Disappointed with current setup

ryanjoachim

I must be doing something wrong here...cause I'm not really feeling "immersed" into the movies when it comes to surround parts.

I'll post pics later tonight when I get home, but i'll try to paint a little picture of my current setup.

TV is on a stand with a mount attached. Center is sitting on the glass just below the tv (about 1-2" of clearance).

Fronts are each around 10-12" away from the tv on each side, and around 2' from the wall behind them. Audio tower is only a couple inches away from the left front.

My surrounds are apprx 6-6.5' high on the wall, and around 7-8' apart. When sitting, the surrounds are 2-3' above the listener's head. Also, they're set to bi-pole and I flipped them around so that the tweeter (is that the right name for the small speaker?) is facing away from the couch.

The sub is right next to the couch and around 6" away from the wall.

Does it sound like I just have a completely **** layout/positioning for my speakers?
Are they woefully underpowered by my 605?

Should I sell off the RTi10's and go for something more "surround" oriented?

When I get home i'll throw BoB into the blu-ray player and test out the scene where they're finally dropping into the war, and try to give specifics as to what I expect to hear and what i think i'm missing. Maybe it's just me and my declining hearing.

cvpartridge

Have you calibrated your receiver using the microphone? How far away from you are your surround speakers? How big is your room?
I felt kind of the same way about my surround speakers until I turned up the gain on them. They are much better now. I have had my system in a small room and a room that is quite large. And I can say the room size has really effected the way they envelope you. If you have a large room, you need lots of power!

Dawgfish

Heres a couple things I would try. The front mains sound like they are too far apart. I would try to bring them in closer to the tv by a few feet or just experiment in general with the front main spacing. I would also try swithing position of the FXi4s so the tweeters are pointing towards the couch and more "in your face."

I know the DSW PRO 600 is a great sub, I own two of them. Try walking and even crawling around in your home theater rome until you find the spot where you are getting the most bass. Try putiing your sub in that spot if all possible.

Also did you run the 605s autocal setup? I'm not sure if the 605 has Auddyssey or not, but whatever auto setup it has, run it.

Another factor is the listening volume you like to listen to your movies and music. I once had an Onkyo 806 powering a set of RTi10 front mains. Plenty of people said the 806 had enough juice to power those RTi10s, but at the volumes I liked, the reciever alone just wasn't cutting the mustard. I added an external amp and it made all the difference in the world. I'm not knocking the 605, but it doesn't have preouts, so you'll have to upgrade to a reciever with preouts if you want to add to an external amp. If you would like to stay with Onkyo the 700s series recievers are the lowest model with preouts.

I'm getting ahead of myself here, try changing your speaker positioning and autosetup first, and if your system still doesn't do it for you then, consider upgrading your AVR and possibly adding an external amp. You have some really nice speakers there!

ryanjoachim

I originally calibrated it with the microphone over a year ago, but i've tweaked it so much i'm sure it's way off.

That's one thing I forgot to mention, the room i'm in is huge. It's 14x20 and wide open until you hit the kitchen.

Thanks for the tips Dawgfish, but the fronts are 8-10(inches) apart, not feet. And I have a lowly 605 which does NOT have pre outs, not an 805(I wish).

Still kicking myself in the **** for skimping on the receiver way back when.

Dawgfish

ryanjoachim wrote: »

I originally calibrated it with the microphone over a year ago, but i've tweaked it so much i'm sure it's way off.

That's one thing I forgot to mention, the room i'm in is huge. It's 14x20 and wide open until you hit the kitchen.

Thanks for the tips Dawgfish, but the fronts are 8-10(inches) apart, not feet. And I have a lowly 605 which does NOT have pre outs, not an 805(I wish).

Still kicking myself in the **** for skimping on the receiver way back when.

Sorry. I wasn't knocking the 605 by any means. Its a great AVR in its category. Thanks for clarifying the front main position. Maybe try moving them out a litte further then? It might be worth a shot. It sounds like what will probably make a big difference is re-running the calibration if things have changed. One way you can make sure you are getting the most out of the 605 with the RTI10s for movies is set the speaker settings to small for all of the speakers and set the crossover at about 80HZ or so. This will take a lot of burden away from the 605 of trying to push the bass frequencies of the RTi10s and send it to the sub, which the 600 is more than capable of handling. Hope this helps.

