Higher Gauge, lower volume ?

Dan2036
Dan2036 Posts: 148
edited February 2010 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I just upgraded to 12 Gauge speaker wire from 16. Every since then I feel the volume isn't as loud as it was, i rechecked the connections and everything's tight. Just wondering if this is even possible or it's all in my mind.
TV- Samsung 24" LCD T240HD
5.1 Receiver - Harman/Kardon AVR 247
Stereo Receiver - Harman/Kardon 3390
Front - Monitor 60
Center - Cs10
Surround - Tsi100
Sub - SVS PB10-NSD :D
Playstation 3
Post edited by Dan2036 on
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,184
    edited February 2010
    Hmmmm, that's unlikely. Have you verified that all drivers are working in all speakers?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,457
    edited February 2010
    You may actually be hearing an improvement in the sound quality... but seeing as though wires don't matter, ;)...


    Congrats on the upgrade!
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Dan2036
    Dan2036 Posts: 148
    edited February 2010
    Ya all the drivers are working, I just felt during movies and music i feel i'm lacking the power i had, sound quality doesn't seem to have changed. Probably in my head then.
    TV- Samsung 24" LCD T240HD
    5.1 Receiver - Harman/Kardon AVR 247
    Stereo Receiver - Harman/Kardon 3390
    Front - Monitor 60
    Center - Cs10
    Surround - Tsi100
    Sub - SVS PB10-NSD :D
    Playstation 3
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,184
    edited February 2010
    Well, that's a little odd to me that you would mention a decrease in volume. When I was in your shoes, I noticed a slightly [and I do mean slightly] better top end and bass that was a little more authoritative and the presence of bass/mid-bass was improved. Bass was also tightened up a bit.

    The last thing I would expect you to observe would be a decrease in volume.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Dan2036
    Dan2036 Posts: 148
    edited February 2010
    Ya that's what i was thinking, could it be the quality of the wire ? Metra electronics Raptor speaker wire, pretty cheap price wise but the quality seems pretty good and the reviews on amazon were great.
    TV- Samsung 24" LCD T240HD
    5.1 Receiver - Harman/Kardon AVR 247
    Stereo Receiver - Harman/Kardon 3390
    Front - Monitor 60
    Center - Cs10
    Surround - Tsi100
    Sub - SVS PB10-NSD :D
    Playstation 3
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited February 2010
    A change in sound characteristics might be what you're experiencing, and that might sound like a change in volume. A less bright sound could be thought of as less "loud" and harsh, for example. But otherwise, no, I've not noticed a change in volume with a change in cables. On the other hand, I don't really pay attention to dial position or volume level that much -- I just turn it up to where it sounds right.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
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  • Dan2036
    Dan2036 Posts: 148
    edited February 2010
    If it doesn't sound loud but the volume is up relatively loud can I be hurting the speaker, or any other component ?
    TV- Samsung 24" LCD T240HD
    5.1 Receiver - Harman/Kardon AVR 247
    Stereo Receiver - Harman/Kardon 3390
    Front - Monitor 60
    Center - Cs10
    Surround - Tsi100
    Sub - SVS PB10-NSD :D
    Playstation 3
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,184
    edited February 2010
    Without being there and actually hearing it? I couldn't tell you.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,457
    edited February 2010
    no... you may actually be doing a good thing for them. Check all your connections to make absolutely certain that all is well and enjoy for a while. It can take some time for things to "burn in" but once they do and you get used to the sound you may like the differences, or not. If you don't then you can try something else, but if it sounds right to you then so much the better.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Dan2036
    Dan2036 Posts: 148
    edited February 2010
    Well for people with H/K receivers it's at -20db which is pretty high up but it just doesn't sound loud.
    TV- Samsung 24" LCD T240HD
    5.1 Receiver - Harman/Kardon AVR 247
    Stereo Receiver - Harman/Kardon 3390
    Front - Monitor 60
    Center - Cs10
    Surround - Tsi100
    Sub - SVS PB10-NSD :D
    Playstation 3
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,184
    edited February 2010
    Dan2036 wrote: »
    If it doesn't sound loud but the volume is up relatively loud can I be hurting the speaker, or any other component ?
    So long as you are not cranking the volume to where you hear unnatural artifacts or distortion? No.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited February 2010
    Try your old wire again...see if you get the same results.
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
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    Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,184
    edited February 2010
    Ah, good suggestion.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Dan2036
    Dan2036 Posts: 148
    edited February 2010
    I will try Midnite Mick's suggestion, however there is no distortion or any unnatural artifacts.
    TV- Samsung 24" LCD T240HD
    5.1 Receiver - Harman/Kardon AVR 247
    Stereo Receiver - Harman/Kardon 3390
    Front - Monitor 60
    Center - Cs10
    Surround - Tsi100
    Sub - SVS PB10-NSD :D
    Playstation 3
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited February 2010
    Did you accidently wire some speakers out of phase; +/- reversed at one end.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
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    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Dan2036
    Dan2036 Posts: 148
    edited February 2010
    Just rechecked no wires are all going where they need to go
    TV- Samsung 24" LCD T240HD
    5.1 Receiver - Harman/Kardon AVR 247
    Stereo Receiver - Harman/Kardon 3390
    Front - Monitor 60
    Center - Cs10
    Surround - Tsi100
    Sub - SVS PB10-NSD :D
    Playstation 3
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  • TouchOfEvil
    TouchOfEvil Posts: 967
    edited February 2010
    I'd try to swap out your old wire on one speaker and see if it gets louder.
    Living Room Rig:D
    Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
    Xbox360/PS3/WII
    M.Br. setup:)
    Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
    Computer Rig:
    Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
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  • mjcmt
    mjcmt Posts: 44
    edited February 2010
    Dan2036 wrote: »
    I just upgraded to 12 Gauge speaker wire from 16. Every since then I feel the volume isn't as loud as it was, i rechecked the connections and everything's tight. Just wondering if this is even possible or it's all in my mind.

