My Xbox360 rant

Sami

If you're a die-hard XBOX 360 boy then I suggest you don't read any further (hey, it's a rant). I'm not a PS3 fanboy either but I think I'll stick with it as my other gaming platform. You can bash me for being a PC fanboy/gamer though, I find both platforms lacking for serious gaming but I'll give them kudos for being excellent in some areas where PC isn't as good by default.

Before the usual "you should have done some research before buying", I bought the Xbox for my brother-in-law, I just tested it briefly since I couldn't resist the temptation to try out Forza 3. I am just venting my frustration since I wanted this to be a positive experience so I could justify one for myself.

The positives first (keep in mind this was a brief but frustrating intro to Xbox360 for me):

The controller is better than PS3, definitely.
The interface is better as well, no question.
Integration with Windows Media Center is done nicely.
Came with a headset.

The negatives:

Netflix streaming, no-go, you need Live Gold membership for that. No thanks, I'll stick to the cumbersome PS3 disc.

You seem to need proprietary hardware for every single little thing. None of my wheels and pedals worked, not the PS3 nor the PC hardware. At least the PS3 works with standard wheels from PC and other USB devices. This is a major thing why I will most likely not be getting one for myself. I want one set of hardware that will work with all my platforms. At least with PC and PS3 I can share some of them.

Forza 3: Although I don't plan to play any racing games with the controller, I have to whine about this. Steering is configured to your left thumb joystick with no option to change it. I am right handed and I have better control of the car using my right thumb but no, it seems like I am stuck using my left hand...

Related to the point above, no advanced controller configuration menu. Not that it is any different in PS3 either but with a PC you can customize your controls any way you like. As a PC fanboy I find it very disappointing that you are stuck with the limited options but at the same time understand why consoles should be made simplistic.

p.s. I'll spare you from the old lack of mouse and keyboard support rant.

bevo

There is only one steering wheel made that will work with all 3 platforms (ps3, pc, and xbox 360) It's the fanatec 911 turbo s wheel, and it is the best consumer wheel made. Unless you want to spend thousands on your setup, the 911 wheel is the best. I owned the G25 but wanted to have a good wheel for the 360 since the microsoft wheel sucks so I ordered the 911 clubsport edition of the wheel to try. It is better in every aspect then logitechs offerings. If you really want a high quality wheel and pedals then you should look at fanatec's lineup. their wheels are also able to be updated with new firmware to give new features in the future which they have already done once, and will be adding a few new things in the very near future. You can also adjust the FF, vibration, and the brakes pedals vibration independent of the game.

The clubsport pedals are also very good, and much better then the G25's. They are solid metal, and you are able to make many adjustments to them. You can move the pedals around, stiffen the clutch or gas, or make the throw of the brake shorter. The major downfall for fanatec is their customer service. They are a small company based in Germany and sometimes take awhile to reply to emails.

If you love racing games you should really look into the 911 turbo s wheel. Unless you've got frex equipment or better (which doesn't work on the PS3 or xbox) you can't buy a better wheel, and you definitely can't get better pedals for the PS3 or 360. They are also getting ready to start working on a high end shifter in the near future, and possibly and ebrake after that.

Here's some pics from their site.

kuntasensei

As a 360 owner (who can't use those tiny plastic-toy PS3 controllers but appreciates the power of its hardware), I understand all of your complaints. That said, Xbox Live is a fantastic service that is miles beyond what PSN offers. And considering you can regularly find 12-month Live Gold cards at Amazon for $35, that works out to about $3 a month for access to an online gaming community that is head and shoulders above what PSN offers, and allows you to not only use Netflix on the 360 but to use Netflix in party view mode with friends (which is awesome for really crappy movies, since you can have your own MST3K experience). Live Gold members also get 8-person cross-game party chat, a much easier game invite system that works while you're in-game, a complaint system that lets you flag other players so Microsoft's team of investigators can jump into their games to assess your complaints, and since Microsoft is able to aggregate stats so well on their servers, we get updates to fix online cheating and exploits faster than PS3 owners do. So if you're interested in online console gaming, that $3 a month is worth it and gives you a much better and faster Netflix experience to boot. If you want to experience it, let me know and I'll send you a 48-hour Live Gold trial code so you can try it out.

