Fantastic Sound

Mike Kozak
Mike Kozak Posts: 931
edited March 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
I have my new Monitor 70s hooked up to my vintage Technics SA-600 Receiver and it sounds great! Why (I ay have asked this in the past) does it deliver so much more than my Onkyo (new, 7.1 channel) receiver? Really, I do not even need the subwoofer hooked up, the sound is that good. Plus it will play ALOT louder than than the Onk. I have it on 9:00 now and it is plenty loud, might crank it up now since my neighbor had to leave for a while!!! Whoo hoo!!!
Post edited by Mike Kozak on
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  • wayne3burk
    wayne3burk Posts: 939
    edited February 2010
    Probably because 2-channel stereo receivers were designed to reproduce music -- and 7.1 HT Systems are designed to reproduce Movie experience.... maybe
    Yamaha RX-V2700, EMI 711As (front), RCA K-16 (rear), Magnavox Console (Center & TV Stand), Sony SMP-N200 media streamer, Dual 1249 TT =--- Sharp Aquas 60" LCD tellie
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  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited February 2010
    Likely has to do with lower current in the Onkyo- all watts are not created equal.

    See this: http://www.polkaudio.com/education/article.php?id=4
    Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels
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  • Mike Kozak
    Mike Kozak Posts: 931
    edited February 2010
    Thanks, that helps explain the difference. The Technics rating is 70 WPC at .0.04@ thd, pretty low for an antique!!! It just plain rocks!! I am listening to a wall of sound right now!!
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  • wayne3burk
    wayne3burk Posts: 939
    edited February 2010
    Cool
    Yamaha RX-V2700, EMI 711As (front), RCA K-16 (rear), Magnavox Console (Center & TV Stand), Sony SMP-N200 media streamer, Dual 1249 TT =--- Sharp Aquas 60" LCD tellie
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  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited February 2010
    Awesome - enjoy and bust out your whole audio library. What's old is new again!
    Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels
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  • Mike Kozak
    Mike Kozak Posts: 931
    edited February 2010
    I think I have lumber right now! Is that bad???
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  • Mike Kozak
    Mike Kozak Posts: 931
    edited February 2010
    amazing how such a small thing like music can make your day
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited February 2010
    Mike Kozak wrote: »
    Thanks, that helps explain the difference. The Technics rating is 70 WPC at .0.04@ thd, pretty low for an antique!!! It just plain rocks!! I am listening to a wall of sound right now!!

    Older models were more accurate in their watt ratings also. I forgot what 7.1 receiver I was researching,but it was rated at 110 watts per/ all channels driven. That is untill the reviewer bench tested it,all channels driven came to 40 watts per. I still don't know how they get away with this. Some deliver the watts in 2 channel,then it drops at 5 channel, and falls off a cliff at 7 channels. Do your research before laying out the coin.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited March 2010
    tonyb wrote: »
    Older models were more accurate in their watt ratings also. I forgot what 7.1 receiver I was researching,but it was rated at 110 watts per/ all channels driven. That is untill the reviewer bench tested it,all channels driven came to 40 watts per. I still don't know how they get away with this. Some deliver the watts in 2 channel,then it drops at 5 channel, and falls off a cliff at 7 channels. Do your research before laying out the coin.

    Back in the dark days of 2 channel, the rating system was horrible.
    Standards came along with a rating system that meant both channels
    had to hold that power level for an extended time, or it had to be tagged
    as thus. Enter multichannel. They are no longer required to follow the standard.
    That means if it hits a 100 watts and catches fire, it still can be claimed as
    100wpc. And car amps are even worse. It's time for someone to push
    real ratings on multichannel. They get away with it because there is no law or
    enough consumer push back to make it happen.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • Mike Kozak
    Mike Kozak Posts: 931
    edited March 2010
    All I know is the 1978-79 receiver makes my Onkyo sound like a little baby, squeeking for some milk!!!
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2010
    Just because that Technics is really loud at a 9:00 volume position, doesn't mean it will really go louder than the Onkyo. Vintage receivers were designed to play back sources that were much quieter than the outputs from current CD players. You end up only using a small portion of the volume control.

    A modern AV receiver has much finer volume adjustment and is designed to use most of it to take advantage of a wide variety of inputs. My Onkyo will easily hit 110dB when I take it far enough, but that's going past the - range and getting to + on the volume control.

    Its really just comparing apple to oranges.

    Volume levels aside, its not uncommon for older receivers to sound better with music because there is a pure analog path through the receiver. Modern AV receivers operate mostly in a digital world. Analog inputs get converted to digital, manipulated by the DSP, then sent back out through a set of DACs and sent to the amp section. All this manipulation can really affect the nuances of the music.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2010
    Mike Kozak wrote: »
    I have my new Monitor 70s hooked up to my vintage Technics SA-600 Receiver and it sounds great! Why (I ay have asked this in the past) does it deliver so much more than my Onkyo (new, 7.1 channel) receiver? Really, I do not even need the subwoofer hooked up, the sound is that good. Plus it will play ALOT louder than than the Onk. I have it on 9:00 now and it is plenty loud, might crank it up now since my neighbor had to leave for a while!!! Whoo hoo!!!

    I have an old Kenwood that will drive 4 ohm loads very well--it's much heavier than Kenwoods Digital AVRs were before the bailed out of the business and went on to auto only audio.

    For comparisions sake...what kind of Onkyo do you have....because some of the higher end Onkyos...as billbillw.. points out are pretty beefy for AVRs....and can put out their legitimate power ratings in 8 ohms?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2010
    cnh wrote: »
    I have an old Kenwood that will drive 4 ohm loads very well--it's much heavier than Kenwoods Digital AVRs were before the bailed out of the business and went on to auto only audio.

    For comparisions sake...what kind of Onkyo do you have....because some of the higher end Onkyos...as billbillw.. points out are pretty beefy for AVRs....and can put out their legitimate power ratings in 8 ohms?

    cnh

    Yeah, my 805 actually exceeds rated power with only 2 channels driven.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited March 2010
    Ive noticed the same thing with my old Allied reciever and my Baby Advent II's, they sound so much better than my H/T for music, I really enjoy listening to music with that simple set-up.
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
    Mirage PS-12
    LG BDP-550
    Motorola HD FIOS DVR
    Panasonic 42" Plasma
    XBOX 360[/SIZE]

    Office stuff

    Allied 395 receiver
    Pioneer CDP PD-M430
    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
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  • Mike Kozak
    Mike Kozak Posts: 931
    edited March 2010
    My Onkyo is only a TX 507, 75 WPC 7.1. I have to crank it up all the way to even get some decent volume out if it. Works great for home theater though!!
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  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited March 2010
    Mike Kozak wrote: »
    My Onkyo is only a TX 507, 75 WPC 7.1. I have to crank it up all the way to even get some decent volume out if it. Works great for home theater though!!

    I know what you mean.....Im very pleased with my H/T set-up.
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
    Mirage PS-12
    LG BDP-550
    Motorola HD FIOS DVR
    Panasonic 42" Plasma
    XBOX 360[/SIZE]

    Office stuff

    Allied 395 receiver
    Pioneer CDP PD-M430
    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    edited March 2010
    I though i heard a rubling noise on this side of the lake, Mike. Good on ya! Keep throwin some sound across the sound !
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