Getting more out of RTi8s.

Ohioste

Alright, so I'm still learning the ends and outs of the audio part of the home theatre setup. There's not much I can do to upgrade the TV, except buy a new one...and well...the wife would have a fit.

So what about the speakers...

I have two RTi8s with an Onkyo 805. Would a pre amp help? I saw someone selling one on the forums and that's why I'm asking. I'm not sure what exactly it does .

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan

curved

You'll get the most if you get an external amp with good IC's. If that doesn't do it for you, I suggest doing a cap/resistor mod. It makes a big difference.

packetjones

you would not really need a preamp with the 805. A preamp is the sound processor used to connect your cd player and other components to. In your case the 805 is the preamp. You would want to look into an amp tp connect the 805 to. This will allow you to have more power than what the 805 can produce. An easy way to think about it is this. The 805 that you have is basically a pre-amp and an amp all built into one. There are people that purchase an amp and the processor seperately.


Another thing to consider to get more out of your RTi8's is a better sub. I have the A5's which is the newer version of your speakers. A good sub is a great compliemnt to these. You may also look at new wire or even something simple such as adding spikes to them.

hope this helps.

GTB

packetjones wrote: »

Another thing to consider to get more out of your RTi8's is a better sub. I have the A5's which is the newer version of your speakers. A good sub is a great compliemnt to these. You may also look at new wire or even something simple such as adding spikes to them.

+1000 on the sub. The RTi8's go lower than many would think, but without a good sub will still leave the bottom end lacking. A good sub adds that punch.

Ohioste

Man...I'm not sure I can justify a sub. Recommendations though? I live in an apartment and the RTi8s already shake the Ohio State pictures in my house. My wife and I are somewhat surprised that the neighbors haven't complained yet.

The good news...is that we are looking at a house currently. So...if we do buy a house...I will be saving up for a nice sub and hopefully some FXis.

So...would you still recommend a sub? If so...what do you guys prefer? I hear some people don't believe polk subs are the best. I've heard people mention dayton subs?

I'd prefer a lower budget sub...as I will need money for the house first, lol.

danz1906

Try a used SVS or Epik subwoofer.

packetjones

For a budget sub that still has good reviews around here, look at the polk 505 on newegg. I think it is like $250 right now. There is also the ED A2-300 for $350.

What is your budget on a sub?

mdaudioguy

+1 for an amp and ICs... and of course, a sub. Take it slow... all the upgrades don't need to come at once. It's actually fun to upgrade incrementally, so that you can appreciate the difference each step of the process makes for you. Good luck!

comfortablycurt

Do you do a lot of 2 channel music listening?

If so, forget about hooking up an amp to your AVR, and get a separate preamp and power amp. Or possibly an integrated amp.

AVR's and music don't go well together.

mdaudioguy

comfortablycurt wrote: »

AVR's and music don't go well together.

You forgot to qualify that as your opinion. My opinion is that it depends on how closely you're listening, how it sounds to you, and how much you care about how it sounds. Music can sound very good with an AVR. Lots of people here would agree.

mdaudioguy

Ohioste wrote: »

I have two RTi8s with an Onkyo 805. Would a pre amp help?

Reading your question again, I realize one thing you haven't told us - what exactly are you wanting to improve? You're looking for something to "help", be it a pre-amp, amp, sub, etc... But perhaps you should tell us what you'd like to achieve.

comfortablycurt

mdaudioguy wrote: »

You forgot to qualify that as your opinion. My opinion is that it depends on how closely you're listening, how it sounds to you, and how much you care about how it sounds. Music can sound very good with an AVR. Lots of people here would agree.

Yes, I did forget to qualify that as IMO.;)


So, to reiterate, AVR's and music don't go well together, in my ever so humble opinion. Not to say that music can't sound good through an AVR, but it's never going to equal the sound quality of even a low budget, but well thought out 2 channel rig(IMO).

xcapri79 wrote: »

I take it you haven't listened to music using a Pioneer Elite SC-07 AVR.

No, I haven't, but I'd love to check an SC-07/27 out. My HT rig has been completely disassembled, to focus on 2 channel. When I get back into it though, I'll most likely either go with an SC-07/27, or an Onkyo 805/807...or possibly an NR1007. I don't imagine I'll be putting together a new HT rig for at least a few years though...so that decision is still a long way off.





To the OP...If better 2 channel listening is what you're looking for, you might want to look into getting a 2 channel preamp with HT bypass, and a power amp. Or an integrated amp with HT bypass. This lets you hook the preamp up to the preamp outputs of your AVR. Your sources(DVD player etc.) digital/HDMI outputs would be hooked up to your 805, and the 2 channel analog outputs would be connected directly to the 2 channel pre. When you want to do some 2 channel listening, you'd just do it through the 2 channel rig. When you want to do some movie watching, you turn the input selector of your 2 channel pre to HT bypass, and the AVR will do all of the processing, and send the signal through the 2 channel pre without modifying the signal.

mdaudioguy

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Yes, I did forget to qualify that as IMO.;)

So, to reiterate, AVR's and music don't go well together, in my ever so humble opinion. Not to say that music can't sound good through an AVR, but it's never going to equal the sound quality of even a low budget, but well thought out 2 channel rig(IMO).