I do see your complaints about the hardware though. And Forza 3 (and all games, really) should really have a southpaw option so you can switch sticks. You're correct that all games should have customizable controls, and that has been one of my big complaints about console gaming. Some games let you do it, but others just throw in the default controls that most people use and that's what you're stuck with.

As far as mouse and keyboard go, I'm glad it's not an option on consoles because it would seriously unbalance online play. Sure, there are ways to attempt to balance the two (Shadowrun, a cross-platform 360/PC game, did a passable job), but mouse/keyboard will always be faster and more precise. That said, as a former die-hard PC gamer, I didn't really miss mouse/keyboard once I really got the hang of the Halo-style FPS controls. Now I'm sniping like mad in Borderlands with 3 friends in voice chat, and that's way more fun than anything on the PC to me.

My thought: If the PC is what you're into, don't feel too compelled to bother with console gaming. I, however, find myself drawn to play my 360 because of all the friends I've made on Xbox Live, and because it's more fun to play on my 100" screen with 9.2 surround than on my PC's 24" monitor and 5.1 surround. If you're looking for racing games on your living room setup, you can get that with Forza on the 360 or Gran Turismo on the PS3 (if the new one ever comes out). If you get Xbox Live though, Forza 3's online community is excellent, not just for the racing, but for all the customized cars and the community of painters offering up their paint styles online. Nothing on the PC comes close if you're a gearhead, and the 360's wireless racing wheel is only $85 right now.

tommyboy

I won't say anything about the racing games you mentioned since I never played them and not a big fan of racing games anyways...However, with comments about xbox live and the controller configuration doesn't make much sense to me (and kuntasensei wrote a good reply about this)

First off, if you allow the keyboard mouse combo on the xbox, it will completely defeat the purpose of a console game to begin with since it forces you to sit at a desk... There are three reasons why I play more console games over PC.

1) I don't want to waste time and money constantly upgrading my PC, I'd rather just buy one console (even if its five years old i don't care) and be done with it.
2) I'd rather lay on a couch under blankets or whatever playing on a larger tv then sitting a computer using a small screen. I already am on the computer enough doing school work and browsing the internet...
3) 5.1 surround sound > 2 channel

And like kuntasensei already mentrioned, you can get year gold membership for 35 bucks and thats really not that bad( and this is coming from one cheap ****;)). Millions of people spend like 12 bucks a month for world of warcraft and thats ONE GAME. But anyways, if you are willing to handle the three things I mentioned above (who knows, you might have 5.1 for your computer), then the question is why even bother trying consoles...

Sami

Even though my post was a rant and not to be taken too seriously, I'll address some of the points...

I already have PC for FPS games (sorry, consoles don't even come close in that department). I already have a PS3 (two actually) that I got for Bluray playback. I would not mind paying $200 for another console to gain more access to online players and some games (mainly Forza since racing games are my main attraction to consoles) and games suited for consoles (sports and other games that do not require the precision of a mouse and a keyboard). I just don't care too much to pay for online gaming that I get for free from other platforms. Not really a money issue as you can tell from my willingness to pay for hardware. If Xbox was my only gaming platform, I'd do it, but since it doesn't have the potential to be anything other than a secondary or tertiary platform, I'll skip.

I do understand why keyboard and mouse are not desired for consoles but at the same time that rules them out for me and I will have to turn to PC for FPS games. Not to mention RTS games, although there haven't been anything really good in a long time even for PC. It's just that the limitations on consoles rule them out as a replacement for PC. An alternative yes, but if the next gen consoles want to gain more ground over PC's they better address this issue as well as for die-hard FPS players a console is not an option at this time.

BTW, PC's are just as capable using a projector and 5.1 stereo system. Actually even more. Not as convenient, which I see as the argument here, but more capable. That's besides the point though. Also, party chats are by default better on the PC as you can set it up anyway you like, you're not limited to what PS3 or XBOX teams tell you you can use. Do they enable more cheating? Probably, but I don't really care, I just want to enjoy the game and I can do that by selecting any server I wish to play in. Which does bring in another complaint about console gaming: lack of dedicates servers. As experienced with the PC version of Modern Warfare 2, which I believe is how consoles do it, sucks. Big time sucks.

kuntasensei

I see your point on Xbox Live, but when you compare it to the nightmare that PSN is, it's worth $3. But if consoles aren't your primary source of gaming, I definitely understand why you don't want to pay it. Still, the PC offers absolutely nothing like Forza 3's online community, at least in the racing genre.

I used to feel that way about my PC (especially for FPS), but I just got tired of upgrading all the time and once I got the hang of the Xbox controllers for FPS, I didn't miss the mouse and keyboard. Once the 360 got me HD and 5.1 in a console, I was sold. You're right about RTS games, though I was pleasantly surprised at how much fun I had with Tom Clancy's Endwar (because the voice control actually worked really well). That said, I would argue that "die-hard FPS players" have definitely migrated to consoles, as noted by the huge sales of the Halo series, Call Of Duty, Borderlands, etc. Not that I'm saying they're replacing PCs in any way... but PC gaming is kinda' going the way of the dodo right now, mostly because of the cost of entry and the downward spiral of the economy.

Some games on 360 use dedicated servers, but I get your point. Still, I haven't had too much difficulty finding a good low-ping game at any given time on the 360, and have had a great experience even when I'm playing with my friends in the UK. It is kinda' B.S. that they didn't let people run dedicated servers for the PC version of MW2 though. Seems kinda' silly on their part.

Sami

kuntasensei wrote: »

Still, the PC offers absolutely nothing like Forza 3's online community, at least in the racing genre.

Racing games are one of the reason why I am intrigued by consoles. I am just pissed I don't have one option that fits all my needs. I still need a powerful PC because of work but if I could get a console that fits all my gaming needs, I would be happy.

kuntasensei wrote: »

That said, I would argue that "die-hard FPS players" have definitely migrated to consoles, as noted by the huge sales of the Halo series, Call Of Duty, Borderlands, etc.

Most casual gamers, and those that have not experienced/started FPS on a PC, are quite happy with consoles. Most of them are happy to play racing games with the controller, very few gamers go with wheels and pedals, racing seat. Same with FPS games. If you want the best experience with racing games, it's with good hardware. If you want the best FPS experience, it's on a hardware that supports keyboard and mouse or equivalent controls. You can play FPS on a console and be quite happy about it, but it's just not the same experience until they provide a good alternative way of controlling. I can only hope the next generation is a step in the right direction but it will more likely take 2-3 generations before we are there.

bevo

You keep talking about racing games on the PC and the hardware being better. Consoles have come along way in the last 2 years with racing sims and with the Fanatec wheel the best steering wheel(under 1000$) is the same on all 3 platforms.

360 racing sims= forza 3 which is also going to support a motion simulator made by fanatec in the future.
race pro, which was made by sim bin
need for speed shift are all 3 pretty good racing sims.
Dirt 2

PS3=GT5 will hopefully be coming soon
Ferrari challenge, it has the best FF and maybe the best physics that consoles have to offer so far
F1 CE, a pretty good F1 sim game and there is a new F1 game coming soon
Need for speed shift
Dirt 2


There's 6 pretty good to excellent sim games for consoles, and more and more of them are starting to support the clutch and 6 speed shifters.I know none of them are Live for speed, GTR2, Rfactor or anything like that. But some of the PC games have monthly fees that will go well beyond the 60$ a year microsoft charges, and the PC games fees are for only that single game. The only games PC's really are better for anymore are the RTS games. If you like to use a mouse for shooters, there is a company that also makes a mouse to use with FPS games for the PS3. If triple screen racing is what you want then forza 3 has that, and GT5 will hopefully also support this feature.

You could buy both consoles, the fanatec wheel, the mouse setup for the PS3, pay for xbox live and still buy several games and a decent size TV and not have as much money in that as you would a good gaming PC that would run the games at their full capabilities.


Really though I'm kind of with you, If I could only pick one console it would be the PS3, but that because of blue rays and it's media capabilities. The 360 really is though in another league when it comes to online gaming. It's well ahead of PC's and the PS3.

Sami

And so the rant continues...

bevo wrote: »

You keep talking about racing games on the PC and the hardware being better. Consoles have come along way in the last 2 years with racing sims and with the Fanatec wheel the best steering wheel(under 1000$) is the same on all 3 platforms.

I actually like the consoles as racing platforms but where the XBOX360 fails miserably is hardware support (possibly by design to sell their own hardware). I am not buying a $400 wheel when I have a perfectly good Logitech that works for both my PS3 and PC but doesn't for the 360. Not for one game especially when you count in the cost of the console AND a yearly subscription. Not when it doesn't have the potential to satisfy all my gaming needs.

bevo wrote: »

The only games PC's really are better for anymore are the RTS games.

First Person Shooters. Consoles are far behind and are not a viable option until they fix their controller issue.

Flight simulators, there really isn't anything decent for either console and while it would be possible to make them it doesn't make sense unless they also provide support for joystick and pedals.

bevo wrote: »

If you like to use a mouse for shooters, there is a company that also makes a mouse to use with FPS games for the PS3.

I actually bought one but unfortunately it sucks. It's much better than a controller but much worse than real mouse/keyboard combo. Waste of money.

bevo wrote: »

You could buy both consoles, the fanatec wheel, the mouse setup for the PS3, pay for xbox live and still buy several games and a decent size TV and not have as much money in that as you would a good gaming PC that would run the games at their full capabilities.

You are grossly overestimating the cost of building a gaming computer. You also forget that playing PC games at half of their potential is still as good or better than what consoles provide. You have to remember that both PS3 and 360 only give you 720p resolution. You could build a gaming PC for couple hundred that play games at those resolutions.

bevo wrote: »

It's well ahead of PC's and the PS3.

Sorry but PC still provides the ultimate gaming experience. Consoles might be more convenient but they still have major shortcomings they have to fix for me to consider them a replacement for a gaming PC. If you mostly play adventure games or sport games then a console is probably your best choice but if you're into flight simulators, strategy and first person shooters, PC is the only option currently.

tommyboy

Sami wrote: »

Sorry but PC still provides the ultimate gaming experience. Consoles might be more convenient but they still have major shortcomings they have to fix for me to consider them a replacement for a gaming PC. If you mostly play adventure games or sport games then a console is probably your best choice but if you're into flight simulators, strategy and first person shooters, PC is the only option currently.

Start rant

For fps shooters, its not the "only option" but I will agree for the other two. I have two games for my pc, they are rise of nations and starcraft. You can't find any console RTS that will come close to them (and doesn't need much power to run). Halo wars isn't too bad though but it still no where near starcraft.

My last post was not suppose to imply that consolses are better, just that with my interests (and my financial status) buying a console is good enough. Also, to tell you the truth I can't think of any of my friends who even play FPS on PC anymore. Back in the day a few did but since most games have online multiplayer anymore most have stopped...

bevo

Both the 360 and Ps3 give 1080p resolution on games that support it. But you are right about the flight sims, there is nothing on the consoles. I'm also like the last guy, not trying to say consoles are better, but they do have their place in gaming. The 360 excels in online gaming over both the PS3 and PC in most games. The PS3 for the price can not be beat when it comes to all of the things in can do in the multi media world, and the PC has The most in depth gaming experience when it comes to options and mods and the such.

As for the 400$ wheel. If you already have a logitech wheel then you can use the pedals from it for the fanatec wheel and get the fanatec wheel for 250$. I'm just saying that there are options out there for consoles too. You don't have to let an inferior racing wheel stop you from enjoying all 3 consoles, because the best consumer wheel is made for the 360, and works on the PS3 and PC as well. Really the fanatec wheel is by far the most consumer friendly wheel made. It worls with the G25 pedals, M$ wirless wheels pedals, it works on all gaming platforms, it has firmware updates, and will be supported for years to come with better shifters, ebrakes, and anything we can think of for them to build.

I'm done now. I just love racing sims too, and hate to see anyone miss out on forza 3 or race pro because they didn't know about a wheel that works on all consoles and PC's.

By the way, what kind of racing setup do you have. I found a site selling the DFGT's for 51$ refurbished and am thinking about buying one for my boy so he can use it on his games.

Sami

tommyboy wrote: »

For fps shooters, its not the "only option" but I will agree for the other two.

That's why I said AND, not OR in the statement.

