Computer guys - hard drive question

edbert
edbert Posts: 1,041
edited February 2010 in The Clubhouse
Alright, so i have Uverse and the DVR box in my living room. I have a less than desirous situation when it comes to space in my entertainment center. The best solution I can think of is to have the DVR vertical in my cabinet because it both saves space and gives me a cleaner look. I was told by the install guy that I couldn't install it vertically because there would be damage to the disks. Is there any truth to this or are people misinformed?

Thanks!
I know just enough to be dangerous, but don't tell my wife, she thinks I'm a genius. :D

Pioneer VSX-816
Monitor 40's - fronts, bi-amped
Monitor 30's - surrounds
CS1 - center
PSW10 - I'll let you guess
Blue Jeans Cable - speaker cable
Daewoo 27 incher - one step up from a console
Sony Progressive scan DVD
XBOX

SOPA since 2008
Here's my stuff.
Post edited by edbert on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
«1

Comments

  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited February 2010
    Well I"ve seen them mounted lots of different ways in computer towers. On their side, standing up, flat, doesn't seem to make any difference..
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bigaudiofanatic
    bigaudiofanatic Posts: 4,415
    edited February 2010
    Will not effect the hard drive in anyway. I to have seen hard drives mounted in many different ways. Just make sure not to move the dvr while it is powered up as it is potential for a head crash.
    HT setup
    Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ80U
    Denon DBP-1610
    Monster HTS 1650
    Carver A400X :cool:
    MIT Exp 3 Speaker Wire
    Kef 104/2
    URC MX-780 Remote
    Sonos Play 1

    Living Room
    63 inch Samsung PN63C800YF
    Polk Surroundbar 3000
    Samsung BD-C7900
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2010
    Agreed. You should knee'd him in the groin, screamed LIAR! and kicked him out of your house....after he was done of course.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Amherst
    Amherst Posts: 695
    edited February 2010
    Not so sure...... but, my DVR throws a ton of heat (hotter than my AVR).
    Could probably cook pancakes on it.

    The heat dissipation from the electronics may cause component overheating, possibly hard drive also, if turned on side. I wouldn't consider it an option with my unit. What type DVR are we talking here? YMMV
    Parasound C1, T3, HCA-3500, HCA-2205A, P/DD1550, Pioneer DV-79avi, Oppo BDP-83, WD Media Server W/HDD,
    Dynaudio Contour 3.3, Dynaudio Contour T2.1, Polk OWM3, Polk DSW micropro 1000 (x2),
    Pioneer Kuro 50" Plasma, Phillips Pronto Control w/Niles HT-MSU.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited February 2010
    Perhaps he was told horizontal and never vertical but never told why, then making something up to justify the thinking right or wrong, not that makes it right but.... I'm thinking heat also, so vertical could over heat something design to cool as it sat horizontal.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhmacw
    mhmacw Posts: 832
    edited February 2010
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Perhaps he was told horizontal and never vertical but never told why, then making something up to justify the thinking right or wrong, not that makes it right but.... I'm thinking heat also, so vertical could over heat something design to cool as it sat horizontal.

    youve hit it disney. there are components inside that are directly in the line of heat dissipation if turned on itds side. also the vents are in the wrong place considering convection when the unit is not flat. it will "vapor lockk" if you will and cook the boards. but of course. do as you see fit. it might be just fine in your scenario
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2010
    I would bet money that Edbert is smart enough to not cover vents up. I've never heard of "vapor lock" in electronics.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhmacw
    mhmacw Posts: 832
    edited February 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    I would bet money that Edbert is smart enough to not cover vents up. I've never heard of "vapor lock" in electronics.

    you friggin people are so goddam literal it makes me sick! so theres no confusion! there is no "vapor lock " with electronics! however. if you turn the component in a direction that does not allow for flow with the given air vents it will retain heat. good god man you all arent possibly that naive and i really shouldnt have to explain these simple concepts to poeple of your stature! by retainng heat in certain spots the required ventilation isnt achieved. take a door at a casino for example. there is a verticle flow of air at the door. that creates low pressure and in essence blocks the outside environment from the inside environment. the exact reason for a base board heater under a window. you loose some heat to the window but very little when compared to the loss if there wanst a thermal barrier between the window and the interior. givent the op is asking about turnng a disk drive on its side all possible concepts of heat dissipation should be discussed.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2010
    Our company uses a variety of RAID devices from several vendors: Sun, NetApp, SGI, Dell, etc.

    RAID come in all sorts of enclosures to maximize storage given the form factor of the drives being used - some are horizontal, some are vertical.

