Receiver setup?

Twinkill

I just got my first Home theater speakers and receivers and wanted some help with setting up the receiver. I was able to get a steller deal on some Polks, but I'm a relative newbie as this is my first HT set. Right now I've setup the front, center, and sub. I plan to install the rear surrounds but haven't totally decided on 5.1 or 7.1. My wife prefers I go with 5.1 b/c of the sheer size of the surrounds. Anybody have any suggestions on what the receiver settings should be or any other basic setup suggestions?

Also does anybody have any thoughs on my receiver selection I was hoping to not have to get a seperate amp to power these guys, so I went with the below receiver as a suggestion from a buddy of mine.

Right now when I look at the Speaker Config menu I have it set as:
Subwoofer: Yes
Front: Full Band
Center: 40Hz (Is this the optimal Hz setting for the center channel?)
LPF of LFE: 90Hz (Is this the correct or optimal setting? I wasn't sure if this was correct)
DoubleBass: On

Any thoughts and or opinions would be helpful...I'm relatively new to all this.

I currently have the below setup:
LSi 15s
LSi/C
DSW Pro 600
I have 2 pairs of the LSi F/X but haven't set them up and I may only install 1 pair of them as my wife doesn't really want me to install the 2nd pair

Integra DTR 8.9 Receiver.

John K.

TK, welcome to Club Polk. The first suggestion is to use the Audyssey auto-setup provision in your DTR 8.9 rather than making manual settings at random. Your LSi15s have good response to below 40Hz, so a full-band setting wouldn't be unreasonable, but you have a fine sub in the DSW Pro 600 which does an even better job in the low bass. To allow it to handle what it does best and take some of the load off the speakers, set all your speakers for an 80Hz crossover and don't use "Double Bass", which has the sub and mains duplicating the lowest bass.

The setting of the LPF of LFE isn't really critical. The LFE channel which contains low frequency effects which are occasionally present in movies theoretically extends to 120Hz, so some would set the LPF to 120Hz to cover the full channel. In practice, however, little or nothing above about 80Hz is mixed into the LFE(and most is much lower), so others would set the LPF at 80Hz to reduce any random noise that might be higher up. Either way, the setting is no big deal.

If you have a fair amount of space(say at least 4')behind the listening position for a rear sound field to form, the 7.1 setup with back surround speakers can be useful. If you go with only the side surrounds in a 5.1 setup, position them a couple feet farther back than directly to the side, to lend a little more "back" effect in the absence of rear speakers.

Your 8.9 has a quite powerful amplifier and your LSi15s are average in sensitivity, so you should have all the maximum power capacity you'll need for listening at levels which won't cause you permanent hearing damage. Enjoy.

wutadumsn23

+1 on what John said, very good post. The only thing I would add is to make sure you have the room for 7.1. If your room isn't big enough to allow for a 7.1, IMHO a properly setup 5.1 will outperform a cramped up 7.1 on anyday. That Integra seems to have a decent amount of powerm, but I would still be careful with the volume knob as the LSi's are 4 Ohm speakers and that Integra, although it does appear to be "rated" for 4 Ohm loads, most AVR's out there won't power 4 Ohm speakers to their potential. You could also look into external amplification if you find the sound "lacking" from the Integra, since it has pre outs. Adcom, Sunfire, Rotel and Emotiva make the short list for amps. Good luck and welcome to Club Polk.

-Jeff

cnh

WELCOME TO CLUB POLK!

+1,

You will need a power amp to really hear what those LSis are capable of. They are very POWER hungry speakers.

I've heard them run off a Pioneer Elite AVR...and it did 'nothing' for them...not enough POWER. They sounded flat and lifeless.

Any of the amps Jeff suggests above would be fine..listen to a few.

I'd add Cambridge Audio, Nad, and Parasound and B&K to the list!

Enjoy.

cnh

Twinkill

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll try out the Audyssey auto-setup and see how it sounds. I was going to wait until I got my rears up but the wife wants to get some shelves to put it on so I'm at the mercy of finding a pair of shelves we can both agree on. So I'll probably test it out now and then re-do it once I get the sides installed.

I guess I'll probably end up going with a 5.1 setup and storing the other LSi F/X's for when I get a real HT room....I probably went over kill with this room in hoping I might be able to get 7.1 up but I didn't want to have to upgrade my speakers if and when I moved and got a real theater room. Thanks for the positioning help with the LSi F/X's. It'll work out better for me pushing them back as I have the room.

