Noob to separates needs help

cambir
cambir Posts: 1,045
edited February 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
My first attempt with separates is not going well. Can somebody please help? I have tried a few things, and seem to be eliminating everything as the problem...that's not possible! Any suggestions appreciated.

The setup:
Carver CT-28v
Carver MV-5
Adcom gfa-535L
Polk Monitor 5

The issue:
Distorted, muffled "music" with popping sounds in time with music.

Troubleshooting attempts:
Swapped pre with an Onkyo pre - no change
Swapped pre with Yamaha avr - no change
Tried A & B speaker terminals on amp - no change
Swapped ICs - no change
Swapped a speaker - no change
Tried connecting cd to different inputs on pre - no change
Tried connecting amp direct to variable out of another cd player without using a separate pre - music seems to play fine
Post edited by cambir on
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Comments

  • MANSKITO
    MANSKITO Posts: 295
    edited February 2010
    Looks like its your amp. Swap that out if you can. Seems to be the only thing you have not swapped out.
    Monitor 60s, CS10 front
    Monitor 40s, back
    PSW10:(

    H/k AVR 325
    Sansui Tape Deck
    Pioneer PD-5010 CD player

    Sennheiser HD 650s :D
    Maverick Audio Tube Magic D1 DAC

    AMD Phenom II 940 @ 3.8 prime stabel
    4 gigs 1066, cas 5
    XFX 4890 1gig
    Seagate 1tb 7200.12
    Creative X-fI Titanium Fatal1ty
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2010
    Roger-dodger.

    How does the system sound using the Yammie AVR in place of the pre and amp?
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    MANSKITO wrote: »
    Looks like its your amp. Swap that out if you can. Seems to be the only thing you have not swapped out.

    That's what I thought until I got the amp working fine through the variable out of a cd player. I would think if it was the amp, it wouldn't work regardless?
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Roger-dodger.

    How does the system sound using the Yammie AVR in place of the pre and amp?

    I only tried it as a replacement to the Carver pre (connected the adcom to the pre-out of the avr). But, the Yammie has no known issues.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited February 2010
    Distorted, muffled "music" with popping sounds in time with music.

    I'd lean towards bad caps or bad output devices in the amp.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    I'd lean towards bad caps or bad output devices in the amp.

    F1 - could this type of problem still allow proper sound when using the amp straight through the cd player (without a pre)?
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,151
    edited February 2010
    Try taking the woofers out and see if the spider is still glued to the metal baskets.

    I noticed you haven't tried another speaker set.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    tony millard wrote: »
    Try taking the woofers out and see if the spider is still glued to the metal baskets.

    I noticed you haven't tried another speaker set.

    I haven't swapped a set of speakers, but did swap an RT35i into the mix. I got the same result. And, just to be sure, I tried the Monitor 5 on another setup and they sound fine.
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  • MANSKITO
    MANSKITO Posts: 295
    edited February 2010
    cambir wrote: »
    That's what I thought until I got the amp working fine through the variable out of a cd player. I would think if it was the amp, it wouldn't work regardless?

    Nah m8 almost anything and everything can fail part of the way. Very few things work 100% or 0% I know this from working on computers, just because something POSTs(power on self test) dose not mean it works 100%, same thing with your amp. If you just power your speakers by a AVR and the problem gos away, its your amp.
    Monitor 60s, CS10 front
    Monitor 40s, back
    PSW10:(

    H/k AVR 325
    Sansui Tape Deck
    Pioneer PD-5010 CD player

    Sennheiser HD 650s :D
    Maverick Audio Tube Magic D1 DAC

    AMD Phenom II 940 @ 3.8 prime stabel
    4 gigs 1066, cas 5
    XFX 4890 1gig
    Seagate 1tb 7200.12
    Creative X-fI Titanium Fatal1ty
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    It's the CD PLAYER!

    The analog outs on the Carver cd player are causing the issue. We figured it out at the Seattle meet this weekend. Any suggestions on why this might be or what to do about it? Besides contacting Rita's.
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited February 2010
    That's bizarre. Op amps in the CDP?
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited February 2010
    Cam, I'm guessing that the cdp has a digital out? Just get yourself a good DAC and use the digital out instead of the analog. Problem solved and you'll get a better sound to boot.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited February 2010
    Which Carver CDP do you have?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    which carver cdp do you have?

    mv-5
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    That's bizarre. Op amps in the CDP?

