PSW202 mods

rs159
rs159 Posts: 1,027
edited May 2003 in Speakers
Can anyone think of mods to do to a PSW202 to extend response and tighten up the sound? I only want to tweak, not rebuild, so new amps or drivers are out of the question. So far I can only think of a flared port. There's already stuffing in the box.
Post edited by rs159 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Maybe external crossovers to keep the midrange/upper bass out? I noticed there is signifigant leakage of midrange and upper bass and around 180hz or so is the stated limit of the sub, so it's got to be mudddy and all have sorts of nasties.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2003
    RS - I installed some real nice spikes on mine, and it helped tighten the bass up. Nothing extraordinary, but they look real good.

    I have some pics I can email you of the install if you would like them.

    Here is where I purchased them:

    www.oregondv.com
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    (Hitting self on head) - of course, spikes!

    pics, please - rs159@earthlink.net


    ok, I've got:
    -Flared ports (they're allready flared, but not by much)
    -spikes
    -experiment with stuffing density and type
    -what else guys?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited May 2003
    I think that spikes are about all that you'd want to do with the 202. Worse case, if you do try to flare the ports any bigger and you break it, you can always pick up another one for $99.
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    How *exactly* does one go about flaring (and inherently lengthening) ports? I know that is a stupid question but like step by step, how is it done?, down to what kind of glue to use and everything.

    I like the idea of taking a mediocre bass box and trying to turn it into as much of a sub as I can with just simple mods and not rebuilding the entire mother lovin' thing. Just spikes won't do it for me :lol:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited May 2003
    Originally posted by rs159
    I like the idea of taking a mediocre bass box and trying to turn it into as much of a sub as I can with just simple mods and not rebuilding the entire mother lovin' thing. Just spikes won't do it for me :lol:

    I'm not the one to ask about the flaring thing. Doc is gonna be your man on that one.

    Don't underestimate the power of the spike. If you have'nt done so with your mains, do it if they're capable of being spiked. Technically, I think that it betters the bass sounds from directly delivered instead of the floor absorbing the majority of it. All I know is that it made a BIG difference back when I hooked mine up 6 years ago and I won't go back.
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    where is doc, anyway?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Why don't the polks come with spikes? Would there be too many injuries at CC or something?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2003
    I agree with spikes, and a good, heavy slate under the sub. Along with the slate, you can even add weight on top of the sub, to further 'deaden' it. A 10-15 lb weight on a mousepad works wonders.

    The other most noticeable improvement in sound quality I would suggest, without breaking the bank, is upgrading the caps in the output stage of the plate amp.

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    I was going to say something about a piece of slate under it, but I had visions of the thing walking away. Extra weight and maybe drilling some indents about 1/16" thick in the slate to keep it in place is what I can think of.

    Better caps I will consider. How simple is it to replace, just remove the old and solder in the new ones or is it more involved? What caps are good, BTW?

    My plan is to use two PSW202s close to the mains (bookshelves) to hit to around 50 or 60hz. After around 50 or 60hz there would be two SVS cylinder subs (exact models undecided as of now) in the corners for the real deep stuff. I know the midbass wouldn't be as refined as some other speakers/subs, but the PSW202 is what, $200, and that's at CC. RTi38's - we'll say $200. $400 - now find me a new $400 tower than can hit to 40hz and sound good doing it across all the ranges ("ricer" speakers like the CC MTX towers don't cut it here, they don't sound too well above 150hz) (remember that that was for one speaker, the real cost would be 800) Along with a nearly full range "powered tower", you can upgrade either the bookshelves or the subs without buying whole new speakers, so thats one up on powered towers. The subs and the mids/tweets are in separate boxes, so whatever effect all the bass would have on the mids/highs is no longer a problem.

    In short, the way I see it, it is technically superior to powered and passive full range towers.


    I still wonder about retuning the thing. I'm disrespecting all of my audio stuff by puting it in a 11X10X8 bedroom, so I can't really comment on the frequency response, but just from experience with subs in the lower price ranges, alot have a midbass bump in the response. Maybe it sounds more impressive to the average Joe who doesn't even know what deep bass is, maybe it makes people think the lower powered amps and are bigger than the are; whatever it is if it exists in the 202 (which I will find out when I'm moving the stuff; I maybe will take it outside and get the real response), I might consider that too.

    Even if it doesn't have the midbass bump, sometimes there is a ton of port noise when it's playing loud and/or deep. The best thing for that would be a bigger and/or more port(s), but that would mean cutting a bigger hole (which I really don't want to do) and the port(s) would probably stick out about 2 feet from the back (can you say "ugly?)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    The more I think about it, it would be better IMO to get some used SDA, a better amp, and one or two SVS's of the 16-39 variety to hit down low (althought DIY is not -totally- out of the question, it's the last resort for a bottomfeeder on a budget). Better bass, better amp, better phase coherency (subs not 2 feet from the mids), and to finish the deal - SDA (do I have to say more?)

    I still think if powered towers are your fancy then bookshelves and small subs are the way to go. Just for **** and giggles, you could get really short stands and put the mains on top the subs. I wouldn't do it, but if it has to be "woman friendly", it works. That would get you some real nice "ghetto" powered towers. Remember my example in my last post? Well compare that to the RTi100's - hmm.... bigger amps, bigger subs (not to say bigger is better but 6.5" is a stretch), and upgradability. For $200 less. Do I have to say the obvious?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Am I talking to myself? Not trying to be egotistic, but really...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,624
    edited May 2003
    Originally posted by rs159
    Am I talking to myself? Not trying to be egotistic, but really...

    I got the impression that you had decided what you were going to do........no?
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited May 2003
    Get some LSI 7, and some BOTL SVS, thats taller than a tower...:p
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Originally posted by brettw22


    I got the impression that you had decided what you were going to do........no?

