Video Calibration?

cstmar01

So I have a blue ray for helping set up my system. However I was just looking for either what to use or who to use for calibration. I have my PJ which used to be owned by a dealer and he stated it was calibrated at one point but doesn't remember when. I guess I really don't know much about what they would have to do or the details of how to get it calibrated but I would be willing to see what either I can do myself, or who I would have to hire to do so.
Thanks!

kuntasensei

Well, the important things to get right are black level and white level with a projector. If he said the projector was calibrated, he likely means that the color temperature was adjusted to 6500k using the proper instrumentation (typically a colorimeter). As long as it's not a CRT projector, it'll probably stay fairly close to its calibrated setting, because LCD and DLP projectors don't tend to drift much other than when the bulb dims.

What BD do you have for calibration? Maybe I can walk you through black level and white level. Alternately, I can point you toward AVSforum's 709HD calibration disc, which is free to download and you just burn it to a DVD.

billbillw

Any calibration performed on the projector is probably useless now. Calibrations are specific to each input. Different source, different calibration. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just do as said above. Set black and white levels (brightness/contrast) so that your blacks look black, and your whites look white (but aren't blown out). Then set color to look natural, usually warm or normal setting is close to standard.

If you have a video setup disc (like Avia, etc), they usually have instructional videos included on how to optimally adjust user settings.

jinjuku

Calibration is dependent on:

Source
Lighting Conditions
Screen

That PJ was only calibrated for the dealers showroom.

If you change any of those you are re-calibrating. My Sanyo has multiple factory default modes (I believe 7 of them) and 4 user defined.

You can do as others have stated here and do it by untrained eye, or you can drop $32 on the Avia II DVD with color filters and do it correctly. With Avia II expect about an 1/2 to 1 hour. You will want to watch it through to know what to expect. The calibration will take ~10 minutes per condition in actual.

I intend to only run lights out with it in a low power setting to extend bulb life so I only have two user defined calibration slots taken up. One is for my HTPC and the other one is for the cable company DVR. Soon as I can get an OCUR tuner and M-Class cable card for the HTPC I will simply be down to one user defined setting. The rest of the time I am going out to the 37" LCD.

kuntasensei

Calibrating to the source was more important pre-HDMI. Now that the levels are digital, there's only going to be slight variance between sources. Not that I'm saying it'll be pre-calibrated, but it'll be closer than it would've been out of the box. Where the variance comes in is typically in black level and white level, which is what you'll want to focus on. There's also variance if he calibrated it on a different screen, but so long as both screens are fairly neutral and don't have serious color shift, it won't be a massive difference.

Sure, you can drop $32 on Avia II... but it isn't necessarily the best way to go unless you're doing very basic calibration. AVSforum's free 1080p disc (which can be found here) has patterns for the same tests, and can be played in most Blu-ray players (and across your network to your 360 if need be). The only difference will be that you don't get the color filters... which is not a huge issue, because color filters are one of the most inaccurate ways to set color, though they'll get you there closer than doing it by eye. The blue filters included with calibration discs vary too much to be of use to a serious enthusiast. To really adjust color correctly, you'd need a colorimeter.

How accurate you get your display depends on how much time and effort you're willing to spend. An actual calibrator will charge you about $400 to come in and do grayscale and color. However, if you have an interest in learning more and being able to do general calibration yourself, snag an Eyeone Display LT for about $150 and get a free copy of HCFR to use with it. This gives you similar tools to a calibrator and lets you experiment with things on your own time. It also does an automatic calibration of your computer monitor with its own pack-in software, which is nice for using your monitor as a calibrated reference (i.e. putting the same image on both and seeing what needs work with your projector's image). The AVS disc has all the window patterns the HCFR software needs to give you a full grayscale reading from 0-100IRE.

Sherardp

Get yourself an eyeone and be on your way. Here's a very helpful guide to getting it done and should help you improve image quality.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

cstmar01

The Blue Ray I have is the one that is sold over at Oppo. It does a decent job, but I just didn't know how to take it to the next level. I really want to make sure I am getting the best image possibly, and I like the idea of the Eyeone. I plan on switching PJ's a bit until I find the one that I like the best as the one I currently have wasn't very much but I want to get the best picture possible out of it.
Thanks for the advice on the Eyeone and also the free download at AVS. I'll check them out and will probably pick it up soon.

kuntasensei

Sherardp wrote: »

Get yourself an eyeone and be on your way. Here's a very helpful guide to getting it done and should help you improve image quality.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Thanks for digging that up, man. I wanted to include it, but I didn't have it bookmarked at work.