    Heat dissipation is critical to drive life and is function of how the enclosure is designed. Most RAID are for rack mounting applications are designed as 'front to back' ventilation and air flow: suck from the front and blow out the back.

    Drives can function in either orientation: horizontal or vertical. Drive life is more a function of proper ventilation.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2010
    Erik - Do you think there would be a problem mounting it on its side with no vents being on that particular side....beings the front to back ventilation remians the same in regards to the space?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2010
    mhmacw wrote: »
    you friggin people are so goddam literal it makes me sick! so theres no confusion! there is no "vapor lock " with electronics! however. if you turn the component in a direction that does not allow for flow with the given air vents it will retain heat. good god man you all arent possibly that naive and i really shouldnt have to explain these simple concepts to poeple of your stature!

    You are officially, on your own.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    Erik - Do you think there would be a problem mounting it on its side with no vents being on that particular side....beings the front to back ventilation remians the same in regards to the space?

    For a DVR, I can only speak for the one I have which is a SA-8300HDC, which does not have a fan(at least from what I can tell - the only noise I can hear is the drive). Most home consumer components I have seen are top ventilating with a grilled or perforated top. In those types of applications, I would say horizontal for the drive to maximize the surface area of the drive case to vent heat upwards.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2010
    Fair enough. I've had my LCD on top of my cable box/DVR for almost 2 years but it vents to both sides....in which case, I'd not be able to go vertical.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhmacw
    mhmacw Posts: 832
    edited February 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    You are officially, on your own.

    sorry i dont sugar coat life for every body but its just the way i am. when someone says something like" ive never heard of vapor lock" its a smartass remark and deserves the same. the tech is essentially saying the same thing . the vent performance will suck when its in any position besides the intended. thats not just plausable deniability its a fact.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited February 2010
    I doubt it's really an issue with the hard drive itself, but again on the cooling design of the unit. But if you really need to mount like you want if it works and lives ok you won.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited February 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    For a DVR, I can only speak for the one I have which is a SA-8300HDC, which does not have a fan(at least from what I can tell - the only noise I can hear is the drive). Most home consumer components I have seen are top ventilating with a grilled or perforated top. In those types of applications, I would say horizontal for the drive to maximize the surface area of the drive case to vent heat upwards.

    The HR21 Pro's that I use have two fans on them. They both run around 100 to 105
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhmacw
    mhmacw Posts: 832
    edited February 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    You are officially, on your own.
    mhmacw wrote: »
    you friggin people are so goddam literal it makes me sick! so theres no confusion! there is no "vapor lock " with electronics! however. if you turn the component in a direction that does not allow for flow with the given air vents it will retain heat. good god man you all arent possibly that naive and i really shouldnt have to explain these simple concepts to poeple of your stature! by retainng heat in certain spots the required ventilation isnt achieved. take a door at a casino for example. there is a verticle flow of air at the door. that creates low pressure and in essence blocks the outside environment from the inside environment. the exact reason for a base board heater under a window. you loose some heat to the window but very little when compared to the loss if there wanst a thermal barrier between the window and the interior. givent the op is asking about turnng a disk drive on its side all possible concepts of heat dissipation should be discussed.
    Lorthos wrote: »
    The HR21 Pro's that I use have two fans on them. They both run around 100 to 105

    i know im stating the obvious but be sure the fans are blowing up. if your placement is such that they blow down dont hesitat to get in there and reverse polarity.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2010
    mhmacw wrote: »
    sorry i dont sugar coat life for every body but its just the way i am. when someone says something like" ive never heard of vapor lock" its a smartass remark and deserves the same. the tech is essentially saying the same thing . the vent performance will suck when its in any position besides the intended. thats not just plausable deniability its a fact.

    I said it because I've never heard that term and don't believe it was followed by smiling emoticons or typed laughter. You read way more into it and you look like a fool.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • edbert
    edbert Posts: 1,041
    edited February 2010
    Jeez, I didn't expect this type of response. I feel so loved! Especially from you Doro.

    Anyway, the dvr box is a Motorola Uverse DVR. It has venting both on the side and on the top. None of this will be blocked. Actually, one side would be blocked, but it was the same side that was blocked when it was horizontal. It sounds like mounting it vertically will be fine for me since I have plenty of ventilation.

    The only thing I have to get used to now is constantly having my head always laying on my shoulder to watch TV since the picture is going to be turned as a result of this new mounting position. But hey, it's a small sacrifice for a cleaner looking entertainment center.