Steve

POLKHT

Not sure if this would help your situation, but have you tried a bigger center?

ryanjoachim

Dawgfish wrote: »

Sorry. I wasn't knocking the 605 by any means. Its a great AVR in its category. Thanks for clarifying the front main position. Maybe try moving them out a litte further then? It might be worth a shot. It sounds like what will probably make a big difference is re-running the calibration if things have changed. One way you can make sure you are getting the most out of the 605 with the RTI10s for movies is set the speaker settings to small for all of the speakers and set the crossover at about 80HZ or so. This will take a lot of burden away from the 605 of trying to push the bass frequencies of the RTi10s and send it to the sub, which the 600 is more than capable of handling. Hope this helps.

Steve

That's a great idea Steve (about turning the speakers to "small)! I live in a duplex, so extra bass isn't really endearing me with the neighbors.

ryanjoachim

POLKHT wrote: »

Not sure if this would help your situation, but have you tried a bigger center?

No, I haven't been able to really afford one lately, but it is something i've thought about. Space is really a big concern right now, since I have a LED lcd which is too small to mount the center on top of like I used to have on my DLP.

Erik Tracy

ryanjoachim wrote: »

I originally calibrated it with the microphone over a year ago, but i've tweaked it so much i'm sure it's way off.

That's one thing I forgot to mention, the room i'm in is huge. It's 14x20 and wide open until you hit the kitchen.

Thanks for the tips Dawgfish, but the fronts are 8-10(inches) apart, not feet. And I have a lowly 605 which does NOT have pre outs, not an 805(I wish).

Still kicking myself in the **** for skimping on the receiver way back when.

So, exactly, how far apart are your front speakers from each other, and how far back do you sit in your listening spot?

ryanjoachim

Erik Tracy wrote: »

So, exactly, how far apart are your front speakers from each other, and how far back do you sit in your listening spot?

Thanks for pointing out another 2 important facts I left out.

From each other, the fronts are probably 6ft-6.5ft apart.

I sit 12-14ft away from the tv. I messed up on my room measurements earlier though:
From my couch to the wall behind the tv is 17ft, and from the wall next to my surround to the other end of the room is 23'. It's width x length right?

So 17x23.

Todd Lee

Erik Tracy wrote: »

So, exactly, how far apart are your front speakers from each other, and how far back do you sit in your listening spot?

That's the million dollar question right there. If you're sitting 10 feet away from the tv, you want your front L and R speakers to be about 10 feet apart from each other.

I recommend getting an avia disc, and a radio shack spl meter. Using a meter will really help you fine tune your setup.
http://www.svsound.com/products-parts-avia.cfm

Todd Lee

Looks like we posted at about the same time. You're sitting pretty far away. I'd try spreading out your front sound stage a bit, move those 10's farther apart. How big is your screen?

ryanjoachim

Todd Lee wrote: »

Looks like we posted at about the same time. You're sitting pretty far away. I'd try spreading out your front sound stage a bit, move those 10's farther apart. How big is your screen?

It's a 55in LED lcd.

ryanjoachim

Here are the pics:

ryanjoachim

I guess i'm blind all of a sudden, cause I can't seem to find the option on my Onkyo to set my speakers to "small". Is that only shown when doing the mic setup?

Menasor

You need to rerun Audyssey. Bad calibration can really destroy your movie watching experience and take away the immersion. Second, I would spread the RTi10's farther apart if possible. Tilt your CSi3 up slightly so you get more direct sound from your center. Since the center is the most important part of the HT experience, you want to make sure that's set up correctly. Also, move the CSi3 to the very front edge of your tv stand. You don't want early sound deflection to kill your sound stage. With the RTi10's, I would definitely have gone with the CSi5. The CSi3 is too small to keep up with those towers and probably sounds thin in comparison.

However, try tweaking those things like I suggested and come back with your results.

