Pro Amp for home audio use

Canadian12

I want to keep this as simple as I can, so I'm going to throw it out there.

Can anyone tell me why I shouldn't get a Pro Amp to drive my RTI12's?

Was thinking of:
- Crown XLS802 or K2 (500w/chn)
- QSC CX902 (550w/chn)

What is the difference between these and a 'designated' Home Audio Amp?

There must be some difference. The pricing suggest massive difference.

Voltage? Quality?

treitz3

Hello, the quality of sound suffers with pro amplifiers. They are built for one thing and one thing only......that is to be loud. I have found in my own audio journey that power does not ever equate to sonic bliss. I've had 3600+ watts in a rig before and as little as 8. The 8 watts sounded definitely better in many aspects than the 3600 watts.

I'm currently running two 40 watt tube amps and my sound has never been better. I have yet to hear a pro amp that I would consider as a home amp, as they all have a sonic signature that is not pleasing to the ear. My ear, at least.

phuz

If you want your rig to sound like a night club or rave, go for it.

Canadian12

Thanks for your reply. What's your recommendation? I'd like so more power and loudness, but I don't want to sacrifice the quality, nor $$$$$'s.

Thoughts?

treitz3

Try looking at some offerings by Carver. Specifically the M1.5t or the M-500t.

Canadian12

Ever run into this Carver?

http://carvermk2.com/m10tmkII/m10tmkII.htm

treitz3

Yes I have. I have had that exact amp hooked up to my rig and though I feel the seller is a complete liar and soulless being, I can not lie about the effectiveness of his work. The M1.0t MKII will outperform the stock version in spades. The one thing I remember about using this in my rig was that your ears will give out LONG before the amp will.

It sounds exactly like a stock version of the M1.0t but with one exception. You turn it up and keep turning it up and it will not run out of steam. It takes what you dish it and keeps laughing at you, wanting more. I strongly dislike the seller as a human being but like I said, I can not lie about his work. I prefer the M-500t MKII more so than the M1.0t MKII just because of the sonic signature.

If you have any questions concerning any and all Carver gear, I have heard most everything in my system and will be more than willing to offer my observations. If I haven't heard it in my system, I most likely have heard it in one system or another.

Canadian12

Thanks Treitz. I appreciate your objectiveness and cander. I may just take you up on your offer for assistance.

Like most of us out there, I want and crave more power, without 'peeving' the wife off too much.

The Carver mkII models looked promising, especially at $650.00. Any other suggestions?

treitz3

Only maybe the offerings from Sunfire or Emotiva, unless you are interested in tubes.

quadzilla

treitz3 wrote: »

Hello, the quality of sound suffers with pro amplifiers. They are built for one thing and one thing only......that is to be loud. I have found in my own audio journey that power does not ever equate to sonic bliss. I've had 3600+ watts in a rig before and as little as 8. The 8 watts sounded definitely better in many aspects than the 3600 watts.

I'm currently running two 40 watt tube amps and my sound has never been better. I have yet to hear a pro amp that I would consider as a home amp, as they all have a sonic signature that is not pleasing to the ear. My ear, at least.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to strongly disagree with these statements in the context of the OP's question. Pro amps work quite well in this application. They provide great head room. And since most have a damping factor of > 300, they provide very tight bass. That, and many can go as low as 5 Hz for their -3db point. And the high power provides for excellent dynamics and transient response. They're also very cost effective, since most amps that can deliver anything over 250 wpc and is designed specifically for HT/home audio is rather pricey, the pro lines become even more attractive.

While a low watt amp combined with a very high sensitivty speaker can sound good, the RTi series is not at that level of sensivity. I tried several amps with my RTi12s, and the Mackies ruled them all. That's why I run each of my 12s bi-amped with 1400i amps. I also replaced the stock fans with one much quiter, which is very easy.

