Polk 2B TL vs. Original Carver Amazings

Big Dawg
Big Dawg Posts: 2,005
edited March 2010 in Vintage Speakers
I have an opportunity to buy a pair of Original Carver Amazings for about what I paid for my 2B TLs. Assuming I could sell the 2Bs to fund the Carvers, should I?

I've never heard the Original Amazings, but I did listen to GG's superb Platinums, and was blown away. I'm very interested in hearing any and all opinions.

Thanks for your input,

Dawg
Post edited by Big Dawg on
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Comments

  • OldmanSRS
    OldmanSRS Posts: 419
    edited February 2010
    I auditioned them back in 1988 next to the SDA SRS. The Carvers sounded accurate and open but lacked the SDA effect and the strong bass of the Polks. They also require a LOT more power to rip with an efficiency around 87 dB. I remember they were driven by the 1.5T and they did sound good.
    '65 427 Shelby Cobra
    '72 Triumph TR-6
    __________________
    '88 Polk SDA SRS 1.2, with upgraded XO caps and Erse SDA inductors
    '86 Polk SDA CRS+
    '84 Polk Monitor 10A (Peerless tweeters)
    '05 HSU VTF-3 Sub (Original OEM)
    '20 HSU VTF-3 Sub (three more, 100% cloned)
    '93 Carver TFM-35
    '88 Carver M-1.0t
    '88 Adcom GFT-555
    '88 Adcom GFP-555
    '88 Adcom GFA-555 (upgraded/restored)
    '88 Adcom GFA-555 (a second one upgraded/restored)
    '05 Onkyo DV-555 media
    '89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix
    '89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix, internal surround amp bridged to drive only a center channel
    '91 Kenwood Basic M1D Amp
    '89 Pioneer Laser Disc media
    '89 Sony SuperBeta HiFi media
    One PGA2310 based custom built remote volume control
    Four Polk T-15's
    Four Polk TSi-200's
    Four Polk TSi-100's
    Two Polk CS-10's
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2010
    If you are considering the Original Amazings,I would suggest that you have the amplification to properly power them.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited February 2010
    george daniel wrote: »
    If you are considering the Original Amazings,I would suggest that you have the amplification to properly power them.

    ...x100.

    To truly appreciate them, I'd recommend 1,000 watts in reserve~ :eek:
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,606
    edited February 2010
    Wow!

    naked.jpg
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited February 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    ...x100.

    To truly appreciate them, I'd recommend 1,000 watts in reserve~ :eek:

    ...and an amp that LIKES low R loads....
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2010
    2Bs vs. Amazings? Apples to oranges my friend IE: Not even close to being in the same league.

    As you've been informed though, just as with any of the big Polks, you'll benefit greatly by running the big Carvers with a good amount of high quality power.

    BTW: And yes if I must: I've owned the Carvers (great speakers) and out of two pairs of 2Bs I still have a pair in service (since '88).
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  • Big Dawg
    Big Dawg Posts: 2,005
    edited February 2010
    okay, all good input, thanks.

    So, here's where I stand. I was going to buy a Dynaco ST-70 and do some of the nice mods to it, hoping to use it with my 2Bs, but if that combo wasn't great, would instead put the Dynaco on my project 5Jr+ pair and leave the Carver M4.0T on the SDAs.

    If I make this change, I will sell the 2Bs, buy the Amazings, and possibly shop for a second M4.0T (or similar).

    I'm leaning towards going for the Dynaco as a fun project, since I am plenty happy with the 2Bs for now, and still hoping to one day pick up a pair of Platinums.

    Still interested in any comments, thoughts, insults, etc.

    If I opt to keep my SDAs, anyone want some Originals, since I seem to have an inside track on them for a very brief period?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,754
    edited February 2010
    Modded Dynaco, 2B TL's, game over.

    Forgot to add, if you're still running EL34's, replace them with 6CA7's. You can thank me later.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,217
    edited February 2010
    I just want to say it's nice to see Bob McG posting again and I saw BlueMDPicker posting recently as well :)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2010
    Hi Bob!
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2010
    Hi George, Brock & Jesse.

