In other automotive news: Man cleaves new Camaro in half...walks away

comfortablycurt

Firebirds and Camaro's have a long history of splitting in half like that in heavy frontal collisions. It's due to the uni-body construction.

I see they haven't changed much.

Matt34

Must have missed it's crumple zone.:D

devani

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Firebirds and Camaro's have a long history of splitting in half like that in heavy frontal collisions. It's due to the uni-body construction.

I see they haven't changed much.

then it's not uni-body;)

BeRad

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Firebirds and Camaro's have a long history of splitting in half like that in heavy frontal collisions. It's due to the uni-body construction.

I see they haven't changed much.

Most cars are Uni-body now.

sandworms

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I saved this image and am looking at it on a much larger format. It is clear that the car separated along the welds in the roof area. The car is also splayed open across the front rather than the front fenders being pulled in towards each other as would be expected. Even the firewall and I-beam inside the dash are ripped in half. I understand a bit about the forces insolved from having been at the scene of perhaps 1000 wrecks. It is clear to me that this car FAILED it's primary design purpose of protecting the passenger. GM dodged a bullet here that nobody was killed, but it does have deeper implications as to the quality of the new Camaro and how many more are out there with poorly welded body structures.

I didn't know any manufacturer attempted to design a car to withstand frontal collisions at well over "safe" and intelligent speeds. I don't see a "failure " in design, i see an incomparable scenerio, as you of all people should know having witnessed a variety of accidents, where a manufacturer built a car for pedestrian driving at speeds at least close to the posted limit.

nooshinjohn

sandworms wrote: »

I didn't know any manufacturer attempted to design a car to withstand frontal collisions at well over "safe" and intelligent speeds. I don't see a "failure " in design, i see an incomparable scenerio, as you of all people should know having witnessed a variety of accidents, where a manufacturer built a car for pedestrian driving at speeds at least close to the posted limit.

I shared this picture with a structural engineer at the plant. He stated that it looked to him that the car sustained greater damage than would reasonably be expected, but without actually examining the wreckage personally, it is hard to say. In the tests they subject them to in the plant(Subaru) they find that the steel will rip before the welds give way. The pictures do not give him enough information to say one way or the other. He did agree with everyone the the driver should stop texting while driving and buy lottery tickets instead.

dave shepard

I have done autobody on all these cars for over 20yrs and I see most of the new auto's we (USA) have been building lately are total crap. There are no standards on spot weld size and how many per panel. The metal is thinner to save weight and has been replaced with stiffening creases in the panels some have chosen to put two or three real thin pieces of steel together instead of just putting one thick piece. The impact either side or under reinforcements or roof reinforcements have either been shortened or removed to save weight and cost we even have placed nothing but plastic in to take the steels place.
Now the BMW's, VOLVO's, Jags, Benz, Saab etc. have far better metal then we would even think of using and that is a shame.

Dave

mopar paul

Heres another link, it appears the car hit the pole on the right side vs dead in the middle, but I cannot believe it broke apart like that. I too have been to hundreds of wrecks and never seen a car split down the middle-in half yes, but not in the middle!:eek:
http://jalopnik.com/5461574/camaro-s...otos/gallery/2

nooshinjohn

Another wrecked Camaro into a pole of some kind... I have no details, but it looks to me like these cars pretty much explode when they wreck. I wanted one, but I think I will look for something a bit safer. The angle of impact looks pretty similar to the car we have been discussing.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/07/2010-camaro-wreck2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D696895&usg=__Xjd-EMkM1-hIs3HZRXbHuOC9CNY=&h=604&w=804&sz=211&hl=en&start=198&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=_MKc836hSylUuM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3D2010%2Bcamaro%2Bss%2Bcrash%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4ADBS_enUS275US276%26sa%3DN%26start%3D180%26um%3D1

bigaudiofanatic

NotaSuv wrote: »

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

You got that right. I side swiped a dhl truck I walked away the car will it did it's job. I was doing about 90 passing him when he turned. Ya that camaro should of stayed together more.


You were doing 90 and passing in what looks like a residential area? :eek:

Nope was a main road

greg2350

"He walked away" I dont see what all the fuss is about. I dont know the facts but the conclusion seems to be the car was going about 100mph. Run any car into a telephone pole at 100mph and the results would probally be the same. It looks like to me the car splitting like that is what saved his arse...

exalted512

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Another wrecked Camaro into a pole of some kind... I have no details, but it looks to me like these cars pretty much explode when they wreck. I wanted one, but I think I will look for something a bit safer. The angle of impact looks pretty similar to the car we have been discussing.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/07/2010-camaro-wreck2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D696895&usg=__Xjd-EMkM1-hIs3HZRXbHuOC9CNY=&h=604&w=804&sz=211&hl=en&start=198&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=_MKc836hSylUuM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3D2010%2Bcamaro%2Bss%2Bcrash%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4ADBS_enUS275US276%26sa%3DN%26start%3D180%26um%3D1

Seriously? Look at the passenger compartment. The windshield doesnt even appear to be cracked. It looks like the crumple zone did what it was supposed to and the passenger compartment held up like it was supposed to.