    Thanks all!
    I know just enough to be dangerous, but don't tell my wife, she thinks I'm a genius. :D

    Pioneer VSX-816
    Monitor 40's - fronts, bi-amped
    Monitor 30's - surrounds
    CS1 - center
    PSW10 - I'll let you guess
    Blue Jeans Cable - speaker cable
    Daewoo 27 incher - one step up from a console
    Sony Progressive scan DVD
    XBOX

    SOPA since 2008
    Here's my stuff.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Amherst
    Amherst Posts: 695
    edited February 2010
    I am curious to find out if it lives. Please revisit this thread and update after time.Thanks!
    Parasound C1, T3, HCA-3500, HCA-2205A, P/DD1550, Pioneer DV-79avi, Oppo BDP-83, WD Media Server W/HDD,
    Dynaudio Contour 3.3, Dynaudio Contour T2.1, Polk OWM3, Polk DSW micropro 1000 (x2),
    Pioneer Kuro 50" Plasma, Phillips Pronto Control w/Niles HT-MSU.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • edbert
    edbert Posts: 1,041
    edited February 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    Agreed. You should knee'd him in the groin, screamed LIAR! and kicked him out of your house....after he was done of course.

    I actually felt like saying that to the Tier 1 guys Uverse technical support. After the install guy left I called the Technical support hotline to ask them if they had a definite answer about mounting it vertically. Here is his response, "Well, it is not advised because it can cause major system malfunctions. Their is a hard drive in the DVR that is used to record the shows on TV. There are disks in the hard drive like you put into a CD drive. If you turn it on it's side then when you turn the DVR on some of the disks would fall out and cause a failure." Ummm, yeah. Thanks for the info. "Did I provide exceptional service for you today?" Sure. Thanks.

    That guy needed to be kicked in the head and then fired for being stupid. I mean really?
    I know just enough to be dangerous, but don't tell my wife, she thinks I'm a genius. :D

    Pioneer VSX-816
    Monitor 40's - fronts, bi-amped
    Monitor 30's - surrounds
    CS1 - center
    PSW10 - I'll let you guess
    Blue Jeans Cable - speaker cable
    Daewoo 27 incher - one step up from a console
    Sony Progressive scan DVD
    XBOX

    SOPA since 2008
    Here's my stuff.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited February 2010
    I would plug this DVR in an UPS, I feel most DVR die due to a drive head hitting the dish when power is hit down. Just my $.02 :)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited February 2010
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    I would plug this DVR in an UPS, I feel most DVR die due to a drive head hitting the dish when power is hit down. Just my $.02 :)

    Yes, both of my DVR's are on UPS's
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited February 2010
    The drive itself isn't going to care which way it's mounted. It could be horizonal, verticle, or upside-down. One thing they don't recommend, is anything other than a 90 * angle. Other than that, it's fair game. Mount it upside down for all they care.

    Like everyone else has said, it likely has more to do with the ventilation in the box.
    Ludicrous gibs!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhmacw
    mhmacw Posts: 832
    edited February 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    I said it because I've never heard that term and don't believe it was followed by smiling emoticons or typed laughter. You read way more into it and you look like a fool.

    sorry for the confusion but are you saying this could all be averted by using those cheesy emoticons?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited February 2010
    Mark - To his credit, he did put "vapor lock" in quotes.

    Also, I understand what he's saying. If you fight the laws of thermodynamics by having your exhaust fans at the bottom of the unit, it will overheat the top part of the unit and cause failures.
    Ludicrous gibs!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited February 2010
    I'm well aware of those things as well and I just asked a question....and was summarily called an idiot. I'm outta here, Happy Listening!
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhmacw
    mhmacw Posts: 832
    edited February 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    I'm well aware of those things as well and I just asked a question....and was summarily called an idiot. I'm outta here, Happy Listening!

    man i didnt call any body and idiot. if someone has the experience that has been portrayed then it should have been obvious to the most casual observer what my reference was. to respond in a fashion that implies my post made no sense shows either ignorance of indifference. neither of which is respectful and could in most cases be considered disrepectful given your position. i 've taken your advice and searched names vs. pics vs. screen names and really all i have to say is there isnt one of "yall" that would speak to me face to face as you speak to me here. fabricate text as you will and make the story up as you go along but its in the type and its undeniable. sorry to have ruffled the echelons feathers that wasnt my intention. ultimately my position stands... if you mount a piece of equipment in a fashion different than designed you may run into performance issues. specifically cooling.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhmacw
    mhmacw Posts: 832
    edited February 2010
    Lorthos wrote: »
    Yes, both of my DVR's are on UPS's

    i used fed ex lol
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited February 2010
    Mounting a hard drive on it's side doesn't hurt anything. HP's and Compaq's did this a lot. A lot of servers with hot swaps are on there side.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter