"Separation Issues" With the RTi12's...

comfortablycurt

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Well, that may be, Curt, but that doesn't mean that my purchase means any less to me or that I shouldn't be extremely, overly concerned because I paid "only" near $1K for my speakers -- it's like the theory of the guy who buys the Corolla not having a "right" to want to detail it each weekend nor be overtly paranoid about dings and scratches. To him, his $20,000 Corolla was a massive investment (most likely); does that mean that he doesn't have a right to ask sixty thousand questions about the car because he's concerned about something?

This is true. You should make sure you know everything you need to know.

The point is...you do know everything you need to know. Every question you've asked has been answered multiple times, through 5 different threads. You've gotten MANY replies that are all telling you the same things. I think we've determined that your placement is going to be fine. I think we've determined what crossover settings would be best to start with. I think we've determined that you need to convince your wife to let you toe your speakers in a hair.

You HAVE THE GEAR IN YOUR POSSESSION!!! All of these questions and doubts you're having, could be answered without question, by taking 15 minutes to hook your AVR and front speakers up...popping in a CD and seeing how they sound. Seriously man...hook them up. You're asking us how they speakers that YOU OWN or going to sound with YOUR AVR in YOUR ROOM...when you have all of said things right in front of you. We can't tell you how it's going to sound...other than it should sound fine given your placement. By listening to them...you will be able to alleviate all of these worries.

I don't think the "money" angle is relevant here, and as much as you thought my Obama comment was inappropriate (which I'll get to) I don't think your "money" comment was any more appropriate.

Oooookaaay....

I don't see what was inappropriate about my comments there...but alright.

You're comparing yourself taking a political jab at our President to me suggesting that you stop worrying so much about the speakers that you purchased. Yeah...that makes sense.


My point was...that you aren't spending 20,000 dollars on a pair of speakers for an incredibly high fidelity 2 channel music system. There is much less to be worried about with your system.

You're using an entry level AVR, with what would basically be considered upper-entry level speakers. Your soundstage is going to be compromised no matter what, due to being in the real world. You don't have a dedicated room, and your placement is a very far cry from being ideal. All of that doesn't matter!! We've suggested methods to use to compensate for the fact that, in your words..."the speakers just seem like they're going to be too far apart". You've said that you won't be able to toe your speakers in.

You think that they're going to be too far apart? Then find a way to move them closer. No amount of telling us about how you "think they might be too far apart" is going to make them any farther apart.

Buying any other speaker and putting it in the same location is going to result in them "seeming like they might be too far apart...so, no difference will be found there.

What exactly do you want us to tell you? Should we build you a new living room so that your speakers can be placed too close together like you want them to be? The location of your speakers, given the dimensions you've given us IS ABSOLUTELY FINE!!. This isn't just some crazy theory. This is according to specifications provided by Dolby Labs and THX. They kind of know what they're talking about.



Sorry if any of that sounded rude...but seriously man. Hook the gear up...and you will know how it sounds without question. Then you can tell us about how terrible it sounds, return your speakers, go out and buy a Bose Lifestyle system, and be completely content with your terrible sound.

Seriously. You've bought good gear. It is going to sound fine. No matter how much you might think "it seems too far apart"...it's not. From the sounds of it, you're just used to having your speakers too close together. I couldn't even imagine having my speakers any closer than 3 feet or so to the sides of my screen. Mine have nearly always been about 3.5-4' from the sides of the screen, and I'd have them much farther apart if I had the space. If I had a bigger room, I'd probably have them more like 5' away from the sides of the screen.


For the record...I won't be commenting in any of your threads until you have your gear hooked up. Trying to help you is giving me a headache.


Curt

anamorphic96

Another plus for using Audyssey. I only use the 2EQ version but it made a big difference. 2EQ in conjunction with my Velodyne SMS-1 and things sound real nice.

Mike go to the Audyssey website and read about the technology as well as reading the FAQ section. It will answer many questions as to why Audyssey does certain things.

Audyssey.com

anamorphic96

comfortablycurt wrote: »

This is true. You should make sure you know everything you need to know.

The point is...you do know everything you need to know. Every question you've asked has been answered multiple times, through 5 different threads. You've gotten MANY replies that are all telling you the same things. I think we've determined that your placement is going to be fine. I think we've determined what crossover settings would be best to start with. I think we've determined that you need to convince your wife to let you toe your speakers in a hair.