DMara

kuntasensei wrote: »

What BD do you have for calibration? Maybe I can walk you through black level and white level. Alternately, I can point you toward AVSforum's 709HD calibration disc, which is free to download and you just burn it to a DVD.

cstmar01 wrote: »

The Blue Ray I have is the one that is sold over at Oppo. It does a decent job, but I just didn't know how to take it to the next level.

The Oppo BDP-83 came with a Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark Blu-ray Edition calibration disc.

kuntasensei

The S&M disc is good. Following the directions for black and white levels ought to get you where you need to be. If you're not sure what you're looking for with those patterns, check their website.

jinjuku

kuntasensei wrote: »

Sure, you can drop $32 on Avia II... but it isn't necessarily the best way to go unless you're doing very basic calibration. AVSforum's free 1080p disc (which can be found here) has patterns for the same tests, and can be played in most Blu-ray players (and across your network to your 360 if need be). The only difference will be that you don't get the color filters... which is not a huge issue, because color filters are one of the most inaccurate ways to set color, though they'll get you there closer than doing it by eye. The blue filters included with calibration discs vary too much to be of use to a serious enthusiast. To really adjust color correctly, you'd need a colorimeter.

Agree with you there. Avia II can get you into a good ballpark though. I think almost everyone here including my self have wasted more $$ on lesser things than Avia II

I use Avia to get the rough settings in and then manually tweak to suite. As an example I used Casino Royal to adjust the red/blue push after Avia calibration was done.

Same goes with the HT Eq. I let the EQ routine run, then use REW to set a house curve for the Subs, THEN I put both Master and Commander and Lord of the Rings and use a few scenes in there to adjust my speakers and sub with.

digitalvideo

You should always hire a professional certified ISF calibrator for that if I were you. Some of the best are Jim Doolittle and Gregg Loewen.

http://www.tweaktv.com/who-we-are/jim-doolittle-professional-calibrator-technical-editor-blogger.html

http://www.isftv.com/ISF_Calibrators.html

http://www.avconsulting.us/isftvpage.html

Gregg Loewen:

http://www.lionav.com/

kuntasensei

Don't look at me for sanity in purchasing... I have Avia, DVE, GetGray, AVS 709 HD, Spears & Munsil BD, and a few others, as well as 1920x1080 patterns on my PC for setting my Xbox 360.

kuntasensei

digitalvideo wrote: »

You should always hire a professional certified ISF calibrator for that if I were you. Some of the best are Jim Doolittle and Gregg Loewen.

http://www.tweaktv.com/who-we-are/jim-doolittle-professional-calibrator-technical-editor-blogger.html

http://www.isftv.com/ISF_Calibrators.html

http://www.avconsulting.us/isftvpage.html

Gregg Loewen:

http://www.lionav.com/

Gregg's awesome, and a generally good guy to watch work. He did my old RPTV years ago, and it still looks amazing (though it's now relegated to a spare bedroom). Still, for a projector, there's a lot you can do before ISF calibration that will make them pretty damn good... and odds are that AVSforum has a tweak thread for just about any model. I did quite a bit of work in the Sanyo PLV-Z2000 thread there, and it's a good place to find advice on your individual projector's settings to be used in conjunction with a calibration disc. That'll get you half-way there.

Still, if you're patient and willing to learn, go the HCFR route and you'll get very nice results... and be able to tweak it yourself as your bulb ages.

jinjuku

kuntasensei wrote: »

Gregg's awesome, and a generally good guy to watch work. He did my old RPTV years ago, and it still looks amazing (though it's now relegated to a spare bedroom). Still, for a projector, there's a lot you can do before ISF calibration that will make them pretty damn good... and odds are that AVSforum has a tweak thread for just about any model. I did quite a bit of work in the Sanyo PLV-Z2000 thread there, and it's a good place to find advice on your individual projector's settings to be used in conjunction with a calibration disc. That'll get you half-way there.

Still, if you're patient and willing to learn, go the HCFR route and you'll get very nice results... and be able to tweak it yourself as your bulb ages.

Good point, re-calibration after a few hundred hours and again ~1000 hour mark is essential.

cstmar01

kuntasensei wrote: »

Gregg's awesome, and a generally good guy to watch work. He did my old RPTV years ago, and it still looks amazing (though it's now relegated to a spare bedroom). Still, for a projector, there's a lot you can do before ISF calibration that will make them pretty damn good... and odds are that AVSforum has a tweak thread for just about any model. I did quite a bit of work in the Sanyo PLV-Z2000 thread there, and it's a good place to find advice on your individual projector's settings to be used in conjunction with a calibration disc. That'll get you half-way there.

Still, if you're patient and willing to learn, go the HCFR route and you'll get very nice results... and be able to tweak it yourself as your bulb ages.