If you only play FPS out of the three then console is an option but not as good. At least not for me since the controls are so unnatural.

tommyboy wrote: »

My last post was not suppose to imply that consolses are better, just that with my interests (and my financial status) buying a console is good enough.

Yes, good enough is the key word. For most people for FPS it is good enough, and honestly many like the convenience console gaming provides.

tommyboy wrote: »

Also, to tell you the truth I can't think of any of my friends who even play FPS on PC anymore. Back in the day a few did but since most games have online multiplayer anymore most have stopped...

I don't have that many anymore either but that's probably more due to my age than anything else. Getting closer to 40, and some of my old playing partners being even over, it's not easy to find the time anymore to play. Hardly any of them have switched to consoles though, they still prefer PC for shooters. Some of that might be due to most of them being hardcore flight simulator fanatics.

Sami

bevo wrote: »

Both the 360 and Ps3 give 1080p resolution on games that support it.

And that is how many games? I doubt 360 has the horsepower for 1080p games with full details turned on, PS3 might but even that is doubtful. It's not apples to apples to compare PC games at full resolution with every option turned on to games with limited options and resolution. The point is you can get a decent gaming computer for the cost of a PS3 or Xbox Elite. You'll also save $10-15 per game as PC games are most of the time cheaper than their console counterparts.

bevo wrote: »

The 360 excels in online gaming over both the PS3 and PC in most games.

If you're serious about PC gaming then the online experience is actually very comprehensive and gives you many more options than consoles do. Dedicated servers is one thing but also the option to run many different forms of squad audio channels for example. The unlimited options do bring some disadvantages for the casual gamers though as things are not all under one XBox Live umbrella, you will have to find them.

bevo wrote: »

I'm done now. I just love racing sims too, and hate to see anyone miss out on forza 3 or race pro because they didn't know about a wheel that works on all consoles and PC's.

Right after I found out the Logitech does not work with XBOX, I did research and found that wheel. If racing was the only thing missing on XBOX and I already didn't have my PC and PS3, and wheel that works for them, I might consider it. But I am not going to go that route since MS decided not to support standard equipment. I'll just stick with my PC and PS3 once my brother in law gets this XBOX (and Forza 3 it seems like).

bevo wrote: »

By the way, what kind of racing setup do you have. I found a site selling the DFGT's for 51$ refurbished and am thinking about buying one for my boy so he can use it on his games.

I have DFGT and also Momo which I'm using in my office, the pedals are very good for flight sims which it gets used mostly these days. DFGT is in the theatre room on Playseat Evolution chair. It's not as good as the Momo but works slightly better with PS3.

Curtis Day

I'm lost lol

jwm2

Honestly i have to beg to differ on the PSN experience. I've had alot better time on PSN than i have with Xbox Live, i've been an Xbox Live member for 5 years and have had good times and bad, but lately the bad far outweigh the good. On PSN if i have a bad experience at least i'm not paying for it. About 2 years ago Xbox Live was down for about 2 weeks when there was a surge in people buying consoles around christmas. I couldn't get on for over 2 weeks and when it did come back it was a lag-fest. So what did they do to make it up to folks? Give them a free Xbox Live Arcade game, which was undertow. The only problem is I and many other already paid the $8 for the game a week prior to the service going down. So that was a double punch to the face. Not only did i not have service for a week but they basically stole $8 out of my pocket on top of that. Since then i have not bought too many Xbox Live Arcade games and don't play online all that much. When i do play online its with the PS3. If i have a choice between the 360 version or the PS3 version i always go with the PS3 version. And the 360 has a much better achievement system which gives you a nice tingling feeling inside when you unlock an achievement, but i still do not like to support that console due to the practices of their tech support (the horror stories are endless) and due to their policies with their Online service. When asked about when the problems would be fixed they often hung up the phone (in most cases), gave some bs story on it almost being fixed, or just denied the problem altogether. And that wasn't the first time nor the last time it happened. MS has several pending class action lawsuits against it for deceptive practices. And thats not to mention the types of people who get on their service and talk using the microphone. Overall i'd rate the PSN experience a 8 or 9 out of 10 and the Xbox Live experience at around a 6 or 7 when it was up and running at full speed. The fact Sony can run a network with fewer problems, less lag, etc, it just amazing to me. And don't try to tell me MS uses dedicated servers and thats why they need the money to keep them maintained, i've heard it all before. That is a flat out lie, the servers are only used for matchmaking same as the PSN network. I've heard all the bs over the years about why Xbox Live is better and is worth the money, when in my experience the opposite is true. I'm also in the gaming industry and have been for over 10 years. I'm a regular at both official forums and have heard the arguements thousands of times. The truth is PSN is every bit as good as XBL and is free. So if and when PSN has issues, i won't feel cheated. I think of the PSN network as a bonus, i look at XBL as something i've got the right to use because i've paid for it over the years. When you pay for something you feel entitled, when its free you feel privledged.