You HAVE THE GEAR IN YOUR POSSESSION!!! All of these questions and doubts you're having, could be answered without question, by taking 15 minutes to hook your AVR and front speakers up...popping in a CD and seeing how they sound. Seriously man...hook them up. You're asking us how they speakers that YOU OWN or going to sound with YOUR AVR in YOUR ROOM...when you have all of said things right in front of you. We can't tell you how it's going to sound...other than it should sound fine given your placement. By listening to them...you will be able to alleviate all of these worries.




Oooookaaay....

I don't see what was inappropriate about my comments there...but alright.

You're comparing yourself taking a political jab at our President to me suggesting that you stop worrying so much about the speakers that you purchased. Yeah...that makes sense.


My point was...that you aren't spending 20,000 dollars on a pair of speakers for an incredibly high fidelity 2 channel music system. There is much less to be worried about with your system.

You're using an entry level AVR, with what would basically be considered upper-entry level speakers. Your soundstage is going to be compromised no matter what, due to being in the real world. You don't have a dedicated room, and your placement is a very far cry from being ideal. All of that doesn't matter!! We've suggested methods to use to compensate for the fact that, in your words..."the speakers just seem like they're going to be too far apart". You've said that you won't be able to toe your speakers in.

You think that they're going to be too far apart? Then find a way to move them closer. No amount of telling us about how you "think they might be too far apart" is going to make them any farther apart.

Buying any other speaker and putting it in the same location is going to result in them "seeming like they might be too far apart...so, no difference will be found there.

What exactly do you want us to tell you? Should we build you a new living room so that your speakers can be placed too close together like you want them to be? The location of your speakers, given the dimensions you've given us IS ABSOLUTELY FINE!!. This isn't just some crazy theory. This is according to specifications provided by Dolby Labs and THX. They kind of know what they're talking about.



Sorry if any of that sounded rude...but seriously man. Hook the gear up...and you will know how it sounds without question. Then you can tell us about how terrible it sounds, return your speakers, go out and buy a Bose Lifestyle system, and be completely content with your terrible sound.

Seriously. You've bought good gear. It is going to sound fine. No matter how much you might think "it seems too far apart"...it's not. From the sounds of it, you're just used to having your speakers too close together. I couldn't even imagine having my speakers any closer than 3 feet or so to the sides of my screen. Mine have nearly always been about 3.5-4' from the sides of the screen, and I'd have them much farther apart if I had the space. If I had a bigger room, I'd probably have them more like 5' away from the sides of the screen.


For the record...I won't be commenting in any of your threads until you have your gear hooked up. Trying to help you is giving me a headache.


Curt

Nicely put Curt.

I have not participated in this thread as giving advice to Mike is an exercise in futility and it was like talking to a brick wall.

Mike your a good guy.;):) But all your questions have been answered 5 times over. Take a chill pill until your all hooked up and you have posted a picture.

As I stated above I like you and your a good guy. But stop posting on this subject until you have pics posted. It's useless otherwise.

Mike LoManaco

comfortablycurt wrote: »

This is true. You should make sure you know everything you need to know.

The point is...you do know everything you need to know. Every question you've asked has been answered multiple times, through 5 different threads. You've gotten MANY replies that are all telling you the same things. I think we've determined that your placement is going to be fine. I think we've determined what crossover settings would be best to start with. I think we've determined that you need to convince your wife to let you toe your speakers in a hair.

I understand that we've determined these factors; I am responding to, and referring to, the comments being made regarding your statements about the people on here who have paid a boatload more money than I have for my RTi12's, and they're not acting as "worried" about it -- my point was trying to make you understand WHY I'm so concerned about it, and my analogy was via the person with the Corolla, who may feel he needs to get all the information he needs to because to HIM, the Corolla is the best means of transportation within his budget.

This is all why I'm saying let's abandon the conversation until I get the gear up and running.

You HAVE THE GEAR IN YOUR POSSESSION!!! All of these questions and doubts you're having, could be answered without question, by taking 15 minutes to hook your AVR and front speakers up...popping in a CD and seeing how they sound. Seriously man...hook them up. You're asking us how they speakers that YOU OWN or going to sound with YOUR AVR in YOUR ROOM...when you have all of said things right in front of you. We can't tell you how it's going to sound...other than it should sound fine given your placement. By listening to them...you will be able to alleviate all of these worries.

Honestly, they're not worries, and the threads were directed more towards asking questions regarding the appropriate distances between main channels and if my particular dimensions were suitable for front stage spread (because as I have said, I have had experience with horribly placed front stage effects).

Oooookaaay....

I don't see what was inappropriate about my comments there...but alright.

You're comparing yourself taking a political jab at our President to me suggesting that you stop worrying so much about the speakers that you purchased. Yeah...that makes sense.

