in different cars. Let your ears be the final judge.

As for setting the PEQ, thats just takes a lot of trial and error by ear. Id invest in a good CD with filtered pink noise tracks in 1/3 octave intervals and then go get ya a Radio Shack SPL meter. Play the tracks and make a graph on paper of the readings then use the PEQ to flatten out the curve some. Youre not going for perfectly flat but you do want to keep each frequency within 2 db of the next one ideally. And if youre going to do competitions, you HAVE to have a multi channel EQ. Doesnt necessarily have to be 31 bands each but each channel DOES need its own EQ.

TakeTheTime

Okey, I just thought the subwoofer was waaay to easy to locate at 50 hz (24db/octave).

TakeTheTime

But I've got to tell ya, no matter what I do or try with these, the SR's always sounds GREAT. I just love 'em!

MacLeod

TakeTheTime wrote: »

Okey, I just thought the subwoofer was waaay to easy to locate at 50 hz (24db/octave).

It is because 63 and up ate bleeding thru. That's why you'd use the 30 db slope and cut everything above 50 with the EQ.

JoshParsons84

WOW....ya know what? I'm reading every single post and still everything I hear about car audio I cannot seem to grasp. It must be damn rocket science for me. Like the saying goes: If you can't swim stay out the pool right?

TakeTheTime

MacLeod wrote: »

It is because 63 and up ate bleeding thru. That's why you'd use the 30 db slope and cut everything above 50 with the EQ.

Too bad 24db's/octave is the steepest I can go.

JoshParsons84 wrote: »

WOW....ya know what? I'm reading every single post and still everything I hear about car audio I cannot seem to grasp. It must be damn rocket science for me. Like the saying goes: If you can't swim stay out the pool right?

True. I too think this is interesting.

arun1963

JoshParsons84 wrote: »

Like the saying goes: If you can't swim stay out the pool right?

Or you can splash around in the shallow end till you learn how to swim. At least you're in the water.

It's not rocket science. But you need to follow a process, so that you don't just wander around. No one knows that more than me.

JoshParsons84

arun1963 wrote: »

Or you can splash around in the shallow end till you learn how to swim. At least you're in the water.

It's not rocket science. But you need to follow a process, so that you don't just wander around. No one knows that more than me.

Maybe I need to be pointed in the right direction of a real good tutorial because I'm reading everything I can and still not understanding at least a concept of what every little settings IS first of all and what boosting this will to do that...what frequencies are, etc, etc.

MacLeod

Actually it is rocket science. There is a ton of physics that go along with car audio. But since I cant understand any of it, I dont bother with it. I just tinker with stuff till it sounds good.

arun1963

True. Its rocket science if you're going to measure and calculate your way to good sound. Its not, if you just train your ears to listen and then just tweak your way to good sound.

JoshParsons84

MacLeod wrote: »

Actually it is rocket science. There is a ton of physics that go along with car audio. But since I cant understand any of it, I dont bother with it. I just tinker with stuff till it sounds good.

Everybody's a critic

arun1963

JoshParsons84 wrote: »

Everybody's a critic

Ok, start a new thread, list out what you have installed and what your goals are. Lets see if we can get you on the road to get there.