    I was just looking for a simple "sounds like a plan" kind of thing. Just to see what others thought before I went replacing caps and installing spikes and stuff.

    There was also this:
    Better caps I will consider. How simple is it to replace, just remove the old and solder in the new ones or is it more involved? What caps are good, BTW?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
    Get some LSI 7, and some BOTL SVS, thats taller than a tower...:p

    You're right, that would probably kick the LSi powered towers' asses and steal their girlfriends. I just wonder how a 16 hz tone would affect the mids and highs. Some people actually experiece walking subs, hmmm....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited May 2003
    BOTL SVS, only hits down to 25hz...moe-ron!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited May 2003
    RS - Bear with me, my floppy cable is bad, so the drive isn't 100%. I will email you those pics, I havnt forgotten. I will do it from work tomorrow.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
    BOTL SVS, only hits down to 25hz...moe-ron!

    I thought you ment BOTL *series*, not BOTL overall...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,741
    edited May 2003
    hmmm......u could always get sean to plug da ports...prolly go down to 20hz?????
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited May 2003
    RS one tweek I did to both of my subs which was free was put them on a price of 3/4 - 1" slate. Got it at the local stone supplier. Asked to buy 2 peices & they let me pick my piece & size than gave it to me. They said it was extras or miss matches, I didnt care once under the sub you cant see them. Before the base sounded flat, I guess it was being absorbed by the carpet.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • burdette
    burdette Posts: 1,194
    edited May 2003
    I had a couple of comments on your original question of playing around with a 202.. then you mentioned buying an SVS (or 2?) and to me that is an entirely different train of thought. Never occured to me you were still thinking about the 202.

    As for redoing the ports.. you can buy very inexpensive flared ends at PE and fit them to PVC pipe. You *could* experiment with different lengths and diameters of ports, if the sub allowed you to disassemble it in a way that wouldn't destroy it.

    Exactly how much "stuffing" is inside that ported box? Is it just wadded in there or attached to the walls (which ones??)?

    Ya know.. I can sort of understand the type of tweaking like replacing old drivers with newer, etc.. but I find it hard to understand tweaking things like ports or stuffing in a sealed box. I would think the Polk engineers tweaked the best performance out of the system they could. After all, they know *ALL* the specs for the system including self-measured T/S parameters for the driver, etc. And I know from experience that you are highly unlikely to get specific driver parameters from Polk.

    Short of a different box... port diameter, length and number are about all you have to fiddle with in terms of the physics of the driver and its enclosure. You always have electrical options like a different crossover frequency, amp, caps, etc. Some of those would be of dubious benefit, especially with a driver/amp at this price point. IMO.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited May 2003
    Originally posted by burdette
    Exactly how much "stuffing" is inside that ported box? Is it just wadded in there or attached to the walls (which ones??)?
    but I find it hard to understand tweaking things like ports or stuffing in a sealed box.

    I have played around with stuffing the box and the ports with polyfill for mixed results. (It is not a sealed box btw)

    Here is a picture when I opened my PSW202 up.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2003
    Wow, there is hardly ANY fill inside there. Look at all the bare wood for that back wave to bounce around on!!!

    Looks to me like some fill, and some eggcrate on the walls might actually make an audible difference here.

    Thanks for the pic shack.

    I also would like to know 'you guys' thoughts on having the amp on/in the box? We tend to isolate our 'regular' amps, yet we throw our sub amps right on/in the box?

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited May 2003
    where are the big blue bad **** caps... I ask! ;)

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited May 2003
    RS:

    I was a little late getting into this thread. You strike me as one who like to tinker and experiment, and that's perfectly fine.

    But trying to modify a PSW202 for better/deeper/stronger bass is like trying to modify a Chevy Cavalier for drag racing. The basic platform and structure simply isn't there upon which to build. You just can't get blood from a turnip.

    You will see a small or no return on your time and money investment with any mods or tinkering you do to the 202's. If you are simply messing with them for the heck of it, then by all means experiment and have fun.

    But if you are looking for a serious approach to high performance bass, I would eliminate the 202's completely from the loop. The idea of using them as a mid bass transition speaker to a larger sub is overly complex and would be difficult to get to sound right. There is no reason at all why you can't simplify and run just your mains and a single high peformance sub.

    Just my 2 cents and again - if you are tinkering for the fun of it, carry on!

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    ...You will see a small or no return on your time and money investment with any mods or tinkering you do to the 202's. If you are simply messing with them for the heck of it, then by all means experiment and have fun. ...

    Doc

    Which was kind of my spirit from the start. I know you can't get a Piper Cub to break the sound barier. Piper Cubs can be fun little planes for the casual Sunday afternoon aviator, but I would never go into war in one.

    I was going to see what I could make it be just for **** and giggles. At < $200, there's bound to be some compromises you could undo (look at the stuffing), and I was thinking of using it for a rear sub or a computer room sub or something like that.
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    [B... The idea of using them as a mid bass transition speaker to a larger sub is overly complex and would be difficult to get to sound right. There is no reason at all why you can't simplify and run just your mains and a single high peformance sub. ...
    Doc [/B]

    Which I thought about for about 30 seconds and eliminated that idea in the post directly after the one I stated that plan in.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited May 2003
    Dude, I would look at caps, and fill, and the port.

    Won't cost *that* much, and you might have a great tweek to share to make the 202 a little more 'tuneful' if you will.

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited May 2003
    Ok then.

    BTW, Russ, I said there was allready stuff in there, but the only time I was inside there was when I was behind the dresser (low light) taking off the amp. My main concern was the amp, so I didn't pay much attention to the fill. I did notice, however, that the port is a little more than 1" from the basket. Hmm...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter