Skiing Ninja crossover upgrade
chamont
Posts: 22
Hello all,
I wanted to report on my experience with Sean and Skiing Ninja. My speakers are LSi15s and an LSiC.
I'd been perusing all of the crossover mod threads for quite some time. I started pulling together a parts list, determining a strategy for installation, choosing between the different xover brands, etc. The problem I ran across was that there wasn't one single, straightforward how-to somewhere. It felt very bleeding edge, and error-prone--at least for my level of electronics know-how.
Here I'd like to emphasize that I am getting absolutely nothing from Skiing Ninja for this write-up. I told him I'd post a review, but there was no explicit or implicit agreement between us.
I started by probing him with a few emails. He said that he was working on creating upgrades for Polk, and to hang tight. I gave it a couple of months, and a few emails later, he agreed to set me up. I believe I'm actually the second Polk upgrade he did. The first was praedet's (?) LSi9's.
Through the ordering process he was very helpful, realizing that the paint was still drying, so to speak, on the Polk upgrades. I decided to go with Ninja Master (his best), with the crossovers in external enclosures. Initially I ordered Sonicap Gen2's as the bypass caps, but later upgraded to Sonicap Platinums for the tweeters. So, more or less, I ordered his ultra-premium product. Incidentally, I'd strongly recommend external enclosures because these new networks are enormous.
He told me that the build-time would be 4-6 weeks. These babies are hand-build with point-to-point solders between components--no PCB traces anywhere. I hoped he was just giving me a high estimate time-wise, but it took the full six weeks to arrive. Granted, it was during Christmas time, and there were a couple of parts that arrived to him out of spec or damaged, so a lot of it was out of anyone's control. Regardless, about six weeks later, they made it. Incidentally, Sean kept me updated all along the way and gave me a call a couple of times to talk me down from a ledge.
Once they got here, packaged extremely well, I couldn't help but notice how incredibly well built they are. I struggle to describe them in words. They're like hand-crafted works of art. Gorgeous, shiny, furniture-grade cabinets. Inside, they're meticulously built and lovingly arranged. Yes, I paid a lot of money for them, granted. However, on looks alone, I was already impressed.
But how do they sound?
Well well well. I've always liked my LSi15s. They're fantastic speakers for the price, and they have great balance and punch. They take a lot of power to drive, but if you've invested in a nice amplifier, they do well. I've never really been in love with my LSiC, but it is still clearly the nicest center channel I've ever owned.
As of this moment, and I'm listening to Disintegration by The Cure, I am astounded that I'm actually listening to the same drivers I had before. People talk about "soundstage" all the time in forums. I know what they meant, but I can't say I've ever really heard a proper soundstage before the upgrade. I had Norah Jones on last night, and I would close my eyes and point to where the instruments were coming from. That's probably the most satisfying part of this upgrade--the feeling of having "live" music right in front of me.
I was also, after reading all about bypass capacitors, worried about the fatigue factor. Granted, I ordered the Sonicap Platinum bypass caps--so I can't say how the Gen2 caps would fare--but there is absolutely no fatigue. I've had fatiguing speakers in the past, and I know exactly how it feels to be exhausted after cranking up my favorite CD for a while. It sucks. But these LSi15's, and high and low levels, are liquid smooth, articulate, and revealing without a hint of fatigue. Brilliant. I credit the Vifa tweeter for that. It's amazing.
I can crank up my stereo LOUD now and feel like the drywall is going to come off the walls. But the speakers don't shout at me. They just get BIG and spacious. Voices sound natural, like they're coming from a person's throat, with phlegm, saliva, and regular breaths in and out. They are revealing now. Not analytical, but revealing.
For instance, my favorite young band, Silversun Pickups, have a new album called Swoon. They're a pretty informal crew, and their recordings have a somewhat live feel. At the start of the song Growing Old is Getting Old, you can hear a couple of the band members whispering to each other. I had no clue this was there, and I bet the engineers didn't even realize it. I'd listened to this song probably 50 times before playing it on the upgraded Polks. I cracked up laughing and called my wife in to hear it too.