    Wow, what's happened in here? Things look so calm (not a bad thing). Didn't even ruffle a feather in "I can't BELIVE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!", with my teaser post. Oh well, I tried.

    Hey Jesse, what's this? You've re-developed/updated/upgraded yet another SDA model??? The 2Btl. (Gotta be you or Rafe.)

    I know, most likely real old news.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,754
    edited February 2010
    Hey Bob, hope life has been treating you well.

    It was discovered that the 2B's have the same crossover as the pin/blade CRS+, which Polk had developed a TL upgrade for in mid-1990. They were going to call it the 4.1TL, but as you know Polk ended SDA production a short time later. Anyway, the mod is easy to do, simply add a 5.8uF cap in the C5 position and change the tweeter to the RD0198-1. Of note, the bottom lead of the 5.8 cap has to go into the hole marked "H", the top lead goes into the top C5 hole next to R2. IMO, this is a major improvement.

    So, what have you been up to?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,091
    edited February 2010
    Bob!!

    Hope all is well with you and yours.....

    As to the original question....the CAs are a better speaker but you could spend the rest of your life (and the associated savings) trying to buy enough amp for them.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited February 2010
    I agree these speakers need some SERIOUS AMP's PERIOD. But saying that they sound ok with me with 200w or so with a Parasound Halo A23 amp, but I do think they may sound really sweet with Halo JC-1 amps also. Still trying save $$$ for those, maybe the rest of my life yes. :(

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2010
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    I agree these speakers need some SERIOUS AMP's PERIOD. But saying that they sound ok with me with 200w or so with a Parasound Halo A23 amp, but I do think they may sound really sweet with Halo JC-1 amps also. Still trying save $$$ for those, maybe the rest of my life yes. :(

    Steve,, Russ (hoosier21) has a pair of Monarchy 100 watt Class A mono's,that I'm currently listening to,,,but we had them on Jerrys' Amazings,,and IMHO, they did a very respectable job of driving them,,even compared to the 9T's,,,I think that it would be worth a listen,,and they are very affordable as well.Just my .02 worth.:)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2010
    To the op,, if you do end up with the Amazings,,I may know where a nice pair of 9t's may be hiding.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,842
    edited February 2010
    Bob! You ARE alive!

    The Amazings are alive and well! Still in my possession and finally getting a room they can breathe in to the tune of a 16 by 22 by 8 foot room! They have Carver Silver 7t's...yeah, I know, everybody tells me they aren't best because they don't have "big" power. But at 750 watts a piece, they have enough for my needs and they have that "tube amp" sound with the solid state power. I picked up an Adcom pre-amp for them and they sound spectacular on it!

    As far as the 2B's, I have a set of those too and modded or not, I don't think the 2B's compare. They are a great speaker, no doubt at all. But as good as the 2B's are, the Carvers are just heads and shoulders above the 2B.

    The nice thing about the 2B's is that they don't need big power at all. I've driven them, albeit not loud at all, with as little as 30 watts per channel. 50 watts or better is best and 30 watts or better from a tube amp is best.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • artinaz
    artinaz Posts: 185
    edited February 2010
    I have had the Amazings and the SDA-SRS II- both unmodified. I liked the Amazings much more. I thought the soundstage and clarity was much better on the Amazings.

    The cons however are-

    1. You need a lot of power as others have mentioned- together with the ability to go down do 4 ohms and lower

    2. These occupy a lot of space and you need to have teh room for them.

    Azi
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2010
    Hey Jes, Been up to my neck, er no, let me rephrase that, over my head in work with 50-60hrs a week (in 4 days and then that lovely 200 mile drive back home) being the norm, but that's a good thing. Who knows, maybe sometime I'll get my audio thing going again and upgrade both my CRSs and 2Bs for the heck and fun of it. I mainly have to make the time for it. I just have too many hobbies going on to squeeze into my spare time. I might just have to pick your brain before going ahead though.