Oh, and that'll buff right out.
-Cody

bobman1235

exalted512 wrote: »

Seriously? Look at the passenger compartment. The windshield doesnt even appear to be cracked. It looks like the crumple zone did what it was supposed to and the passenger compartment held up like it was supposed to.

On what planet? Crumple zones are supposed to crumple to soften the shock due to deceleration to the driver, not disintegrate. As mentioned, if there were a passenger in that car they'd look like something hanging ina butcher shop. Vehicle safety systems don't favor the driver THAT much; if everything "worked like it was supposed to", I'd hate to be the passenger in a car you designed.

concealer404

None of my cars have airbags, and the seatbelts don't work correctly in two of them.

Who wants a ride?

Ricardo

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I drive a Jaguar

You forgot to mention that you were a marine.

exalted512

bobman1235 wrote: »

On what planet? Crumple zones are supposed to crumple to soften the shock due to deceleration to the driver, not disintegrate. As mentioned, if there were a passenger in that car they'd look like something hanging ina butcher shop. Vehicle safety systems don't favor the driver THAT much; if everything "worked like it was supposed to", I'd hate to be the passenger in a car you designed.

go back and read my post champ. were talking about 2 different cars.
-Cody

bobman1235

Whoops. Touche.

comfortablycurt

I don't understand why everyones saying that cars crumple zones failed and all that.

He hit a telephone pole going NINETY MILES AN HOUR! You hit a phone pole in any car going that fast, and the outcome is going to be similar. The fact that the driver walked away speaks a lot about just how safe that car is. No cars crash test rating applies to 90 mph full frontal collisions.

That being said, Camaro's and Firebirds have an extensive history of splitting like this in full frontal collisions. They aren't exactly the safest cars that have ever been made.

bigaudiofanatic

Your still not getting it, other cars even at that speed would SPLIT THE POLE not the car in half.

audiobliss

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

Your still not getting it, other cars even at that speed would SPLIT THE POLE not the car in half.

If you're going to keep harking on this one, solitary point...and you seem to be operating under the assumption that it's an obvious fact...why don't you inundate us with about a hundred pictures WITH confirmable stories of cars chopping phone poles down at 300mph with only a chip in the windshield?

comfortablycurt

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

Your still not getting it, other cars even at that speed would SPLIT THE POLE not the car in half.

It all depends on the circumstances. Perhaps that's a brand new pole that's only been there for a few months, with a bunch of fresh concrete holding it in.

Yes...phone poles get knocked over in car accidents sometimes(it happened to one of my friends once actually), but it's not as if that absolutely has to happen every single time without exception. From the looks of it, the Camaro didn't hit it completely dead on, but rather as it was turning. This would have lessened the impact on the pole drastically.

mmadden28

The driver walked away, but I can't imagine what kind of internal injuries, esp the brain, that he may still have. At the speed he must have been traveling and the obvious rapid deceleration, the innards would keep moving forward (a little thing called inertia).
Honestly I'm shocked nobody talked the guy into going to the hospital to get checked out. I didn't know the Police Drs. on scene had portable xray/MRIs with them now.

bobman1235

I'm guessing he had brain damage BEFORE the crash to be going that fast in that area

mmadden28

Why don't they have a pic of the passenger compartment for crying out loud. A wreck like that and they only have 4 pics?

mmadden28

Is that pole wood? It looks like it could be metal. ???

audiobliss

mmadden28 wrote: »

Is that pole wood? It looks like it could be metal. ???

I originally thought that as well, but upon closer inspection of the tiny photos I'm really not sure.

Jstas

audiobliss wrote: »

If you're going to keep harking on this one, solitary point...and you seem to be operating under the assumption that it's an obvious fact...why don't you inundate us with about a hundred pictures WITH confirmable stories of cars chopping phone poles down at 300mph with only a chip in the windshield?

'Cause he can't.


Number one, I do not see these "failed welds" that nooshinjohn is talking about. The car exploded the metal on impact and shredded it. Even if I was at that accident, I would have a hard time determining what actually failed. So would the investigators I think. That's likely why it's still under investigation.

Number two, bigaudiofanatic, your experience with your gross negligence in operation of a motor vehicle concerning your Civic and it's collision with a DHL truck is not comparable to the situation. Neither is your experience at a drag race (legal or otherwise). Very different scenarios, very different cars. As for your other "experience", perusing the Civic message boards and oogling the photographic evidence of other owners and their equally gross negligence in operation of a motor vehicle does not qualify you as an accident investigator. It also does not qualify you to be able to critique a design at an engineering level.

Number three, this "structural engineer" cannot seem to make a conclusive deduction from the given photographs yet you, in your admitted lower level of knowledge of the subject of structural engineering, can. How's that?