Some of this statement falls into the category of "I have no idea what you are talking about," but I attempted to explain why I made the comment I did; it was more about the quality of my phone's camera and how I compared it to what I feel personally about what is happening to this country under the current administration. Whether this "makes sense" to you or not, many people I know that are VERY close to me have been affected by decisions made by this cabinet, and the upcoming health plan situation is probably going to kill my father in law, who suffers with stage four lung cancer. That's a discussion for another day.

Also, I felt your comment about what these people paid for their speaker systems was inappropriate because to ME, it felt as though because I didn't pay as much for mine, why am I asking so many questions, or, as you put it, "worrying" about them. Whether that was your intention or not, it rubbed me the wrong way. That's what I am saying about that.

My point was...that you aren't spending 20,000 dollars on a pair of speakers for an incredibly high fidelity 2 channel music system. There is much less to be worried about with your system.

First of all, given the level of the amplification stage I will be driving these "500 watts per channel maximum" loudspeakers with, and the fact that my room is going to be of a strange variety in terms of placement (at least how I see it), there IS some factoring here that should be "concern oriented." I have gotten conflicting answers on whether or not the 605 would even be REMOTELY suitable or powerful enough to power the 12's, with some saying you'll be fine because they're relatively easy-to-power 8 ohm loads, while others like Anamorphic (on another site) has continuously driven home the point that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY my 605 AVR can power these speakers. Wouldn't this be cause to be concerned and confused?

You're using an entry level AVR, with what would basically be considered upper-entry level speakers. Your soundstage is going to be compromised no matter what, due to being in the real world. You don't have a dedicated room, and your placement is a very far cry from being ideal. All of that doesn't matter!! We've suggested methods to use to compensate for the fact that, in your words..."the speakers just seem like they're going to be too far apart". You've said that you won't be able to toe your speakers in.

Again -- you may repeat all you want that the AVR is an "entry level" species, but there are a handful of other models in their lineup that TRULY constitue "entry level." Given that, I understand what you're saying regarding compensating for the non-ideal situation via toe in and such -- I SAID I WOULD TRY IT if I came to that.

You think that they're going to be too far apart? Then find a way to move them closer. No amount of telling us about how you "think they might be too far apart" is going to make them any farther apart.

There is NO OPTION for pulling them closer together. THAT'S why I want to be sure 3 1/2 or so feet from the screen to the speaker is sufficient.

What exactly do you want us to tell you? Should we build you a new living room so that your speakers can be placed too close together like you want them to be? The location of your speakers, given the dimensions you've given us IS ABSOLUTELY FINE!!. This isn't just some crazy theory. This is according to specifications provided by Dolby Labs and THX. They kind of know what they're talking about.

No, I don't want you to "build me a new living room" so that the speakers can be closer together -- that's absolutely ridiculous, and you know it.

Sorry if any of that sounded rude...but seriously man. Hook the gear up...and you will know how it sounds without question. Then you can tell us about how terrible it sounds, return your speakers, go out and buy a Bose Lifestyle system, and be completely content with your terrible sound.

Again -- completely uncalled for when I'm treating you with a civil tongue and saying I am willing to try toe in and everything else that's being suggested when I can. I would NEVER in my LIFETIME or the next buy ANYTHING Bose, so I don't know where you came up with this notion -- I've even steered people on this forum away from that brand when they've questioned it.

Seriously. You've bought good gear. It is going to sound fine. No matter how much you might think "it seems too far apart"...it's not. From the sounds of it, you're just used to having your speakers too close together. I couldn't even imagine having my speakers any closer than 3 feet or so to the sides of my screen. Mine have nearly always been about 3.5-4' from the sides of the screen, and I'd have them much farther apart if I had the space. If I had a bigger room, I'd probably have them more like 5' away from the sides of the screen.

I hear you. I still think your notions of "five or more feet" from the screen is excessive, and really pulling the front stage out beyond realism.

For the record...I won't be commenting in any of your threads until you have your gear hooked up. Trying to help you is giving me a headache.

Oh boy. :rolleyes: Okay; your perrogative. To be equally pragmatic, trying to defend myself against allegations and accusations regarding my intentions here and my input by nearly everyone gives me more than a headache; it borders on blood-pressure-raising.

Still, through it all, I THANK YOU VERY MUCH for all your continued help with this. And I will CONTINUE to thank you, regardless of what you think of me personally; I just find it curious that when I make the attempt to end the conversation by stating "let's drop this thread and discussion until everything is hooked up" in the last long reply to you, it wasn't good enough...it had to be on your ending terms by saying "I won't be commenting in any of your threads until you have your gear hooked up..."