Menasor

ryanjoachim wrote: »

I guess i'm blind all of a sudden, cause I can't seem to find the option on my Onkyo to set my speakers to "small". Is that only shown when doing the mic setup?

I don't think there's a "small" setting on the Onkyos. On my SR705, speakers are simply Full Range, or you set a crossover for them. Set everything to 80hz and you'll be fine.

treitz3

Man, just going off the pic's and nothing else? If I were you, I'd move the RTi10's out about 3/4 of a foot each and toe them in to where each tweeter is pointed about three inches away from each ear [don't cross the "beams"]. Then, I would mount the rear speakers a little closer to ear level.

Just that right there should work wonders.

Todd Lee

If I remember right, the 702 has the small or large setting. (family member has that receiver)

menasor has given you great tips, let us know how that goes.

treitz3

Also, I notice that all cords seem to be running off one outlet. How many things do you have hooked up to that outlet?

danger boy

i would suggest you run the auto calibration if you haven't already.

your system looks and should kick some hard ****.

only suggesiton I have would be to place your surround farther apart. another two feet or so. and higher up if possible.

disneyjoe7

I agree with Treitz / known as Tom, Front speakers too close, rear surround too high. Start there then rerun any calibration you have either auto, or DVD.

ryanjoachim

Thanks for the tips guys. As far as the outlet goes: TV, blu-ray, receiver, computer, and cable box. The only things that draw much power are the tv and receiver.

ryanjoachim

It'll be a few days before I can do the calibration (gotta wait for the kids to go to daycare on Monday so I can have some quite time). Ah crap...I totally don't know where the hell my mic went to...

Conradicles

Your surround speakers should not be behind you on the rear wall.
They should be on the sides in a 5.1 set-up. That is part of your problem with surround effects. They look to be the correct height...just on the wrong wall.

I also agree, you need to space out the mains some more. They are too close if you sit that far back.

Great system...just try tweaking until you are satisfied. That is a very nice TV as well!!!

Conradicles

I just thought of one more thing...you may need to set the sub to "phase - 180 degree" since it is not on the same plane as your mains. Just trust your ears on that one.

ryanjoachim

Not sure what you mean about my surrounds? There is no wall to the left (looking at the pic) and the wall to the right is another 6ft away.

How else would I position them?

Maybe i'm calling them the wrong thing...this is a 5.1 setup, so would the just be "rear" speakers or "surround"?

ryanjoachim

I moved the fronts out and toe'd-in and pulled the center forward. I also set all the speakers to 80hz.

So far i've already noticed a good deal of difference in the quality of sound coming from those 3 speakers. I haven't yet had a chance to really test the surrounds or sub yet.

cnh

Surrounds should be above ear height facing your ears on the right and left walls or on stands on either side of your listening position. That's the ideal position...there are others. What you have is a compromise position with the speakers behind you...no,no! And them tilted in instead of full facing your ears or parallel to them.

Onkyos have an option for full range or full band for all speakers...make sure that your speakers are not set to that option....cross them over no lower than 80hz...

It is true, however that your fronts could use MORE power. But since you have decent subwoofing...let the sub take care of the LOWS and even a 605 should be able to take care of everything else above 80hz?

cnh

ryanjoachim

Well, I guess i'm kind of screwed then. I don't have stands, and I don't have side walls to put the speakers on.

Agent

The first thing I thought of when I saw your room was...he has kids...and then...he has kids and he leaves the grills off of his nice expensive speakers. Your brave my friend. I have three small children and wouldn't think of leaving the covers off. Funny story, my old onkyo htib box sub had an uncovered front port. Well after a while I thought the bass was starting to sound like ****. Well come to find out my kids stuck about 20 toys down into it.

As to your problem, I would definitely space the fronts out a bit more, maybe an extra foot on each side and tilt them in "slightly". Your surrounds shouldn't be that high. Bring them down closer to ear level. The immersive sound going on over your head. Are you driving those fronts with an amp. I didn't notice one in the picture but let me tell ya man, your only hearing half of those speakers without one, and I'm not kidding. An amp won't just make them louder, it will bring out sounds that you never heard before...literally. And yes, after you set the speakers up properly, run the calibration again. Good luck!