One other question that I read about on another audio website and had a question about. Should I set the speaker impedence option on the receiver to 4 ohm? I was reading on another website in which it stated in caps DON'T USE THEM! Any other opinions on that? I don't want to mess up the speakers or receiver I just got. I don't crank up the volume too extremely loud...the only time I really even get the opportunity is when the wife and my 1.5 year old are out of the house.

The last question would be if I were to get a seperate amp what's the minimum power rating I should get? I was trying to avoid getting a seperate amp by getting a pretty good receiver...so I'll probably play that one by ear.

cnh

Integras like their little brother Onkyos have a limiter that prevents the AVR from being overdriven in 4 ohms.....what this does is 'reduce' the available wattage for 4 ohm output. In other words if the amp is rated 145 watts/channel at 8 ohms...you will get maybe 55 or 65 watts/channel at 4 ohms. If you don't set your Integra to 4 ohms you run the risk of overdriving it and clipping the amp and blowing your speakers.

So be careful...and follow your manuals 'suggestions'.

cnh

jimmydep

First let me welcome you to the Club.
I have the same speakers as you, I did try a 7.1 set-up for awhile, but found very Little benefit so I run a 5.1 instead.
Your receiver has pre-outs so it would be very easy to add an amplifier to your system. When I first started this hobby, I ran my LSI's off my receiver, I was not overly impressed with their performance, and began second guessing my purchase.

After surfing around this site I realized these speakers were 4ohms and really need alot more current than I was feeding them. So I added an Emotiva XPA-5 and immediately experienced a vast improvement in sound quality, the soundstage widened significantly, imaging improved, the speakers had much more detail with greater bass response. The veil had lifted and they were no longer flat and lifeless.

Play around with your front speaker placement, I found the LSi-15's to be alittle finicky in a less than perfect room.


Jimmy

John K.

TK, your question about the 4 ohm setting drew a rather curious reply, so note that it's the cutting of the maximum power capability roughly in half when the 4 ohm setting is used which might result in clipping and damage to your speakers. To realize the full capability of your equipment leave the setting at the 8 ohm default; the lower setting should never be used.

Twinkill

John I did notice that when I had the receiver set to 4 ohms it barely got warm at all...but when I have it set to 6 ohm it gets abit warmer. My receiver only seems to have just these two settings so I'm assuming 6 ohm is as high as it'll go. I think it sounds better at 6 ohms so I think ultimately I'll just leave on 6 ohm. I'm hoping since I don't really listen to it very loud I won't have to necessarily worry too much about clipping.

cnh

You're going to blow your amp and your speakers if you don't use the 4 ohm setting...the fact that the amp runs cooler at that setting "proves" that.

It is much easier to tax the amp at the 6-8 ohm setting when driving a 4 ohm load--AND MUCH EASIER TO CLIP IT IN THAT MODE!!...that's basic knowledge and the REASON THAT ONKYO HAS A 4 OHM SETTING that THEY advise you to use? I assume the Onkyo Engineers might know a thing or two, no? Drive those speakers at the higher setting at your 'own' risk?

Do yourself a favor and just buy a USED power amp that can actually handle 4 ohm loads properly and use the Integra as a pre-amp!

cnh

wutadumsn23

cnh wrote: »

Do yourself a favor and just buy a USED power amp that can actually handle 4 ohm loads properly and use the Integra as a pre-amp!

cnh

+1,000 This is good advice, if you use that Integra to power those speakers you will never hear what they are really capable of. What is the sense of having such nice speakers if you have to be careful with how you use them because you are afraid to clip your amp? Get yourself a used Adcom, Sunfire, Rotel, Emotiva 200W or so external amp and call it a day. You are playing with fire using an AVR that isn't rated for 4 ohms, esp. if you don't use the 4 ohm setting that is there for a reason. It will work for awhile until you can afford an amp, but trust me you will be much happier and feel much safer running those LSi's with an external amp.

-Jeff

Twinkill

Just curious but I've read at least on the audioholics board in regards to this subject and link. http://www.audioholics.com/education/frequently-asked-questions/connecting-4-ohm-speakers-to-an-8-ohm-receiver-or-amplifier. Any truth to this or is this just mainly farce?

Now I totally understand that getting a seperate receiver to power the LSi speakers is the most ideal setup and I may actually look at that further down the road when I actually get a real HT room, but probably not right at the moment. Lol...as it was a chore getting the wife to agree on everything that I currently bought.

In regards to the receiver clipping would I have to crank up the volume to relatively high levels or if I keep at relatively low levels would I be safe? I generally don't crank the volume too high as my wife unfortunately doesn't like it and plus I have a relatively young child.

jimmydep

Watching how you use the volume knob will help to protect your receiver, but your LSI's will sound significantly better even at low volumes when you add an external amplifier.