Number four, it bares repeating. I have seen a Pontiac Fiero travel the length of a guardrail and strip the rail off of the uprights like a zipcord. I have also seen a Mitsubishi/Fuso cabover box van be stopped dead in it's tracks by a similar guard rail. I have seen a Firebird run into the back of a pickup truck at 70+ MPH. The pickup truck sustained a flat tire and a bent bumper. The Firebird driver needed to be cut out of the car and airlifted to the hospital. I don't care what your mind thinks should happen. Physics defines many factors in an accident. Everything from friction levels to slip angles to direction of momentary force, each accident has different affects with an almost infinite number of combinations. Different vehicles behave differently. Bottom line. Comparing them does not work.

Lastly, the Camaro originally posted and then posted a second time, rather redundantly (thanks mopar paul, way to be on the ball!) is decidedly messed up. If it wasn't for the rear shots, you wouldn't really know it was a Camaro. It hit the pole head on traveling at a high velocity. It did not hit the pole dead center. If it did, the outcome would have been different and the pole likely would have broken. But the Camaro hit the pole on a right side bias. The heavy engine and transmission braced by the rest of the driveline missed the pole. This means that a good amount of the mass of the driveline and car missed the pole and continued on, dragging the rest of the car with it as it tried to pass. At the same time, the pole's path was angular and not directly front to back. It seems the pole was exiting the vehicle at the front of the passenger side door when the firewall failed. At that point it looks that the passenger side of the car was being peeled off by the pole.

For evidence of what I am seeing, check out the engine. That's the right side sub-frame rail in front of it. The engine is still mounted to the frame rails. That pole contacted outside of the frame rail and traveled down the right side of the car popping off fenders, suspension parts and even door frames until the pole hit the firewall and glance off. If there was a passenger, they would have been very injured but I don't think they would have died from contacting the pole because I don't think thier body would have hit the pole.

Either way, this accident was due to gross negligence in operation of a motor vehicle. I only posted the pictures and article for others to see the impressive wreck. I didn't ask for uneducated opinions being past off as fact nor did I ask for this to turn in to a "how much American cars suck" fest again. None of you are qualified to make the observations you have and neither am I which is why I just posted it and left it as that. What happened and how the car's safety features performed is not up to us. The people who are trained and know what they are looking at are on the case and will figure it out if they haven't already. Stop with the petty attacks and passing off opinion as fact. You people really know how to ruin a thread, you know that?


Oh and cars, fundamentally, aren't safe. They are multi-ton masses of metal moving down the road at high speeds. When they impact each other or something solid, physics is not in their favor. They are metal, you are a fleshy meatbag. Physics is not even concerned with you in that circumstance. You're just a wee bit more of watery mass that means the car will rotate one way instead of the other after it impacts the pole. Safety standards are tested to the national standard. That national standard is not 90+ MPH. If you impact a structure at that speed, results cannot be guaranteed. Cars are not perfect and their safety systems are not infallible. They do have a point where capability is exceeded by stupidity. Judging every single American car based on weak assumptions, limited experience and poor judgment just makes you look like an ****. Have a nice day.

Serendipity

I still really like the new Mustang and Camaro.

LessisNevermore

Ricardo wrote: »

You forgot to mention that you were a marine.

No he usually blames the Marine in him......not sure if it's the same.:D

Chadworkz

nooshinjohn, wow, I have never seen such idiotic ignorance...I swear you are acting like an immature Ford/Mustang lover who absolutely hates Chevrolet/Camaros, and will do/say whatever it takes to try and make them look/seem horrible. Or, you are a hardcore import lover with a hate for all American cars, especially those in the performance category. It is obvious that you are going out of your way trying to destroy the Camaro's reputation. You seriously need to chill...nothing you have said has made and sort of sense or has any fact or truth to it...in fact, you're not even trying to figure out what really happened and the circumstances behind it (nor do you care), you are simply using this thread as a method to *diss* the Camaro.

The Pole: It is clearly steel, and due to city regulations, it is buried deep into the ground in a concrete cavity with a steel reinforcement base (and may be partially filled with concrete). They are done this way, literally made NOT to break/fall, in order to keep any power lines connected to it or in the vicinity safe, as well as any buildings or other properties safe. If the pole fails and then falls, not only would power and/or other services be lost, there would also be dangerous live-wires laying on the ground, as well as damage to any property that the pole hit when it fell, and possibly electrocution to people close by. My Point is, the pole was made NOT to fail/fall.

The Car/Damage: Clearly there is nothing "fishy" going on...the car hit the pole (described above) at a high rate of speed, and since the pole was made not to fail, something else had to, and that something else was the car. Looking at all four images, the car survived relatively well, except in the front where the impact took place. Also, the majority of, if not all of, the *peeling back* of the metal was done during extraction of the driver...you can clearly see evidence of the Jaws of Life and Hydraulic Spreaders.

The Driver: When it says, "the driver walked away", it doesn't mean that he just simply got out of the car and walked away immediately after the wreck, it simply means that after he was extracted, he was not seriously injured, and was able to motivate under his own power (walk). Plus, I am sure he was checked out at the scene, and then transported to the hospital for further examination.

Jeeze people, some of you seriously need to use some of the common sense that God gave you.