    Hi Troy! Great to see you're still in here too. How are things? Am I to take it you're stateside?
    10-4 on the level of amps one would like to have for the big Carvers. Even buying used could break the bank. :eek:

    My scoop? Things are well with me for now I guess but I'd be lying if I said the same for my family. Going through a very troublesome time right now but I've come to learn that's the way it goes sometimes. We'll get through it.

    Yes! I'm ALIVE!!! It's good to hear you're still enjoying the Amazings John. Sounds like you have a fine listening room for them now too. Yup, give'em plenty of room and power and it's blast off! What the hey, Carver Silver 7t's? Sweet! Capable of doing the job and definitely amps you can take pride in owning. "...and they sound spectacular"... I believe it.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2010
    Injuns!
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  • Paden501
    Paden501 Posts: 286
    edited February 2010
    In my experience with hearing Amazing Plats (at vintage hifi) and my own 1Cs (modified xovers) I'd say that the Amazings are much more transparent. They are very articulate speakers and if you close your eyes, you forget that the speakers are in the room and instead feel like the vocalist is in your living room singing to you.

    What they don't have over the SDA's is the big sound-stage feel. While the music coming from the Amazings is very natural, it's still confined to the space between the speakers, whereas the SDAs make me feel like I'm at a concert, with sound all around me.

    Also I think my SDA's get lower and tighter bass than the amazings, which is surprising since I'm only powering my SDA's with a single TFM-24, whereas the Amazings I've heard were pushed by 1000 watts per channel!
    ~Matt
    My System

    Front L/R: Definitive BP10Bs
    Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As
    Preamp: B&K Reference 20
    CD: Jolida JD100a
    L/R Amp: Carver TFM-24
    Turntable: Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
    TV: Sony 52" XBR9
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2010
    George Grand wrote: »
    Injuns!

    Yup, That too Gman. :D
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,754
    edited February 2010
    BobMcG wrote: »
    Hey Jes, Been up to my neck, er no, let me rephrase that, over my head in work with 50-60hrs a week (in 4 days and then that lovely 200 mile drive back home) being the norm, but that's a good thing. Who knows, maybe sometime I'll get my audio thing going again and upgrade both my CRSs and 2Bs for the heck and fun of it. I mainly have to make the time for it. I just have too many hobbies going on to squeeze into my spare time. I might just have to pick your brain before going ahead though.

    That explains why you haven't been around. In case no one has mentioned it, you're working too much. ;)

    When you slow down and want to play with your speakers, let me know as I'd be glad to help.

    BTW, it was MillerLiteScott that coined the 2B TL name as we were doing up his crossovers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    When you slow down and want to play with your speakers, let me know as I'd be glad to help.

    You got it. Thanks.
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  • maxchau
    maxchau Posts: 138
    edited March 2010
    On Amazing just be aware that you will need to to work on 8 woofers when it comes time to refoam.
    Abbas Tube USB-SPDIF Converter with tube clocksAbbas V2 SE Tube DACAltmann Attraction DACNon-Pre passive preampYamaha M2 AmplifierDIY TPA3255 Mono Amps6L6 Williamson amplifier42 SET amp6V6 SET ampMcIntosh XRT18 speakersApogee Centaur MinorPioneer PAX A30 speakers
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  • thuffman03
    thuffman03 Posts: 1,325
    edited March 2010
    maxchau wrote: »
    On Amazing just be aware that you will need to to work on 8 woofers when it comes time to refoam.

    If you can find the foam surrounds for the Amazing speakers.

    I like both the SDA's and the Carver ribbon speakers. Both have very good sound and both will serve you well.
    Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t
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  • Big Dawg
    Big Dawg Posts: 2,005
    edited March 2010
    Thanks for all of the input. I've decided to keep the 2Bs and get a Dynaco ST-70 to mod. Just seems like more fun.

    And, seems this thread was a reunion of sorts. All good stuff!
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