I really do like that idea of the HCFR. Honestly if I could in my later years get more experience under my belt I think it would be fun as a side job to be a dealer or work for one. So the more experience I get the more it could help.
Regardless if I ever do that, I still like to be able to get the best picture possible for my own gear.
I love being able to play around and tweak stuff myself so I think it would be a fun way to go. Are there classes these guys take to become ISF certified? or how do they do it? I think that would be fun to go through as well.
Also I didn't know if I really should wait until I get a new PJ to have a professional do it, or have them both done even if I'm not keeping it for that long.
I'm looking at getting the sharp XV-Z20000 as an upgrade as there is a guy selling one used for pretty cheap. I'm just trying to decide if it would really be worth getting that one or getting something like the Epson 9500UB instead or what else, so I've been spending a lot of time reading reviews and doing homework.
Sorry for the off topic, but I do like all the suggestions being made, thanks guys!

kuntasensei

Yeah, there are workshops for ISF certification. Check the ISF website for details. The link to the curtpalme site earlier in the thread does a pretty fair job of explaining adjustments for us tweakers though, so it's worth a read.

I'm looking to replace my Sanyo in about 6 months, probably with an Epson. The 8500UB has me drooling.

Sherardp

Sherardp wrote: »

Get yourself an eyeone and be on your way. Here's a very helpful guide to getting it done and should help you improve image quality.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

I'm quote myself for the simple fact that I followed my own advice. I bought an Eyeone and used the HCFR software. To get to the meat of this post, the results were nothing short of amazing and proved very useful. For you guys on the fense I highly recommend this especially for you projector owners.

When I took the initial readings with the Eyeone my lumen output was only 8.29ftl, which is very low. I ran the greyscale calibration and was able to get everything within 10pts on the deltaE scale, some of you may get even better results but 10 is considered pretty good, under 3 is perfect. After greyscale calibration all I can say is "WOW". The results are nothing short of a stunning image. 12.98 ftl lumen output, simply jaw dropping blacks. It reminds me of the 1st day I got the RS10 mounted since I bought it calibrated from AVS. For the price you can't beat it, I paid $134.00 shipped from B&H photo. Should any of you choose to jump, the model you need is the EyeOne LT, the HCFR (color)software is free.

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php

It will also improve results on any display really, I think you PJ owners will really benefit from the results. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

kuntasensei

I got my Z2000 under 3 deltaE using the Eyeone Display LT. Had damn near perfect grayscale from 20-90IRE. Only problem is that there was no way to get gamma over 2.09, so it lacked pop. It looks very good, but... it does nag at me that the Sanyo could've been perfect if it had a little more range in red. That's part of why I'm thinking of ditching it once the warranty runs out in favor of the Epson.

Sherardp

kuntasensei wrote: »

I got my Z2000 under 3 deltaE using the Eyeone Display LT. Had damn near perfect grayscale from 20-90IRE. Only problem is that there was no way to get gamma over 2.09, so it lacked pop. It looks very good, but... it does nag at me that the Sanyo could've been perfect if it had a little more range in red. That's part of why I'm thinking of ditching it once the warranty runs out in favor of the Epson.

I running the JVC @ normal gamma but it does allow for custom all the way up to 2.6. I'm going to toy around with it more over the weekend to see if I can get even better results. For what I have achieved so far I am very impressed at what this little device, especially at it's price point. For some reason I thought you already the Epson bro.

kuntasensei

Nah, didn't get the Epson yet. Been trying to stick it out with the Sanyo until the warranty runs in August, primarily to see if any new Epsons get announced by then. My Z2000 has a polarizer issue right now that needs to be repaired, but I can never find a time lately where I want to be without the projector for 3 days while they do it (plus, Sanyo's notorious for trying to stick you with a $400 cleaning charge when you send things in for warranty service).

The Sanyo's a weird beast. If you max out contrast, you can't get proper gamma. If you smooth out gamma to the 2.2 standard, you get dull whites. It could probably be mitigated with a color correcting filter on the lens so you could overdrive green a bit, but... with so many projectors out now that can achieve 2.2 gamma and 6500k grayscale without an external filter, why go to the trouble? I'm sure I'll end up with the Epson 8500UB before long. From what I've read of their pre-calibrated THX mode, it shouldn't take long with the Eyeone to dial that sucker in.

Bernal

DMara wrote: »

The Oppo BDP-83 came with a Spears & Munsil High Definition Benchmark Blu-ray Edition calibration disc.

+1



_____________________________________
01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio
04) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
05) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
06) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
07) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
11) POLKAUDIO LSiC Vertically (Surround speaker)
12) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround back speakers)
13) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround back speakers)
14) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12"(High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=98096[/QUOTE]