Excellent opinion! It's great that you included "well thought out." So ALL low budget (whatever that is...) 2-channel rigs beat the ALL of the best AVRs on the market, IF they're well thought out? You're funny. I've been watching your evolution here from HT enthusiast to full-fledged 2-channel guy... Looks like you're enjoying yourself. Enjoy your ride!

Hawkeye

I'll take a contrary position here. Upgrades are fun and exciting. However, if your going to buy a house soon, wait till you get into the house before upgrading. What works in an apartment may not work in your home.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Gordon

curved

Hawkeye wrote: »

I'll take a contrary position here. Upgrades are fun and exciting. However, if your going to buy a house soon, wait till you get into the house before upgrading. What works in an apartment may not work in your home.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Gordon

Good point - although you really can't go wrong with an external amp.

comfortablycurt

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Excellent opinion! It's great that you included "well thought out." So ALL low budget (whatever that is...) 2-channel rigs beat the ALL of the best AVRs on the market, IF they're well thought out? You're funny. I've been watching your evolution here from HT enthusiast to full-fledged 2-channel guy... Looks like you're enjoying yourself. Enjoy your ride!

Yes...I've changed my pace a bit in the time I've been here.:) Things are sounding better than ever.


My 2 channel rig was by no means expensive...but it sounds fantastic. Let's add it up...

Adcom 545-$200
Acurus L10-$125(IIRC)
Denon 2910-$100(which I actually still owe Rich for...now that I think of it...)
Yamaha P300 turntable-$50(also still owe Rich for this...I'll get it to ya!)
TCC-TC-750 phono pre-$25
APC H10 power conditioner-$100
DPA Little Bit Three DAC(Karma from Ricardo, along with my Signal Analog II's...Thanks!!)
AQ Sidewinder IC's-$90ish for all of them
SDA 2A's-$200


So, that puts the total cost of my 2 channel rig at right around $900, give or take a bit for my bad memory...lol

All of the pieces that I selected were well thought out with system synergy in mind, and in a rather budget minded way.

People will spend WELL over that amount for just an AVR. Obviously, some people have different needs(surround sound etc), but if you're primarily a 2 channel listener, you can put together a fantastic sounding 2 channel rig for a lot less than the cost of just an AVR(that's excluding the extra cost of a source, cables, speakers and power amps(if you so choose). Add all of that stuff, and you're looking at more like 2-3k depending on what you choose.

I'd be willing to put my 2 channel rig up against any AVR on the face of the planet. I have confidence that it would come out on top.:)

If anyone cares to take that challenge up, you're welcome to bring your AVR to my house and hook it up to my source and speakers for a shoot out.:)

mdaudioguy

Curt - Sounds like you've done quite well! However, in a HT application, I'll take my rig over yours for playing back a 7.1 Blu-Ray any day! And, the music's sounding better and better through it too. I could never plug it into your rig, though... the synergy just wouldn't be there.

Sorry OP for jacking your thread!

2.5XT

I am running RTi12's with a Behringer EP4000 of my Onkyo 805. I think you can get what you are looking for if you just add an external AMP. If you were to run the Behringer EP2000 you would have around 350w/channel and notice a significant increase in output, clarity, and bass response. This setup is not overly bright or harsh in the least bit. If anything I would say its on the warmer side.

comfortablycurt

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Curt - Sounds like you've done quite well! However, in a HT application, I'll take my rig over yours for playing back a 7.1 Blu-Ray any day! And, the music's sounding better and better through it too. I could never plug it into your rig, though... the synergy just wouldn't be there.

Sorry OP for jacking your thread!

With SDA's...you don't need surround sound.;)

I watch movies/TV through my 2 channel rig, and it's yet to leave me wishing I still had surround sound.

rcrook317

xcapri79 wrote: »

The RTi8's need a sub for the low end and sound much better driven by an external amp.
With a Emotiva UPA-2 amp and a PSW505 sub, the two channel sound was much improved.

think this setup would blow you away!
The minute u add a sub you'll wonder why u went so long w/out 1

Ohioste

Wow...I went to play some basketball and lay some hardwood floor and this thread sort of took off.

I know someone asked what I was looking to achieve. I had nothing here in mind, just looking for something better. There's a few things I know I need. I've had my RTi8s for about a year now. Absolutely love them. I originally did not have a good center and now I have a mediocre center.

I don't listen to any music on the system. I'm looking to get more out of my home theatre rig. Again, you may be right to wait until I get a house...but just doing some research now.

All of you guys have been so helpful on these forums. To the time I bought by RTi8s, helping me get the right AVR, cables and etc. It's all appreciated. I've sent a few people here looking for help as well. Some of the simple questions I can answer, but I've had a few people sign up.