jwm2

And just for the record i own 9 xbox 360s and 1 ps3, oh and 2 nintendo wiis. I've also got 2 PSPs, 3 Nintendo DSs, an Ipod Touch(3rd gen) and a gaming pc. Like i said i've been in the industry for awhile now, its my business to stay current with gaming technology

bevo

You are the first person I have ever say they prefer the PSN over xbox live., that has actually used both. I really can't think of anything that would make PSN better. The matchmaking system is horrible on the PS3, and cross game invites can not happen. I do love my PS3, but xbox live is better in every way then the PSN. The only thing PSN has going for it, is that it is free, and that is going to stop soon too. Soon to use all of the PSN features you will have to pay over 80$ a year. I understand though that when something puts a bad taste in your mouth, like xbox live has, then it's hard to be unbiased.

And why do you have 9 xbox 360's, that's crazy? Are you running triple screen setups or something?

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think your in a minority with the PSN being better theory, except for fanboys who just stick by one console. I have at least 6 friends who own both consoles, and we have given up buying any sports games to play together on the PS3 because of the lag, disconnects, and server unavailable problems. We would go days with the football game league and franchise services being down, with the xbox we very rarely had these problems, so this year it will be back to the 360 for football. Cross game chat is another very good feature about xbox live, especially when trying to organize groups for sports games. The PSN made it so hard to get together to play our franchise games because of the lack of this feature. 50% of the time on PSN the voice chat didn't work anyway whenever we were in our franchise, one person would always have their mic not working.

I know I'm beating a dead horse with this talk, but I really can't see one thing that's better about the PSN. I guess it does have one thing, and it is by far my favorite game ever, and that's socom. So I guess in the end if I had to chose one it would be the PSN, but that;s just because of socom.

jwm2

I've never had disconnect issues or any matchmaking issues. Also lag has always been a non issue as long as you connect to a host with low ping times. Obviously if you live far away from the host but you have to play on that host because of your friends then no matter if you use PSN or Xbox Live you will have lag. The cross chat is better on Xbox Live, however its a feature i don't use at all. In fact i find it to be annoying when i did use it. I dont play with friends online, i play in quick matchs where i'm just thrown into a match or room at random. And i've never had any issues with being disconnected. On the other hand with gears of war and gears of war 2, i had lots of disconnect issues. Those were 2 of the few games i'd play on xbox live and the problems i'd have were endless. In fact thats what turned me off of Xbox Live, i couldn't get into games and even when i did i'd be disconnected or booted from the server. With PSN i've never had those issues. I play warhawk quite a bit and various other games on PSN with no hassles what-so-ever. I don't even have a quick ISP, in fact my ISP is rather average in terms of latency and bandwidth. But the experience overall has been much better for me even when i had a cable modem in town at my office on PSN.

jwm2

I have 9 360s because i buy them cheap on ebay repair them and then resell or give them away. It goes along with my business. I sell alot of repair parts for the various systems and from time to time i do repairs for the heck of it. Some of the systems have been featured and given away in Game Informer magazine/online as well as GamePro and Hardcore Gamer Magazine. 360s are generally cheap to buy because there are so many problems with them, mostly due to the cheap dvd drive. PS3s are expensive to buy and repair because the parts aren't nearly as plentiful or available, same with the wii. The 360 is really an unreliable system composed of cheap parts. I don't hate the 360, in fact i'm glad we finally have our own console instead of waiting for games to come from japan like in the old days, but the 360 really has alot of problems.

Demiurge

jwm2

You're full of ****.

Good day.