    Can you dumb that down for me?
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    daboyz wrote: »
    Cam, I'm guessing that the cdp has a digital out? Just get yourself a good DAC and use the digital out instead of the analog. Problem solved and you'll get a better sound to boot.

    Wanted to use the player in my main system, but have a zone 2 powered by this system. Only analog signals will transfer to the zone 2. Would a DAC still work in this situation?
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    Anybody have any other ideas? Or, can anyone explain the suggestions above...especially op amps?
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    cambir wrote: »
    Wanted to use the player in my main system, but have a zone 2 powered by this system. Only analog signals will transfer to the zone 2. Would a DAC still work in this situation?

    A DAC takes a digital signal and converts it to analog. So whatever receives the zone 2 signal will be recieving analog signal.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited February 2010
    cambir wrote: »
    Anybody have any other ideas? Or, can anyone explain the suggestions above...especially op amps?

    Op amps are the chip based amplification in the output section of the
    CDP. They are normally soldered in. PITA to replace.
    This unit isn't worth the trouble. Using an external DAC might work ok,
    or maybe not. It could be a power supply issue, which case all the outputs
    may be less than good. Time for a look around for a suitable replacement
    unit.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • coolsax
    coolsax Posts: 1,824
    edited February 2010
    +1 you'll hook it up

    CDP---digital--->DAC---analog--->zone 2
    Main 2ch -
    BlueSound Node->Ethereal optical cable->Peachtree Audio Nova 150->GoldenEar Triton 2+
    TT - Pro-ject Classic SB with Sumiko Bluepoint.

    TV 3.1 system -
    Denon 3500 -> Dynaudio Excite 32/22
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    concealer404 wrote: »
    A DAC takes a digital signal and converts it to analog. So whatever receives the zone 2 signal will be recieving analog signal.

    Cool. Knew what it would do on a basic level, just wasn't sure if it would have an effect on zone 2 operation. Still need to keep everything simple. Can a DAC be found really small and really cheap? Are they always on, or do they have a power switch?
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    cambir wrote: »
    Cool. Knew what it would do on a basic level, just wasn't sure if it would have an effect on zone 2 operation. Still need to keep everything simple. Can a DAC be found really small and really cheap? Are they always on, or do they have a power switch?

    You can find an entry level Dac for $100-$150. Always on vs. power switch, it just depends on the DAC.

    Honestly? I'd look into getting the cdp repaired or replaced, unless you're willing to take the gamble that the optical output still works. It may not.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Op amps are the chip based amplification in the output section of the
    CDP. They are normally soldered in. PITA to replace.
    This unit isn't worth the trouble. Using an external DAC might work ok,
    or maybe not. It could be a power supply issue, which case all the outputs
    may be less than good. Time for a look around for a suitable replacement
    unit.

    The dig out seems to work fine and produces very nice sound.

    Although I'm mostly against sinking the $175 into Rita's (little more than I want to spend on a cd player), but would it be worth looking for an independent repair person/shop?
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    concealer404 wrote: »
    You can find an entry level Dac for $100-$150. Always on vs. power switch, it just depends on the DAC.

    Honestly? I'd look into getting the cdp repaired or replaced, unless you're willing to take the gamble that the optical output still works. It may not.

    No optical, just dig coax. What is the "gamble" if I use the dig out?
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    cambir wrote: »
    No optical, just dig coax. What is the "gamble" if I use the dig out?

    Oh... the gamble was whether or not it would work. :p Seems i missed the part where you said it did, my apologies.

    Then by all means, go for a DAC, it'll work.

    There's a nice Audio Alchemy piece on Audiogon for $165obo right now. It's a DDE v1.1 with a custom built power supply. Pretty decent unit for that entry level price. :D
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • cambir
    cambir Posts: 1,045
    edited February 2010
    concealer404 wrote: »
    Oh... the gamble was whether or not it would work. :p Seems i missed the part where you said it did, my apologies.

    Then by all means, go for a DAC, it'll work.

    There's a nice Audio Alchemy piece on Audiogon for $165obo right now. It's a DDE v1.1 with a custom built power supply. Pretty decent unit for that entry level price. :D

    Is that an entry-level price for DACs in general or is that just a good deal on a nice DAC?
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    It's a good deal on a nice sounding entry level DAC. :)

    But yes, i'd consider that entry-level territory.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    edited February 2010
    Your cdp should be a decent source so definitely look for a DAC. I really like my Adcom GDA-600 which could be had for about that price.
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