Let's speak Tuna

disneyjoe7

Tuna bad, smells bad, sounds not so good.


Ok doesn't really smell bad, but does sound like ****. So if my Pioneer Elite 84 sounds like ****, as if the sound field isn't as wide and sounds if I placed cotton in my ears. I like the sound of my Marantz 2238B receiver as its everything the Pioneer isn't. But I heard Sansui rules in the tuna world, and I needed one. So I get one a Sansui TU-717 and it sounds like the Pioneer Elite maybe just a hair better but still like ****.

So is my Sansui broke? or do they sound laid back at best?

billbillw

I feel like a broken record here, but I think you know what it needs: An alignment service at the very minimum. I'm sure it could also benefit from new PS caps, newer regulators, modern filters, and some upgrades in the output section.

Not broken, but in need of a service. I've had Mike (RadioX) align 4 tuners for me so far (family discount;) ) and the difference is VERY noticeable, even on a 15 year old digital tuner. I'm not saying to send your AV receiver to him, but the Sansui definitely would benefit from an alignment and other mods.

disneyjoe7

Well I purchased the Sansui TU-717 because I felt it would rule over the Marantz 2238B receiver, I didn't feel I should put $100 bucks into it if it wasn't a rule. But now I just confused and feel everything should be swimming in the pool right now.

What to do put money into the Marantz 2238B receiver?

Or put money into Sansui TU-717 it rules it should be better then the Marantz! Just I'm F up!

billbillw

I'm pretty certain the Sansui Tuner would absolutely rule that Marantz receiver if it were aligned/serviced. Call Mike and see what he thinks. He has had quite a bit of experience with Marantz receivers (including some of his own personal stuff). There were a few TOL Marantz receiver that had pretty serious tuners, but I don't think yours is one of those.

Tuners are very difficult to compare in an un-aligned state because you have no idea how far out of spec they are. When it comes down to it, a tuner guru can make even a mediocre tuner sound pretty damn good and a higher end model sound fantastic.

If you were closer, I'd let you hear my fully modded Sony ST-S500ES. It was a mid-line Sony digital tuner that I picked up for next to nothing and sent to Mike (RadioX). He replaced the PS caps, regulators, tuning filters, coupling caps, and some other stuff. He burned it in and did an alignment and it sounds very very good for not much more than than $100 invested. Mike has worked on a few of the 550ES and he prefers the sound to the much lauded (and more expensive) Sony ST-S730ES tuner.

Tuners are somewhat addictive because there are so many out there, so many opinions, and (if you are patient), so many good deals. Its hard not to try out a few before you settle. I went through about 5 or 6 before I settled (somewhat) on my current Sony (which is actually boxed up right now). I also have a nice Onkyo T-4087 just sitting out in the garage and I'm debating whether to send it to Mike or not. It works very well already, but I think it could really shine with some mods and an alignment.

mhardy6647

My Sansui TU-717 lives in the basement. It's a meh sounding piece of hardware with good RF performance.



This is what lives in the real hifi upstairs. It sounds great (and, yes, it is mono... and that's fine with me).



There are far better tuners, but for the $ the Sherwoods are hard if not impossible to beat. If you feel like you must have stereo, buy one of the later ones or use an outboard MPX decoder (vintage or modern/DIY). ALL tuners (vintage or modern analog) will perform better (s/n, sensitivity, THD and frequency response) in mono than stereo.

Plan B: buy one of these.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/538001-REG/Sony_XDRF1HD_XDR_F1HD_HD_Radio_Receiver.html
Rave reviews, even stock. Supposed to be the bee's knees with some tweaks.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tuner/messages/1/11109.html


N.B. RadioX (Mike) is very good. He did the RF work on my Fisher 500C. He can do your Sony HD tuner for you, too!

danger boy

wow.. there must be something wrong with the tuner..... those Sansui's are suppose to be the bomb.

disneyjoe7

danger boy wrote: »

wow.. there must be something wrong with the tuner..... those Sansui's are suppose to be the bomb.

If that's the case it's DEAD :eek:


Tomorrow if not too cold, I blow it out with some compressed air, and clean any switches too see if any better. But in the end I'm sure Mike will get this to tune up some.

Jetmaker737

Since we're on the subject... I've got a hankerin' to get one of those '70's vintage analog tuners with the glass face and lighted meters, etc. Need one with a heavy spinning knob and prefer silver face. Any suggestions?

billbillw

Jetmaker737 wrote: »

Since we're on the subject... I've got a hankerin' to get one of those '70's vintage analog tuners with the glass face and lighted meters, etc. Need one with a heavy spinning knob and prefer silver face. Any suggestions?

Suggestion is to go to FMtunerinfo and start reading. There are probably 50-100 tuners that would fit your bill. The good thing is, most companies were producing pretty solid stuff back then. The bad thing is, you will probably need to have it worked on to get the best performance (as has been said above)

mhardy6647

Jetmaker737 wrote: »

Since we're on the subject... I've got a hankerin' to get one of those '70's vintage analog tuners with the glass face and lighted meters, etc. Need one with a heavy spinning knob and prefer silver face. Any suggestions?