    With higher gage cabling it sounds quieter for 2 reasons.
    1.) You are having a more balance sound so the highs are seeming less forward. The psycho-acoustic effect is it that it doesn't sound as loud.
    2.) The lows are able to draw more current, because of the heavier gage wire (instead of being choked w/ thin wire) and taxing your amps PS further.
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  • xrapidx
    xrapidx Posts: 73
    edited February 2010
    I've noticed the same 'quieter' volume - but it seems to depends on the sound mode I'm running.
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  • xrapidx
    xrapidx Posts: 73
    edited February 2010
    well - I personally don't believe a $100 cable and a $6000 dollar cable makes a difference of $5900 - but I can notice the difference between my old HTIB speaker cables, and my old set of monster cables.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,729
    edited February 2010
    xrapidx wrote: »
    well - I personally don't believe a $100 cable and a $6000 dollar cable makes a difference of $5900 - but I can notice the difference between my old HTIB speaker cables, and my old set of monster cables.

    Ever tried $6K speaker cables?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited February 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ever tried $6K speaker cables?

    he he...:) I knew that was coming.:D
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  • AudioGenics
    AudioGenics Posts: 2,567
    edited February 2010
    I would suggest
    to use a couple of different test samples.
    perhaps
    Using a tone generator and a sound pressure meter

    for example using the definition of "volume" to be equal to SPL as measured in DB.
    getting measurements from the 16 vs 12 guage.
    also what is the distance or length or wire that is being used ?
    what connectors are used ?
    etc....
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,055
    edited February 2010
    Dan2036 wrote: »
    Well for people with H/K receivers it's at -20db which is pretty high up but it just doesn't sound loud.

    Yeah that's very loud!!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    You might be realizing a taming of the highs i.e. less brightness.

    LOL @ Jesse!
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  • halo71
    halo71 Posts: 4,604
    edited February 2010
    Well I can say from recent experience that with changing to Monitor 10's, using a HK AVR as a pre, using my Integra again after several years. I noticed what I thought was a decrease in volume/power. But after many more hours of listening, I am chalking it up to the **** wore out speakers that I had before. That were way too bright in the upper end, and required way to much power outta my sub to even things out...to my ears anyways.

    Now I find I am continuing to turn down my subs volume and crossover, (wish it was remote controlled!) turning tone controls on AVR to flat, was bypassing EQ but have since disconnected it.

    So now....seems like things are playing at a lower volume. But its really a more even keal across the whole stage. I enjoy the sound more. Everything seems smoother. And even my wife says it sounds better. So with that I know I am headed it the right direction! :D But is anything, I think I am still using the same power. Probably even more. I just think its being put to a better more efficient use now. If that make any sense. lol
    --Gary--
    Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out.
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  • xrapidx
    xrapidx Posts: 73
    edited February 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Ever tried $6K speaker cables?

    Fair enough :) (no)

    But I have tried $100 and $500 dollar cables, and can't notice the difference, but then again - I'm still new at this.

    P.S. Feel free to send me $6k speaker cables to test if I can hear the difference :D
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    xrapidx wrote: »
    Fair enough :) (no)

    But I have tried $100 and $500 dollar cables, and can't notice the difference, but then again - I'm still new at this.

    P.S. Feel free to send me $6k speaker cables to test if I can hear the difference :D

    Not casting aspersions but I find this hard to believe but then again we have a resident cable naysayer who says he has tried different levels of cables and heard no difference. :eek::eek::eek:

    Which $500 cables have you tried? What cables did you put them against and what gear did you use to make the comparison?

    Not busting your balls, just curious.:)

    LOL! @ your P.S., I would love to have someone provide me with a $6k speaker cable to try out in my rig . . . don't we all!:D
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  • xrapidx
    xrapidx Posts: 73
    edited February 2010
    Recently actually - My current cables are around $100 for 2.5m - a friend loaned me his $500-odd (for 2m) cables before I found what I'd done with mine, (they'd been moved by the maid). I only know the price of his because he told me not to stuff them up :p

    So - it was on my current setup of RTi A9's and Onkyo TX-NR807.

    Mine are a set of Monster speaker cables I bought about a year ago - I'll have to check which ones.

    His were Atas (or something like that).

    Remember - I'm new at this - so might not know what to listen for.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    xrapidx wrote: »
    Recently actually - My current cables are around $100 for 2.5m - a friend loaned me his $500-odd (for 2m) cables before I found what I'd done with mine, (they'd been moved by the maid). I only know the price of his because he told me not to stuff them up :p

    So - it was on my current setup of RTi A9's and Onkyo TX-NR807.

    Mine are a set of Monster speaker cables I bought about a year ago - I'll have to check which ones.

    His were Atas (or something like that).

    Remember - I'm new at this - so might not know what to listen for.

    Rule of thumb; if it sounds good to you and makes you smile when listening then, there you go and that's all that matters.
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