But I had suggested to do that in the last reply to you, if you look closely...

At any rate, thanks again 'Curt. I will take all your input into consideration.

Mike LoManaco

anamorphic96 wrote: »

Nicely put Curt.

I have not participated in this thread as giving advice to Mike is an exercise in futility and it was like talking to a brick wall.

Mike your a good guy.;):) But all your questions have been answered 5 times over. Take a chill pill until your all hooked up and you have posted a picture.

As I stated above I like you and your a good guy. But stop posting on this subject until you have pics posted. It's useless otherwise.

Let me see if I have this right...you joined this forum on the basis of seeing this thread of mine as a connection to the thread in the other forum, and you claim you've lurked but never joined, and you say that giving advice to me is an exercise in futility and it's like talking to a brick wall? Are you SERIOUS? Where are you getting this from? We've only had a handful of conversations in the past, and THIS IS THE FIRST ONE WE'VE HAD IN THIS FORUM...

anamorphic96

comfortablycurt wrote: »

This is true. You should make sure you know everything you need to know.

The point is...you do know everything you need to know. Every question you've asked has been answered multiple times, through 5 different threads. You've gotten MANY replies that are all telling you the same things. I think we've determined that your placement is going to be fine. I think we've determined what crossover settings would be best to start with. I think we've determined that you need to convince your wife to let you toe your speakers in a hair.

You HAVE THE GEAR IN YOUR POSSESSION!!! All of these questions and doubts you're having, could be answered without question, by taking 15 minutes to hook your AVR and front speakers up...popping in a CD and seeing how they sound. Seriously man...hook them up. You're asking us how they speakers that YOU OWN or going to sound with YOUR AVR in YOUR ROOM...when you have all of said things right in front of you. We can't tell you how it's going to sound...other than it should sound fine given your placement. By listening to them...you will be able to alleviate all of these worries.




Oooookaaay....

I don't see what was inappropriate about my comments there...but alright.

You're comparing yourself taking a political jab at our President to me suggesting that you stop worrying so much about the speakers that you purchased. Yeah...that makes sense.


My point was...that you aren't spending 20,000 dollars on a pair of speakers for an incredibly high fidelity 2 channel music system. There is much less to be worried about with your system.

You're using an entry level AVR, with what would basically be considered upper-entry level speakers. Your soundstage is going to be compromised no matter what, due to being in the real world. You don't have a dedicated room, and your placement is a very far cry from being ideal. All of that doesn't matter!! We've suggested methods to use to compensate for the fact that, in your words..."the speakers just seem like they're going to be too far apart". You've said that you won't be able to toe your speakers in.

You think that they're going to be too far apart? Then find a way to move them closer. No amount of telling us about how you "think they might be too far apart" is going to make them any farther apart.

Buying any other speaker and putting it in the same location is going to result in them "seeming like they might be too far apart...so, no difference will be found there.

What exactly do you want us to tell you? Should we build you a new living room so that your speakers can be placed too close together like you want them to be? The location of your speakers, given the dimensions you've given us IS ABSOLUTELY FINE!!. This isn't just some crazy theory. This is according to specifications provided by Dolby Labs and THX. They kind of know what they're talking about.



Sorry if any of that sounded rude...but seriously man. Hook the gear up...and you will know how it sounds without question. Then you can tell us about how terrible it sounds, return your speakers, go out and buy a Bose Lifestyle system, and be completely content with your terrible sound.

Seriously. You've bought good gear. It is going to sound fine. No matter how much you might think "it seems too far apart"...it's not. From the sounds of it, you're just used to having your speakers too close together. I couldn't even imagine having my speakers any closer than 3 feet or so to the sides of my screen. Mine have nearly always been about 3.5-4' from the sides of the screen, and I'd have them much farther apart if I had the space. If I had a bigger room, I'd probably have them more like 5' away from the sides of the screen.


For the record...I won't be commenting in any of your threads until you have your gear hooked up. Trying to help you is giving me a headache.


Curt

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Let me see if I have this right...you joined this forum on the basis of seeing this thread of mine as a connection to the thread in the other forum, and you claim you've lurked but never joined, and you say that giving advice to me is an exercise in futility and it's like talking to a brick wall? Are you SERIOUS? Where are you getting this from? We've only had a handful of conversations in the past, and THIS IS THE FIRST ONE WE'VE HAD IN THIS FORUM...