Kenwood KT-8300 or KT-7300 are very good performers.
Pioneer TX-9500II was pretty nice, too.
The best Sansuis are good (the TU-717 mentioned earlier is at the bottom of the 'best Sansui' list).
All of the above are pricey.
Nikko made some excellent tuners.

Take FMtunerinfo with a grain of salt, and realize that anything they recommend highly has commensurately escalated in price. Generally FMtunerinfo's recommendations reflect the radio performance more strongly than the audio performance of the tuners they review.

billbillw

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Take FMtunerinfo with a grain of salt, and realize that anything they recommend highly has commensurately escalated in price. Generally FMtunerinfo's recommendations reflect the radio performance more strongly than the audio performance of the tuners they review.

Somewhat true, but I do feel they are looking at the audio performance equally with the tuning ability. In the top ranks, the audio performance is the only thing that separates them.

The biggest thing to consider (and it is mentioned in some of the comparison reviews) is that all the tuners they are looking at are in a pre-aligned state. So there is great variability in how close to spec a particular tuner is. Just about any decently spec'd vintage tuner can be made to sound excellent once aligned and upgraded with newer filters and caps.

Hillbilly61

I think fmtunerinfo.com tries to balance reception related capabilities verses sound reproduction. The individual reviews from the many contributors are heavily into to reception related issues. However, if you go to their tuner shootout page, it is almost totally dedicated to the unit's musicality. See http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/shootouts.html#4155

mhardy6647

... and, as has been pointed out by several folks previously, any thirty-year-old tuner is almost certain to need at least touch-up alignment.

seeclear

Did/Does NAD make tunas? I have a tuner/pre by NAD and it sounds good and pulls in stations very well here in the mountains.

mhardy6647

Yes, and some pretty decent ones as well.
The tuner sections in vintage NAD receivers (also vintage Sherwood solid state receivers of the 1970s) were quite respectable, too.

disneyjoe7

Thinking now dangerous I know, but....

Could it be the Marantz receiver doesn't have a lot of hours on it? Could it be the caps aren't too worn out making this sound better? So do caps where wear out due to age or it's time being worked?

mhardy6647

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

...So do caps where wear out due to age or it's time being worked?

Yes :-)

Age will harm electrolytic capacitors especially. Tanatalum caps have a finite lifespan. Vintage paper and oil caps are often bad at this late date. Many film-type capacitors can last for decades.

disneyjoe7

So if caps die due to age only, I'm still confused on why I like the sound / openest of Marantz over the Sansui. I'm thinking the Marantz may have 3 to 5k hours total on it.

mhardy6647

Age and use ('specially high voltage caps); other components age too (e.g., carbon composition resistors drift off-value).

skipf

Try a Carver TX-11a. Mine sounds great.

disneyjoe7

I'm thinking of having this done to the Sansui by Mike at RadioXTuners.

Extreme alignment, with matched filters and adder board. Upgrade the power supply with huge caps and fast diodes. Then some upgrade some select filter caps and audio coupling caps. It will sound and perform first rate.

Question will I love this Sansui then, it will be open / musical like the Marantz and not have a hiss. Or is this bad money after bad money?

concealer404

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I'm thinking of having this done to the Sansui by Mike at RadioXTuners.




Question will I love this Sansui then, it will be open / musical like the Marantz and not have a hiss. Or is this bad money after bad money?

I think you'll love the Sansui then. I have the little brother to your tuna, and it sounds pretty damn good to my ears, and it hasn't even been really gone through yet. HB27 cleaned it up, but we didn't replace anything.

billbillw

Unless you have a particular fancy to the sonic signature of vintage Marantz gear, you should be very happy with the Sansui in modded/aligned form. Not sure if you need the whole works or just some basic upgrades. That's up to you.

However, If, for some reason, you are stuck on Marantz sound, you might only be happy with a Marantz tuner that has been restored/aligned, etc.

Sound preference is obviously subjective, so I can't really tell you if that is the right path or not.

disneyjoe7

The crap sounding Sansui has been sent to Mike at RadioXTuners so he can do his magic with it.

billbillw

I doubt you will ever refer to your 717 so disrespectfully after you hear it when Mike is done.

disneyjoe7

Ok I'm looking forward to it

Jetmaker737

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

The crap sounding Sansui has been sent to Mike at RadioXTuners so he can do his magic with it.

Please report in when you get it back! I'm very interested to hear how the TU-717 works out for you.

disneyjoe7

Jet, not a problem look forward to see if I like Sansui tuna I heard it's good, the one too own, I see how I like it.


Sal, I sure you could cook a mean Tuna for sure dud.

Jetmaker737

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

The crap sounding Sansui has been sent to Mike at RadioXTuners so he can do his magic with it.

Do you mind telling what he's doing to it and what he's charging you for it? :cool:

disneyjoe7

Quote from Mike a RadioXtuners.


"I can do the extreme alignment, with matched filters and
adder board. Upgrade the power supply with huge caps and fast diodes. Then
some upgrade some select filter caps and audio coupling caps. It will sound
and perform first rate."

Seems like a really sweet update, I don't wish to tell you what it will cost as I haven't got it back yet but his price seems fair.

Jetmaker737

That does sound sweet!

I bought a TU-717 a couple of days ago on ebay. I'm gonna want to get it serviced someplace. I'll be interested in your results!