Finally, movies are brilliant now. Brilliant. The LSiC has fully come to life, and I can't believe how much dialog I was straining to hear. I went to the movie theater last weekend, and was a little disappointed at the sound compared to what I've gotten used to at home. As I re-read that sentence it sounds a little over the top, but it's the honest truth. The LSiC is an awesome center channel.
The bottom line to this review is this: The LSi line of speakers are brilliant, but they're limited by their electronics. I feel like I have the best of both worlds now. I spent a reasonable amount of money for the LSI15's and C several years ago. Now, I've spent a bit more to upgrade them without having to buy completely new speakers (and sell the old ones). It's perfect. And I feel like I would have to spend an OBSCENE amount of money to outclass these speakers. Sure, I'd take a pair of Wilson Alexandria's over these Polks any day. That's not the point. For the money I have invested in these, I feel like they are untouchable.
I wanted to report on my experience with Sean and Skiing Ninja. My speakers are LSi15s and an LSiC.
I'd been perusing all of the crossover mod threads for quite some time. I started pulling together a parts list, determining a strategy for installation, choosing between the different xover brands, etc. The problem I ran across was that there wasn't one single, straightforward how-to somewhere. It felt very bleeding edge, and error-prone--at least for my level of electronics know-how.
Here I'd like to emphasize that I am getting absolutely nothing from Skiing Ninja for this write-up. I told him I'd post a review, but there was no explicit or implicit agreement between us.
I started by probing him with a few emails. He said that he was working on creating upgrades for Polk, and to hang tight. I gave it a couple of months, and a few emails later, he agreed to set me up. I believe I'm actually the second Polk upgrade he did. The first was praedet's (?) LSi9's.
Through the ordering process he was very helpful, realizing that the paint was still drying, so to speak, on the Polk upgrades. I decided to go with Ninja Master (his best), with the crossovers in external enclosures. Initially I ordered Sonicap Gen2's as the bypass caps, but later upgraded to Sonicap Platinums for the tweeters. So, more or less, I ordered his ultra-premium product. Incidentally, I'd strongly recommend external enclosures because these new networks are enormous.
He told me that the build-time would be 4-6 weeks. These babies are hand-build with point-to-point solders between components--no PCB traces anywhere. I hoped he was just giving me a high estimate time-wise, but it took the full six weeks to arrive. Granted, it was during Christmas time, and there were a couple of parts that arrived to him out of spec or damaged, so a lot of it was out of anyone's control. Regardless, about six weeks later, they made it. Incidentally, Sean kept me updated all along the way and gave me a call a couple of times to talk me down from a ledge.
Once they got here, packaged extremely well, I couldn't help but notice how incredibly well built they are. I struggle to describe them in words. They're like hand-crafted works of art. Gorgeous, shiny, furniture-grade cabinets. Inside, they're meticulously built and lovingly arranged. Yes, I paid a lot of money for them, granted. However, on looks alone, I was already impressed.
But how do they sound?
Well well well. I've always liked my LSi15s. They're fantastic speakers for the price, and they have great balance and punch. They take a lot of power to drive, but if you've invested in a nice amplifier, they do well. I've never really been in love with my LSiC, but it is still clearly the nicest center channel I've ever owned.
As of this moment, and I'm listening to Disintegration by The Cure, I am astounded that I'm actually listening to the same drivers I had before. People talk about "soundstage" all the time in forums. I know what they meant, but I can't say I've ever really heard a proper soundstage before the upgrade. I had Norah Jones on last night, and I would close my eyes and point to where the instruments were coming from. That's probably the most satisfying part of this upgrade--the feeling of having "live" music right in front of me.
I was also, after reading all about bypass capacitors, worried about the fatigue factor. Granted, I ordered the Sonicap Platinum bypass caps--so I can't say how the Gen2 caps would fare--but there is absolutely no fatigue. I've had fatiguing speakers in the past, and I know exactly how it feels to be exhausted after cranking up my favorite CD for a while. It sucks. But these LSi15's, and high and low levels, are liquid smooth, articulate, and revealing without a hint of fatigue. Brilliant. I credit the Vifa tweeter for that. It's amazing.