Jim

Hoosierbronco

I'm still quite the noob , Twinkill , but I think I can answer your question from my experience just last night.

I was doing the typical kitchen chores , listening to some Bob Seger , James Taylor (hey , the wife was helping me !!!) and I noticed that a song will build in intensity and if you are "getting into it" , you may not notice it happening. Same goes for a movie soundtrack.
So , when I started a track and set the volume , as the song progressed , it became louder , driving the amp harder and eventually into clipping , which tripped the "circuit breakers" on my tweeters. (Polk 10B's)

So as far as I'm concerned :
volume level disipline = good inititive / bad judgement.

Protect your investment and set the switch properly so that you can save your money for an amp , instead of spending it on speaker and receiver repairs.

Twinkill

Hoosierbronco...so when you say set the switch are you referring to a setting on the speaker or some sort of external device that would prevent the overload? I'm not real clear on how you set the breaker on your tweeter. Is it only specific to that Polk 10B model?

wutadumsn23

Just be careful with the volume knob and you should be ok for now. Like said above, protect your investment and save up for an amp. Not only will it sound much better, you won't have to worry about damaging your AVR or speakers.

-Jeff

Hoosierbronco

The (my) 10b's have a poly-switch (self-resetting circuit breaker) on the cross-over that will open the circuit to the tweeter once the signal gets dirty (clipped). This protects the tweeter because a clipped signal can destroy a tweet instantly.

Once the switch opens , I just have to turn it down for a second or two till it resets on its own, then I can turn it up again.

The switch I referred to was YOUR switch on the back of your receiver , 4 or 8 ohm , or whatever selector you have that allows you to put it to the 4 ohm setting.

I do not know if your speakers have any type of protective circuit.

Hoosierbronco

FYI :
a clean sine wave and a clipped signal ,

wutadumsn23

Wow, that's a fancy picture that I have no idea what it means, lol.

-Jeff

domflane

Its an A/C power sine wave . . .

wutadumsn23

domflane wrote: »

Its an A/C power sine wave . . .

Sold, I'll take two!! LOL.

-Jeff

apphd

A lot of truths here which kind of shows the 2 edged sword of driving 4 ohm loads with AVRs which are not truly capable of handling them.

I probably am wrong but I believe the 4-6-8 ohm settings on most AVRs is put in place by the manufacture to meet safety standards and receive an ok listing such as UL.

You will find arguments on both sides of this (imagine that). Using the 4 ohm setting you limit the output, which will reduce the heat and with careful use of the volume prevent clipping. But with the reduced output, many feel the need to turn the volume up higher to get a satisfactory sound for them, which increases the potential for clipping and damage.

As already stated the source material is not at a constant level, so you may be good for a while, just below clipping, then there is a sudden increase which will put you above a safe limit, and probably produce a clipped signal.

Also keep in mind that a speakers stated impedance is probably not the lowest it actually reaches. Impedance will swing depending on freq. so a 4 ohm speaker can dip below this, sometimes significantly.

So which ever setting you use can cause problems, and which ever setting you use, you will need to go lightly with the volume.
Save up for an amp!

wutadumsn23

apphd wrote: »

A lot of truths here which kind of shows the 2 edged sword of driving 4 ohm loads with AVRs which are not truly capable of handling them.

I probably am wrong but I believe the 4-6-8 ohm settings on most AVRs is put in place by the manufacture to meet safety standards and receive an ok listing such as UL.

You will find arguments on both sides of this (imagine that). Using the 4 ohm setting you limit the output, which will reduce the heat and with careful use of the volume prevent clipping. But with the reduced output, many feel the need to turn the volume up higher to get a satisfactory sound for them, which increases the potential for clipping and damage.

As already stated the source material is not at a constant level, so you may be good for a while, just below clipping, then there is a sudden increase which will put you above a safe limit, and probably produce a clipped signal.

Also keep in mind that a speakers stated impedance is probably not the lowest it actually reaches. Impedance will swing depending on freq. so a 4 ohm speaker can dip below this, sometimes significantly.

So which ever setting you use can cause problems, and which ever setting you use, you will need to go lightly with the volume.
Save up for an amp!

Excellent post man, I agree 1000%. Very good advice in that post, esp. the last part about the amp. That is your safest bet, IMHO.

-Jeff

jimmydep

Good post apphd!
Twinkill, at some point you'll realize what most LSI owners learn in time, it's that LSI's need, and sound much better with a separate amp.

Jimmy