Dead Marine's father ordered to pay protesters' legal costs
NotaSuv
Posts: 3,849
Not a short read...but a real slap in the face to the entire family..hell a slap in the face to all vets and those who have lost loved ones in combat............
The father of a Marine whose funeral was picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church says an order to pay the protesters' legal costs in a civil claim is nothing less than a "slap in the face."
"By the court making this decision, they're not only telling me that they're taking their side, but I have to pay them money to do this to more soldiers and their families," said Albert Snyder, whose son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, was killed in action in Iraq in 2006.
Members of the fundamentalist church based in Topeka, Kansas, appeared outside Snyder's funeral in 2006 in Westminster, Maryland, carrying signs reading "You're going to hell," "God hates you" and "Thank God for dead soldiers."
Among the teachings of the church, which was founded in 1955 by pastor Fred Phelps, is the belief that God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events such as soldiers' deaths.
Margie Phelps, the daughter of Fred Phelps and the attorney representing the church in its appeals, also said the money that the church receives from Snyder will be used to finance demonstrations. But she also said that the order was a consequence of his decision to sue the church over the demonstration.
"Mr. Snyder and his attorneys have engaged the legal system; there are some rules to that legal engagement," said Phelps, a member of Westboro who says she has participated in more than 150 protests of military funerals.
"They wanted to shut down the picketing so now they're going to finance it," she said.
The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday ordered that Snyder pay more than $16,000 in costs requested by Westboro for copies of motions, briefs and appendices, according to court documents.
In a motion filed in October, Snyder's lawyer, who is representing him for free, asked the court to dismiss the bill of costs, or, alternatively, reduce the 50-cent fee per page or charge Snyder only for copies that were necessary to make their arguments on appeal.
"We objected based upon ability to pay and the fairness of the situation," Sean Summers said.
The mostly pro-forma ruling is the latest chapter in an ongoing legal saga that pits privacy rights of grieving families against the free speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message.
Snyder's family sued the church and went to trial in 2007 alleging privacy invasion, intentional infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy. A jury awarded the family $2.9 million in compensatory damages plus $8 million in punitive damages, which were reduced to $5 million.
Westboro in 2008 appealed the case to the 4th District, which reversed the judgments a year later, siding with the church's claims that its First Amendment rights had been violated.
"The protest was confined to a public area under supervision and regulation of local law enforcement and did not disrupt the church service," the circuit court opinion said. "Although reasonable people may disagree about the appropriateness of the Phelps' protest, this conduct simply does not satisfy the heavy burden required for the tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress under Maryland law."
The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case to address issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased.
The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.
Both Phelps and Snyder's attorney said they were surprised that the 4th District chose to weigh in on the issue of legal costs when they could have waited until after the Supreme Court hearing.
Phelps believes the ruling bodes well for her side.
"It is a good harbinger of the fact that the Supreme Court will remind this nation that you don't have mob rule. The fact that so many people hate these words does not mean you can silence or penalize them. That's supposed to be the great liberty that we congratulate ourselves on protecting in this nation. We strut all around the world forcing people to give all the liberties we supposedly have," she said.
Phelps anticipated that a Supreme Court ruling in the church's favor would be unpopular, but she said Westboro's members viewed the potential outcome in Biblical terms.
"When the Supreme Court unanimously upholds the 4th Circuit, it's going to put this country in a rage, and we will be expelled," she said. "But whenever it was time for an epic event in the Bible, the thing that happened right before is the prophets were removed from the land, and that's what's going to happen to us. ... We're going to sprint to the end of this race."
Snyder claims he is unable to pay any legal costs in the case and is attempting to raise funds on his son's site, http://www.matthewsnyder.org/. He is equally optimistic that he will prevail before the Supreme Court.
"The American people keep my spirits lifted a lot and give me hope. I think most of the country is on my side on this issue," he said. "Too many people have died to protect our rights and freedoms to have them degraded and spit upon like this church does."
The father of a Marine whose funeral was picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church says an order to pay the protesters' legal costs in a civil claim is nothing less than a "slap in the face."
"By the court making this decision, they're not only telling me that they're taking their side, but I have to pay them money to do this to more soldiers and their families," said Albert Snyder, whose son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, was killed in action in Iraq in 2006.
