Disturbed about a sound enhancement product!

madmax

OK so I normally disregard crap like this but I found these at a closeout store. MSRP of $119, I picked it up because it was only $12.99 + tax.
It its called a Sound Enhancer with TDS technology from Audio Research. It is a small very well built module. It goes in line between source and preamp or in a tape loop. I don't even know why it caught my eye but it did. After first plugging it in I thought it thought all it did was add a few db of gain. After playing with it all night I found that increasing the gain on my preamp didn't provide the same quality as switching on this unit. WTF? It doesn't really change any sound qualities, it just seems to make it more dynamic. I am impressed enough that I think I am going to buy a few more just in case it is worthwile. I will take it apart to see what is in it in the next few weeks but at least tonight I'm impressed. Has anyone else tried this thing?
madmax

http://www.tdsaudio.com/consumer.asp

edit: Oh yea, it is passive and comes with decent audio cables worth at least the price I paid.

Also, let me point out that this is the first evening I really enjoyed my lsi15's.

RuSsMaN

Chuck, you wouldn't pick one up for me, would ya? I'd make it worth the trouble.

Cheers,
Russ

F1nut

Hmmmmmm.....interesting.

madmax

Sure Russ, I'll pick it up this evening. It may be as simple as a matching transformer with decent properties but it sure added something. In the info it doesn't tell you how it works but it does say it may sound better in one place in the signal chain rather than another and to try it in various places. I'm going to pick up another one or two in case I want another in the future.
madmax

burdette

It obviously performs electrical transfer function that changes entirely the relative signal-strength levels, frequency to frequency. From the site:

"TDS accomplishes this by compensating for deficiencies (i.e., sensitivity disparity) in the human hearing system (HHS). As a result of properly compensating for HHS deficiencies, TDS enhances the listener’s ability to more accurately hear and perceive the entire presented musical range at any listening level, enabling the listener to discern increased sound stage, separation, low level and ambient information, restoring the impact and fidelity of a “live performance” that would otherwise not be apparent without TDS. The TDS enhancement is based on the physiological science of human hearing and carefully nurtured by empirical research."


It is well known that human hearing responds differently to different frequencies (this is the primary reason for a 'loudness' control). This unit apparently takes the 'average' human hearing response curve and increases the signal strength for those areas of the spectrum where the ear tends to be less responsive.

So, indeed, I'm sure the music sounds different. In my opinion, this thing is a graphic equalizer that is NOT user adjustable and is permanently set. If they wanted to take it further, they should have buttons on the front for "teenager", "middle age" and "old ****", because the response of the human ear changes as we age.

It completely ignores the fact that the recording engineers and producers that made the mix ALSO 'suffer' from normal human hearing 'deficiencies.' I'd think the single equalization setup that this unit has could be pleasing to some.. strident to others.. but artificial all the time.

BeginnersLuck

Where did you order them from?

madmax

It is funny though because I can't actually point to any frequency changes. I have become intimately familiar with all the bands from using 10 band and 30 band eq's. Whatever changes they are making must be very wide band. (very small slopes). One possibility is that it is increasing the drive voltage of the source? I mean it is, obviously, because of the increased output. Could it be matching input/output impedances better than they were initially?
madmax

madmax

I picked it up from a local buyout store.
madmax

RuSsMaN

Thanks MM, I appreciate it.

madmax

Russman,
I went back and the stack they had was gone. They said they sold very quickly. I made a trip to the next closest store which was about 30 miles away and they had them so I got you one. That is gonna cost you big time. Not really because I wanted to pick up a few spares for multi-channel. I'm pretty sure I have your address. I'll try to get it out tomorrow.

I thought this quote I found on the side of the box was interesting:

"With TDS, the sound was uniformly richer, yet with greater detail. Instruments seemed to sound more like what they sound like with better separation. I liked what TDS did in my system... I'll use it."
-Michael Fremer, Senior Editor, Stereophile Magazine.