I can crank up my stereo LOUD now and feel like the drywall is going to come off the walls. But the speakers don't shout at me. They just get BIG and spacious. Voices sound natural, like they're coming from a person's throat, with phlegm, saliva, and regular breaths in and out. They are revealing now. Not analytical, but revealing.
For instance, my favorite young band, Silversun Pickups, have a new album called Swoon. They're a pretty informal crew, and their recordings have a somewhat live feel. At the start of the song Growing Old is Getting Old, you can hear a couple of the band members whispering to each other. I had no clue this was there, and I bet the engineers didn't even realize it. I'd listened to this song probably 50 times before playing it on the upgraded Polks. I cracked up laughing and called my wife in to hear it too.
Finally, movies are brilliant now. Brilliant. The LSiC has fully come to life, and I can't believe how much dialog I was straining to hear. I went to the movie theater last weekend, and was a little disappointed at the sound compared to what I've gotten used to at home. As I re-read that sentence it sounds a little over the top, but it's the honest truth. The LSiC is an awesome center channel.
The bottom line to this review is this: The LSi line of speakers are brilliant, but they're limited by their electronics. I feel like I have the best of both worlds now. I spent a reasonable amount of money for the LSI15's and C several years ago. Now, I've spent a bit more to upgrade them without having to buy completely new speakers (and sell the old ones). It's perfect. And I feel like I would have to spend an OBSCENE amount of money to outclass these speakers. Sure, I'd take a pair of Wilson Alexandria's over these Polks any day. That's not the point. For the money I have invested in these, I feel like they are untouchable.
Post edited by chamont on
Comments
-
Nice write up, the LSI series really come to life with the crossover upgrades. I know i love mine.Living Room Rig:D
Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
Xbox360/PS3/WII
M.Br. setup:)
Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
Computer Rig:
Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's -
Post some pics of Sean's work.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
-
TouchOfEvil wrote: »Nice write up, the LSI series really come to life with the crossover upgrades. I know i love mine.
Glad to hear you are enjoying my work on your XO's.
BenPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
do you also have the sticker??:DVideo: LG 55LN5100/Samsung LNT4065F
Receiver: HK AVR445
Source: OPPO BDP-93
HT: POLK SPEAKERS RTi6, FXi3, CSi5, VTF-3 MK2
2Ch system: MC2105, AR-XA, AR-2A, AR9, BX-300, OPPO BDP-83 -
-
I have a bunch of pictures, but didn't think to post them last night. I'll dig some up and get them up tonight.
-
I love mine too!
My LSi9s have the internal Ninja Master w/ Sonicap Platinum Bypass Caps and my LSiC has the same w/ an external X-over.HT: Ninja Master LSi9s, Ninja Master LSiC, Slightly Modded LSiFXs, Modded LSi7s, Outlaw LFM-1 EX and Polk PSW125
Outlaw 970 Preamp, Outlaw 7700 Amp, Velodyne SMS-1, Oppo BDP-83,
2 APC H-15s and a Panamax 5400 for good measure
Stereo: DIY Alix Music Server, DODD Audio Battery Tube Buffer, Modded DAC-60 and MF V-Link (for now), DIY Silver ICs, Battery Powered Class D SDS-254 Amp, and GR-Research N2X Speakers -
Glad to hear you are enjoying my work on your XO's.
Ben
Absolutely, i enjoy em more and more every time i listen to them.:)Living Room Rig:D
Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
Xbox360/PS3/WII
M.Br. setup:)
Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
Computer Rig:
Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's -
Hope you don't mind if I post some photos...
Pre-wire
Sean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
We neglected to take nice photos of these so you are stuck with what we have
Inside the enclosure:
Sean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
-
Thanks for allowing me to post these here!
NSean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
Nice work!"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
-
Very nice product. What does the completed boxes look like?
-
Very nice product. What does the completed boxes look like?
