Why Do We Feel the Need to Butcher Tracks?
Cpyder
Posts: 514
Here is a picture comparing the waveforms from Michael Jackson's song "Bad" as it was recorded on his 1987 original release and the 2001 special edition release. (2001 release on top) Apparently "special edition" means that they increase the loudness of the entire track to the point where they remove any hope of a well-adjusted dynamic range and also attempt to produce hideous clipping of the signal. I never really noticed until recently how unlisteneable the special edition is compared to the original. Even if you can ignore the clipping, the fact that all the instruments are the same loudness causes me listener fatigue in no time flat. Why do people put up with this? And why do record companies love destroying good music? I know everybody is doing it and if you don't, then when your song comes on the radio, it will sound wimpy and too quiet... or whatever. I don't really care. I just want my music to be mixed properly. What can we do?
And here's some further reading on the "Loudness War." http://turnmeup.org/ Does anyone know if any artists are using the TurnMeUp certification?
And here's some further reading on the "Loudness War." http://turnmeup.org/ Does anyone know if any artists are using the TurnMeUp certification?
Post edited by Cpyder on
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And I couldn't even match up the two tracks properly because the 2001 release doesn't even resemble the original release.
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Ouch, that sucks. I wonder the same thing too.
How do I tell if my copy is the "SE"? I don't think I've heard clipping on mine. Mine is on the HIStory compilation. -
I use Audacity (free) to view the waveform and zoom in on areas of interest. Looking at the waveform for "Bad" from the HIStory Past, Present and Future album: The recording is definitely "louder" than the 1987 release but I don't see any blatant clipping, so that's a good thing.
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"Major" record companies don't give a flying rat's arse about sound quality. To quote Randy Newman: "It's money that they love."THE MAN-CAVE 5.1 CHANNEL A/V RIG
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"Major" record companies don't give a flying rat's arse about sound quality. To quote Randy Newman: "It's money that they love."
Yes indeed! The louder it sounds on the radio the more copies of the music they're going to sell. Bummer for us critical listeners and music lovers. -
I have wondered if part of the reason they squash the music is to compensate for the high background noise levels when people listen on mobile and personal systems. I can understand their motivation there, but I still disagree with the solution. Why not leave the music alone and incorporate compression circuits on mobile and personal playback gear?THE MAN-CAVE 5.1 CHANNEL A/V RIG
Sony KDS-60A3000
a/d/s/ HT-400LCR (3)
a/d/s/ HT-300 (2)
Velodyne DLS-4000R (2)
Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi
Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai
Sony BDP-S300
Sony SLV-779HF
DirecTV HD sat. receiver
MAN-CAVE 2-CHANNEL RIG (shares sources with a/v system)
Adcom GFA-5500
Bose 901 Series VI
NAD C-165BEE
Slim Devices Squeezebox Classic
TEAC CD-RW890
Technics SL-BD20D w/ Audio-Technica P34
Akai HX-A3X -
I have wondered if part of the reason they squash the music is to compensate for the high background noise levels when people listen on mobile and personal systems. I can understand their motivation there, but I still disagree with the solution. Why not leave the music alone and incorporate compression circuits on mobile and personal playback gear?
That's a good point. You wouldn't hear half of the quiet notes while driving down the road unless your car is sound treated. -
What they are doing to music today, it's no reason why I like the 70's mix of music from FM Sunny 105 in Orlando.
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I have wondered if part of the reason they squash the music is to compensate for the high background noise levels when people listen on mobile and personal systems. I can understand their motivation there, but I still disagree with the solution. Why not leave the music alone and incorporate compression circuits on mobile and personal playback gear?That's a good point. You wouldn't hear half of the quiet notes while driving down the road unless your car is sound treated.
I really and truly doubt that this is their concern. It's about, "show me the money." I don't think they give one iota of thought about how it sounds because if they did, they wouldn't compress the music at all.
My son gave me a four LP box set of Stadium Arcadium by Red Hot Chile Peppers for Christamas. Great, great music but is so compressed that it sounds like pure poopoo and is hard to enjoy. -
I have three copies of Jethro Tull's "Benefit" LPs. They were made way back when. Two are compressed, one isn't. Still am scratching my head over this one.
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hearingimpared wrote: »I really and truly doubt that this is their concern. It's about, "show me the money." I don't think they give one iota of thought about how it sounds because if they did, they wouldn't compress the music at all.
My son gave me a four LP box set of Stadium Arcadium by Red Hot Chile Peppers for Christamas. Great, great music but is so compressed that it sounds like pure shite and is hard to enjoy.
Stadium Arcadium has been criticized by a lot of people for being overly compressed. Makes me sad because they are one of my favorite bands. -
Stadium Arcadium has been criticized by a lot of people for being overly compressed. Makes me sad because they are one of my favorite bands.
Yep, it's really sad and the worse part is unless the original master isn't compressed that music will be forever tainted. -
hearingimpared wrote: »Yep, it's really sad and the worse part is unless the original master isn't compressed that music will be forever tainted.
They'd have to have an epically stupid engineer to compress the masters, but you never know. Typically the "loudness war" compression happens at the down-mix stage, but occasionally someone will compress the hell out of the live original tracks. With modern digital recording, the proper way to record the track is with the widest possible dynamics, then add the compression in later (unless you're looking for a particular sound and know that you're never going to want those dynamics back). The original track doesn't get overwritten- and even if you don't save it there something like 100 layers of undo.Gallo Ref 3.1 : Bryston 4b SST : Musical fidelity CD Pre : VPI HW-19
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They'd have to have an epically stupid engineer to compress the masters, but you never know. Typically the "loudness war" compression happens at the down-mix stage, but occasionally someone will compress the hell out of the live original tracks. With modern digital recording, the proper way to record the track is with the widest possible dynamics, then add the compression in later (unless you're looking for a particular sound and know that you're never going to want those dynamics back). The original track doesn't get overwritten- and even if you don't save it there something like 100 layers of undo.
You got that right Bro! -
And they wonder why the sales are falling.
I won't even let my kids use any of my original CD's because I know to replace the ones i bought 25yrs ago with a Re-issue won't even sound the same. I will burn a CD-r for the kids to use. The few i did buy for the kids they even noticed that they (new CD) didn't even sound the same so if the Ipod gen. can tell the dif between the two you know it's bad....