Members of the fundamentalist church based in Topeka, Kansas, appeared outside Snyder's funeral in 2006 in Westminster, Maryland, carrying signs reading "You're going to hell," "God hates you" and "Thank God for dead soldiers."
Among the teachings of the church, which was founded in 1955 by pastor Fred Phelps, is the belief that God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events such as soldiers' deaths.
Margie Phelps, the daughter of Fred Phelps and the attorney representing the church in its appeals, also said the money that the church receives from Snyder will be used to finance demonstrations. But she also said that the order was a consequence of his decision to sue the church over the demonstration.
"Mr. Snyder and his attorneys have engaged the legal system; there are some rules to that legal engagement," said Phelps, a member of Westboro who says she has participated in more than 150 protests of military funerals.
"They wanted to shut down the picketing so now they're going to finance it," she said.
The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday ordered that Snyder pay more than $16,000 in costs requested by Westboro for copies of motions, briefs and appendices, according to court documents.
In a motion filed in October, Snyder's lawyer, who is representing him for free, asked the court to dismiss the bill of costs, or, alternatively, reduce the 50-cent fee per page or charge Snyder only for copies that were necessary to make their arguments on appeal.
"We objected based upon ability to pay and the fairness of the situation," Sean Summers said.
The mostly pro-forma ruling is the latest chapter in an ongoing legal saga that pits privacy rights of grieving families against the free speech rights of demonstrators, however disturbing and provocative their message.
Snyder's family sued the church and went to trial in 2007 alleging privacy invasion, intentional infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy. A jury awarded the family $2.9 million in compensatory damages plus $8 million in punitive damages, which were reduced to $5 million.
Westboro in 2008 appealed the case to the 4th District, which reversed the judgments a year later, siding with the church's claims that its First Amendment rights had been violated.
"The protest was confined to a public area under supervision and regulation of local law enforcement and did not disrupt the church service," the circuit court opinion said. "Although reasonable people may disagree about the appropriateness of the Phelps' protest, this conduct simply does not satisfy the heavy burden required for the tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress under Maryland law."
The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case to address issues of laws designed to protect the "sanctity and dignity of memorial and funeral services" as well as the privacy of family and friends of the deceased.
The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.
Both Phelps and Snyder's attorney said they were surprised that the 4th District chose to weigh in on the issue of legal costs when they could have waited until after the Supreme Court hearing.
Phelps believes the ruling bodes well for her side.
"It is a good harbinger of the fact that the Supreme Court will remind this nation that you don't have mob rule. The fact that so many people hate these words does not mean you can silence or penalize them. That's supposed to be the great liberty that we congratulate ourselves on protecting in this nation. We strut all around the world forcing people to give all the liberties we supposedly have," she said.
Phelps anticipated that a Supreme Court ruling in the church's favor would be unpopular, but she said Westboro's members viewed the potential outcome in Biblical terms.
"When the Supreme Court unanimously upholds the 4th Circuit, it's going to put this country in a rage, and we will be expelled," she said. "But whenever it was time for an epic event in the Bible, the thing that happened right before is the prophets were removed from the land, and that's what's going to happen to us. ... We're going to sprint to the end of this race."
Snyder claims he is unable to pay any legal costs in the case and is attempting to raise funds on his son's site, http://www.matthewsnyder.org/. He is equally optimistic that he will prevail before the Supreme Court.
"The American people keep my spirits lifted a lot and give me hope. I think most of the country is on my side on this issue," he said. "Too many people have died to protect our rights and freedoms to have them degraded and spit upon like this church does."
Post edited by NotaSuv on
Comments
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As a Christian myself...I hope there is a special HELL for Phelps and all of his followers."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
Yeah, that's pretty messed up. What is the judge thinking? This is also a slap to other religious groups (the sane ones).
I am a member of a Baptist church and we would never do anything even remotely close to this. Please keep in mind that Baptist churches do not have a central governing body. They are all independent and self governed. Any church could really call themselves a "Baptist" church. Westboro Baptist Church's practices are shameful and disrespectful. -
maximillian wrote: »Yeah, that's pretty messed up. What is the judge thinking? This is also a slap to other religious groups (the sane ones).
I am a member of a Baptist church and we would never do anything even remotely close to this. Please keep in mind that Baptist churches do not have a central governing body. They are all independent and self governed. Any church could really call themselves a "Baptist" church. Westboro Baptist Church's practices are shameful and disrespectful.