However, as mentioned, it will depend not only on the listener, but also on the other compents in the system. But the RTi series definitely likes power, and neither an 8 watt, nor a 40 watt anything will bring out what they have to deliver. 250 would be the minimum starting point from what I found.

Bernal

Denon....

treitz3

quadzilla wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm going to have to strongly disagree with these statements in the context of the OP's question....

That's OK. No issues here, we can just agree to disagree.

quadzilla wrote: »

....However, as mentioned, it will depend not only on the listener, but also on the other components in the system. But the RTi series definitely likes power, and neither an 8 watt, nor a 40 watt anything will bring out what they have to deliver. 250 would be the minimum starting point from what I found.

Have you tried an 8 watt or a 40 watt tube amp yet on these?

tonyb

quadzilla wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm going to have to strongly disagree with these statements in the context of the OP's question. Pro amps work quite well in this application. They provide great head room. And since most have a damping factor of > 300, they provide very tight bass. That, and many can go as low as 5 Hz for their -3db point. And the high power provides for excellent dynamics and transient response. They're also very cost effective, since most amps that can deliver anything over 250 wpc and is designed specifically for HT/home audio is rather pricey, the pro lines become even more attractive.

While a low watt amp combined with a very high sensitivty speaker can sound good, the RTi series is not at that level of sensivity. I tried several amps with my RTi12s, and the Mackies ruled them all. That's why I run each of my 12s bi-amped with 1400i amps. I also replaced the stock fans with one much quiter, which is very easy.

However, as mentioned, it will depend not only on the listener, but also on the other compents in the system. But the RTi series definitely likes power, and neither an 8 watt, nor a 40 watt anything will bring out what they have to deliver. 250 would be the minimum starting point from what I found.

Respectfully disagree with your statements also. A 40 watt tube amp can very well out perform a 250 watt SS amp. Then again,if all your interested in low bass,not quality bass, shrill highs,and listening fatigue, then a pro amp is up your alley. I guess we all have our own opinions on what quality sound actually sounds like. If that floats your boat,then rock on, but for me,a pro amp in the home environment is about as far from quality sound as a KIller whale is to a goldfish. Thats just me though, and my .02. Carry on..

nguyendot

Bernal wrote: »

Denon....

What does Denon have that can come even close to the level of power discussed in this thread?

hearingimpared

I've owned Crown amps in the '80s and I can tell ya, the 200 wpc NAD 2200 PE amps beat them in every aspect especially imaging. You can still get the NADs or you could go with Adcoms 565 mono blocks for 300 wpc. If you go that route it would behoove you to check out Musical Concepts upgrades/updates to get the most refinement in SQ and to ensure the caps are not leaky as they had a bad run of caps in that model.

Here a link to Musical Concepts Adcom upgrade page.

http://www.musicaldesign.com/MC_AdcomAmp_mods.html

treitz3

Thanks Joe, I had forgotten about those as a possible choice since I have limited experience with them. If you do decide to go Adcom, check out this thread.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97185

quadzilla

tonyb wrote: »

Respectfully disagree with your statements also. A 40 watt tube amp can very well out perform a 250 watt SS amp. Then again,if all your interested in low bass,not quality bass, shrill highs,and listening fatigue, then a pro amp is up your alley. I guess we all have our own opinions on what quality sound actually sounds like. If that floats your boat,then rock on, but for me,a pro amp in the home environment is about as far from quality sound as a KIller whale is to a goldfish. Thats just me though, and my .02. Carry on..

Funny, I get none of that. What I do get is some of the clearest, most articulated sound that I've ever heard on a sub 5K system. This opinion is shared by all those who've listened to my set up.

So denigrate away, as you seem wont to do. But I think you need to hear a system that was properly set up and running pro amps to reach a viable conclusion.

concealer404

nguyendot wrote: »

What does Denon have that can come even close to the level of power discussed in this thread?

POA-6600/8000. There's some decent Denon amps out there.

That said, i'm not real sure that the post you quoted had much bearing here....