Yes I am serious. Your questions get answered and then you ask them again and again. I don't get it. Look at this thread. I followed it from the begining to watch how it would turn out and its like I predicted. You ask a question. It gets answered with accurate information. Then you keep on about the same question. The post about beating a dead horse 5 times over is extremely accurate when it comes to your threads.

Mike LoManaco

anamorphic96 wrote: »

Yes I am serious. Your questions get answered and then you ask them again and again. I don't get it. Look at this thread. I followed it from the begining to watch how it would turn out and its like I predicted. You ask a question. It gets answered with accurate information. Then you keep on about the same question. The post about beating a dead horse 5 times over is extremely accurate when it comes to your threads.

Nice. Exactly what I wanted to know, and what I thought.

That's really a shame.

You know, maybe if it wasn't for people like you, making things more confusing than they have to be and telling me that my receiver ABSOLUTELY cannot drive those speakers, when OTHER people are telling me that it's fine, people like me wouldn't need to ask these questions multiple times. Because I get constant contadictory advice, it requires me to investigate further with the hopes that more than one person will be consistent with their thoughts, and perhaps that will be closer to the truth and what's truly going on with these electronic devices working amongst one another.

You're complaining about my tendency to "beat a dead horse" and yet you came into this thread just to add to that -- it just doesn't make sense to me. YOU AND I had an ORIGINAL discussion in the other forum about the 605 and its inability to drive these speakers, and now you're simply throwing gasoline on a flame regarding the answering of "distance" questions I had about these same speakers -- my initial inquiries IN THIS THREAD were regarding the distance these speakers will be from the screen and how this will affect soundstage imaging...don't just continue posting, claiming that I'm not listening, or a horse is being beaten to death. Try and see the issues and where they're going; I ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT I MAY NEED TO TOE-IN. I have said I accept this and I will try it.

There's no horse that's being beat here.

anamorphic96

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Nice. Exactly what I wanted to know, and what I thought.

That's really a shame.

You know, maybe if it wasn't for people like you, making things more confusing than they have to be and telling me that my receiver ABSOLUTELY cannot drive those speakers, when OTHER people are telling me that it's fine, people like me wouldn't need to ask these questions multiple times. Because I get constant contadictory advice, it requires me to investigate further with the hopes that more than one person will be consistent with their thoughts, and perhaps that will be closer to the truth and what's truly going on with these electronic devices working amongst one another.

You're complaining about my tendency to "beat a dead horse" and yet you came into this thread just to add to that -- it just doesn't make sense to me. YOU AND I had an ORIGINAL discussion in the other forum about the 605 and its inability to drive these speakers, and now you're simply throwing gasoline on a flame regarding the answering of "distance" questions I had about these same speakers -- my initial inquiries IN THIS THREAD were regarding the distance these speakers will be from the screen and how this will affect soundstage imaging...don't just continue posting, claiming that I'm not listening, or a horse is being beaten to death. Try and see the issues and where they're going; I ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT I MAY NEED TO TOE-IN. I have said I accept this and I will try it.

There's no horse that's being beat here.

Then it should not take 90+ posts to get a point across. 90+ posts is beating a dead horse in my book. Many other posters have expressed the same feeling.

As far as your amp goes I came back shortly and restated my position as I had thought things through a little more. I also stated why I made my original decision in the first place to clarify things and help you better understand my reasoning.

I have stuck with your threads as I see you as someone who cares more than others. I enjoy helping you except for the fact your a little thick headed. If you read my post I stated I think your a good guy but you seem to have taken things out of perspective and misunderstood my intentions. i will try and be more subtle in the future.

I still think you should relax on posting about this topic until you are hooked up and have posted pics.

kuntasensei

Seriously, guys... just stop now. You're not going to make it any better, and you're going to end up drawing grief from Patrick over it when Mike starts feeling persecuted (as he already is, based on his response to curt about "trying to defend myself against allegations and accusations" when no one here is attacking him). We've tried to help him, answered all of his questions definitively and with reference links, and though his questions have been asked and answered, it won't stop here. This is the same defensive behavior and repetitive posting that got him banned from AVSforum's Oppo BDP-83 thread and blu-ray.com's forums, and it's only going to go the exact same train wreck of a way that his Unborn review (and many others) went. And I promise you from personal experience that no matter how much trouble he causes, you'll be the one on the receiving end of the punishment at the end of it all, no matter how polite you tried to be.

So please, for the sake of our little community, stop responding and pray that Mike sees the light when he gets it all hooked up and finds out that our advice was sound. The horse massacre can only be stopped by the calm and rational.

Ricardo

You guys still here? Good. Keep feeding Mike all that attention. That will keep him happy.