I played with it again tonight and I don't see any down side, just better sound. Less like a set of speakers and more like reality. I'm sure it may depend on a lot of variables but I'm sold at this point.

madmax

RuSsMaN

Man, I'll take of it, you ROCK!

Email me : russcgates@attbi.com

I *think* I still have your addy, I'll look!

Cheers,
Rooster

madmax

Originally posted by burdette

So, indeed, I'm sure the music sounds different. In my opinion, this thing is a graphic equalizer that is NOT user adjustable and is permanently set. If they wanted to take it further, they should have buttons on the front for "teenager", "middle age" and "old ****", because the response of the human ear changes as we age.

It completely ignores the fact that the recording engineers and producers that made the mix ALSO 'suffer' from normal human hearing 'deficiencies.' I'd think the single equalization setup that this unit has could be pleasing to some.. strident to others.. but artificial all the time.

Burdette,
One thing I've learned is that if someone blindfolds you, takes you to a real performance, then takes you to a room with a stereo in it you will be able to tell the difference. Given that, we all know there are compromises. I mean, the day someone sells a system which acurately produces the same thing in your living room that you hear live there will be no question. Everyone will have that system. If you don't have that system then you will be off track. I spent over 10 years going through components with my SDA setup and finally there has come a point where I can listen to a particular band I listen to practice live every now and then which I can take their excellently produced CD home, close my eyes and not know the difference. But that is a different system. Right now I am listening to some new Lsi's and they sound like a standard stereo. I have learned that if something brings that a little closer to life in your system then it is probably a good thing. As things change and get better you discard gear that helped you along the way. I know it is easy (and reassuring) to say "my chain is pure so I can say it is as good as it gets and whatever difference you hear is my room or the recording" but lets face it, if it doesn't sound real then what is the point? Just some random thoughts here. Another point is sometimes you give up true realism on bass to have great midrange, sometimes you give up ultimate flat response to gain soundstage, etc... I'm not busting on your comments or anything, just saying the given audiophile rules of thumb sometimes annoys me. What really matters is what it sounded like before and after you try something. Also, we should also realize that with the next upgrade it may be necessary to rethink the whole system to achieve the best sound. Usually that hurts the wallet as well as the ego. Sorry, just rambling here.
madmax

burdette

No offense taken, and never a problem if opinions differ. I don't pretend to be a minimalist in terms of audio.. i.e. minimal components in any signal path, no tone controls, etc. Frankly, the limitation on my signal path components is due primarily to limitations on the cash in my wallet. I do, however, believe that if you buy good speakers in the first place, there is very little need for tone controls. Depending on room and specific source, I may occasionally use the bass or treble control.. but they are, 99% of the time, flat.

Stating a fact such as "the sound is artificial" isn't also a judgement that it is a bad thing. Funny, my wife and I talk about this too... NOT saying something that *is* true doesn't make it NOT true. Mostly with that post, I was giving information on what I strongly believe that component is doing. If the component *changes* the characteristics of the signal.. it does.. fact. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, certainly, is up to the individual. But, that the signal reaching the speakers is fundamentally different from the way it was laid down is not up for debate.

Similar would be listening to Dolby encoded tapes with no decoding. Many people think they gain high frequency response when in reality they're hearing high frequency tape hiss. Sure, maybe they like the sound better than decoding... but that doesn't change the facts about the characteristics of the signal.

Not any sort of problem at all.. just discussion.

madmax

Originally posted by burdette
Stating a fact such as "the sound is artificial" isn't also a judgement that it is a bad thing. Funny, my wife and I talk about this too... NOT saying something that *is* true doesn't make it NOT true. Mostly with that post, I was giving information on what I strongly believe that component is doing. If the component *changes* the characteristics of the signal.. it does.. fact. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, certainly, is up to the individual. But, that the signal reaching the speakers is fundamentally different from the way it was laid down is not up for debate.

There is the old argument that what is coming from the source should not be changed before it enters the speaker. I'm just saying there is a whole other argument which is that what was delivered to the source (live) should enter your ears. Heh heh.
madmax

Ceruleance

Discussed this before:

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7914&highlight=dynamic+range+expander