So, let me know what you guys think of. I tried to find an amp. I didn't see too many used Emotiva amps that were listed above. If so, the used price is just about as expensive as you can buy it from Emotiva new. I've seen on my search that they may be backordered though. Doesn't matter to me as I'm pretty patient and still pretty happy with my setup.

One question which I assume is not RTi8 related...sometimes it seems as the music in the RTi8s blow out my center. My current center is CS-250s. Should I upgrade that to eliminate this problem? I just feel that there are times where I have to have the system up to loud to understand what they are saying. Especially if there is a lot of action or music in the background. Any thoughts?

daboyz

Get a Csi5. It's timbre matched and the dialogue will jump out at you.
This is the next thing you should do.

mdaudioguy

daboyz wrote: »

Get a Csi5. It's timbre matched and the dialogue will jump out at you.
This is the next thing you should do.

Yep. +1 - Improve your center, then a house, then a sub. Do you have surrounds?

packetjones

I agree as well on the center. If you do not have a good center I would get that first. The center channel is the most important speaker when it comes to HT as 50-75% of the movie soundtrack comes through the center channel. Next in my opinion would be a good sub. Nothing changes the HT like a sub. Surrounds are not as important as not that much sound comes from them and you can get some cheap bookshelfs if you dont have surrounds already.

In regards to the amp question. If you want to go with an emotiva I would go with a new one. There is not really a lot of love for emotiva here so others probably would not recommend it. There are a lot of other used/vintage amps out there that tyou could look into as well. I am currently researching what is available and you can get something nice in the $300 range. Look into some adcom/carver/rotel options for used amps. I would say that the amp would be one of the last things if you do not have a decent center/sub combo now.

comfortablycurt

daboyz wrote: »

Get a Csi5. It's timbre matched and the dialogue will jump out at you.
This is the next thing you should do.

+1

The CSi5 is a beast of a center, and sounds great paired up with the RTi8's. That's what I was running in my HT for a while, with some RTi6's for surrounds.

A sub would make a huge improvement as well. You might think that the 8's have good bass output(which they do, within reason), but it's a case of not knowing what you're missing. A sub will really help to fill in the last couple octaves of low frequency information.

cnh

YOU NEED A CENTER.

Remember the center carries more than 50 percent of surround information in a movie soundtrack!!

That Onkyo has plenty of power for Rti-8s. Would they sound better with 250 watts per channel driving them....SURE! A bit better bass, more open sound, better soundstage (a bit). The dynamics will improve most definitely with an external power amp.

But I would try to get the center first. I run a set of M70s/CS2 with that same Onkyo and it does a great job....power wise the M70s are about as efficient and have the same range as Rti-8s. With the 8s having a more pronounced forward high end and the M70s a more balanced full range and better imaging IMO.

I hooked my M70s up to an Adcom 555 a few times and that really opened them up. I would imagine you'd experience the same. But for 5.1 surround I, personally, don't feel the need for a power amp. My room is a mid-sized room and the Onkyo can put out more than 130 watts per channel...it's a 51 pound beast.

cnh

NewHTguy

daboyz wrote: »

Get a Csi5. It's timbre matched and the dialogue will jump out at you.
This is the next thing you should do.

+1. When I had my Rti10s the Csi5 really pulled the front sound stage together.

lmacmil

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I'd be willing to put my 2 channel rig up against any AVR on the face of the planet. I have confidence that it would come out on top.:)

And I'd be willing to be that in a level-matched blind listening test, with the same source material and same speakers, you couldn't tell the difference between your system and an AVR of comparable power.

I guess we'll never know...

mdaudioguy

comfortablycurt wrote: »

With SDA's...you don't need surround sound.;)

I watch movies/TV through my 2 channel rig, and it's yet to leave me wishing I still had surround sound.

Um.... yeah. :rolleyes:
Enjoy your immersive 2-channel movie experience... Actually, we download a lot of SD movies with 2-channel audio... That's where Dolby PLII does a great job - probably better than SDAs!!

lmacmil wrote: »

And I'd be willing to be that in a level-matched blind listening test, with the same source material and same speakers, you couldn't tell the difference between your system and an AVR of comparable power.

I guess we'll never know...

Actually, I'd take your bet.

jinjuku

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Um.... yeah. :rolleyes:
Enjoy your immersive 2-channel movie experience... Actually, we download a lot of SD movies with 2-channel audio... That's where Dolby PLII does a great job - probably better than SDAs!!


Actually, I'd take your bet.

I have an HK 3600 AVR. HK and Marantz are two surround units that people seem pretty impressed with when used for strictly 2 channel audio.

I don't know what I am going to do when I finish my speakers for my 2.0 setup... I think it will depend on what I can demo. I would like a straight forward setup and a 2 channel pre-pro that doesn't presume to do much is appealing for the sake of simplicity.