Here are some quick photos:
Sean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
We also have these available now:
The top is clear plexi. The drawer slides out to enable easy upgrades through the years as new stuff comes out. Spiked feet included. Piano Gloss Black finish - thousands of other colors available as well as veneer or veneer/paint combo. NO butt joints on the corners!Sean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
^^^Hmmm
How hard would it be to change my LSiC stuff over to that? What are the dimensions?HT: Ninja Master LSi9s, Ninja Master LSiC, Slightly Modded LSiFXs, Modded LSi7s, Outlaw LFM-1 EX and Polk PSW125
Outlaw 970 Preamp, Outlaw 7700 Amp, Velodyne SMS-1, Oppo BDP-83,
2 APC H-15s and a Panamax 5400 for good measure
Stereo: DIY Alix Music Server, DODD Audio Battery Tube Buffer, Modded DAC-60 and MF V-Link (for now), DIY Silver ICs, Battery Powered Class D SDS-254 Amp, and GR-Research N2X Speakers -
They look like PE pre-built cabinets.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-700"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Yes, those are PE cabs. Least expensive way to get external enclosures.
That is what Praedet already has. If you are interested in the Ninja Custom Enclosures, shoot me an email and we can go over the details.
Thanks!Sean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
Face,
BTW, they are the .38cu' cabs as the .25's are usually quite a bit more expensive!
NSean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
As long as this doesn't turn into a full scale, private business FS thread, exchange information but I believe enough has been posted for the membership to make internet handshakes. The work looks very good and the pics certainly follow that up.
It would be nice to see one in a Polk loudspeaker....you're not the only one on the ground that's done this you know.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
So, how do these work? Do you put the box in the speaker or are they external crossovers at this point? I would also like to see a picture of it hooked up to the speakers....
It does look like nice work...
MichaelMains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms) -
External. It's quite a bit of work to fit a fully upgraded LSi15 crossover internally.So, how do these work? Do you put the box in the speaker or are they external crossovers at this point?"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I agree and that's why I didn't post the details for Mr. P. I don't want to come across as marketing here. If I do anything untoward, please do let me know.
I do have photos of some installs in Polk speakers. I'll find and post.
Thanks!As long as this doesn't turn into a full scale, private business FS thread, exchange information but I believe enough has been posted for the membership to make internet handshakes. The work looks very good and the pics certainly follow that up.
It would be nice to see one in a Polk loudspeaker....you're not the only one on the ground that's done this you know.Sean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
Here is the LSi9 network we originally built to see if it could be done:
... and here is a test fit into the speaker:
It does fit inside the speaker but takes up too much room among other things.
NSean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
Here is the LSiC network:
... and here is the test fit:
Like the 9, it fits but again takes up too much room and this one is a very difficult install. I don't recommend attempting this
The other stuff you see is NoRez.
NSean Ries
Owner, Skiing Ninja Systems -
Excellent work.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
-
looks very nice.Living Room Rig:D
Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
Xbox360/PS3/WII
M.Br. setup:)
Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
Computer Rig:
Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's -
How do the external crossovers connect to the speakers? I assume there must be some internal surgery involved to take the existing internal crossovers out of the circuit?SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
-
Jetmaker737 wrote: »How do the external crossovers connect to the speakers? I assume there must be some internal surgery involved to take the existing internal crossovers out of the circuit?
It's really easy, but there's a bit of surgery. He (the ninja) posts little videos of the process on his web site. It's probably 15 minutes per speaker if you've never done anything like that before. (And like 3 minutes per speaker once you've done it.)
My install was a tiny bit different (and easier) than normal because I have them installed in an external cabinet. In a nutshell, the crossovers come with 6 (or 8 depending on your speaker) wires running from little holes in the crossover cabinet. (There are plates and grommets on the cabinets to make it all look very professional.)
You just unscrew the driver from the cabinet, push the wire through the back of the cabinet, and out the hole where the speaker goes. So, to visualize it, you have the big speaker hole, two wires coming out of it, and the speaker driver in your hand. The wires come pre-tinned, so you just heat up the back of driver connector, touch some solder onto the wire, and it will suck right onto the speaker. Lather rinse repeat for all your drivers.
Oh, and don't forget to toss that offensive old stock crossover directly into the garbage.
It's not as easy as walking into a store and saying "that one". But there's really nothing to it.
I do have pictures that I've been meaning to post to this thread. I'm just finishing my basement remodel, so I'll have my other computer back soon with the pictures.