I agree with you.. this also gives many other religious groups the same slap...hard to believe such a ruling was made....... -
As a Kansan, I hope Phelps finds a hell; preferably on earth for us all to witness and laugh at. Make him pay the 7.9 million originally instructed and ruin his church financially forever... **** don't deserve oxygen.Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.
Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.
Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener. -
Thank God for men like this man and his son! And God bless Bill O'Reilly for stepping up to help out. Mr. O'Reilly(FOX NEWS) has stated he will personally pay those legal costs. I hope the family of the fallen Marine find Justice for this outrage as the case moves along.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
As someone who doesn't believe in Hell, I hope everyone involved in that "church" finds a special place on Earth to burn very slowly. Acid or fire; either is fine, though I'd prefer some combination of both. I swear I could watch those effers burn and die for hours and enjoy every second.If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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This young man went to the same elementary school as my kids (though several years earlier). They have planted a tree in a garden in his honor. The despicable protests also occurred outside my church. Fortunately, these people were there also: http://www.patriotguard.org/
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i read this earlier and thought about posting it in here.. but decided not to.. thinking it would cause WWIII in here... glad that NotaSuv did though.
that is effed up to the max :mad: :mad: :mad:PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
Thankfully someone like Bill O'Reilly has come to the aid of this family. Hopefully others will too.
What the hell is going on in this country????
Wake up America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
As a Friend of a Marine killed in action in Iraq in 2006 and the father of a Marine who just returned home safely after 2 tours in Iraq, I find this story very disturbing, that some Americans just don't "get it".... My thoughts and prayers go out to the Snyder family.
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These are the biggest pieces of human debris I think exist on this planet. Id even rate these scumbags BELOW terrorists! I would love nothing better than for a suicide bomber to walk right into the middle of these **** stains during one of their "protests". 2 birds with 1 stone. 1 less suicide bomber in the world and no more of these ****.
Gawdamighty these guys INFURIATE me!polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st
polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D -
this is just more of the same from this POS and his church.
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I'm so pissed that I can't tell you what would happen if one of my three family members in the military were were in that position and these nuts showed up. It wouldn't be pretty.
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Phelps and his crew (crew as in mobsters) are what gives good Christians an their congregations a bad name. Their twisted pervertion of the Bible is what causes all kinds of strife in the world.
I hope the vets family wins this one with flying colors and I believe there is an especially awful place in hell for people who pervert and use the Bible for their own private wars and gain. The same with the Koran or any Holy book.
It's truly sickening! -
Thankfully someone like Bill O'Reilly has come to the aid of this family. Hopefully others will too.
What the hell is going on in this country????
Wake up America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey... I said that.;)The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Somebody needs to convince one of these dumbass militia groups that phelps and his band of idiots are actually undercover feds...
Let the paramilitary guys blow them away then bury them for the act.
Could be another win/win if handled properly."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
Folks, the Phelps clan is merely the result of years of intensive inbredding. Hopefully when this goes in front of the SCUS they find that 1st amendment rights do not trump privacy rights (protesting at a private funeral).
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The problem is that they were protesting on public land. There is a motorcycle group called the Patriot Guard Riders that attend funerals like this and drowns out the protesters with their cycles....I love it~
http://www.patriotguard.org/TNRabbit
NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
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Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
Carver AL-III Speakers
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The problem is that they were protesting on public land. There is a motorcycle group called the Patriot Guard Riders that attend funerals like this and drowns out the protesters with their cycles....I love it~
http://www.patriotguard.org/
I've rode with the Patriot Guard (odd man out with a sportbike;)) at a funeral in Phoenix.
Like I said, it will be interesting on how this is ruled and what level of privacy is expected being that a funeral is a private ceremony. -
Pretty impressive,I thought all was lost in this country,for sure the internet,maybe not.I agree with the majority that this is some sick sh.....
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Wow... It takes a lot for me to not think of Bill O'Reilly as an ****$hole, but these people have made me have a little bit of respect for him... Jerks...
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Wow... It takes a lot for me to not think of Bill O'Reilly as an ****$hole, but these people have made me have a little bit of respect for him... Jerks...
Give the guy a week, and you will respect him even more.:eek::DThe Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
everything serves a purpose, I sure dont know how though, dont think I'm supposed to though.
RT1
