What happened?

Serendipity · January 2010

I read a post and it got me thinking...

What happened over the last 10 years to the audio industry? I remember back in 2001 you could walk into an audio store and look at a vast expanse of gear. Fast forward to 2010, and a lot of that has disappeared.

Heck, even chain stores have stopped with "demo" rooms unless you walk into a place like 6th Avenue Electronics, or Sound City in New Jersey. Harvey Electronics, Incredible Universe, Park Ave. Audio were great places to go to back into the day.

Now I know this is probably due to the economy, but I seriously miss the support this hobby used to have over the past years. Even Circuit City used to have Polk on demo rooms which showed off the higher-end models, but that has disappeared.

concealer404 · January 2010

The internet happened. You've probably also noticed that there's a ton of internet-only direct companies now. On top of that, the same brands that the dedicated stores sold are available online most of the time with lower prices. You and I might not mind paying a little more for the service of a physical store, but the average buyer would do their research at the store, and then buy what they like online for cheaper.

Serendipity · January 2010

You know what else I noticed? The gear changed. Which needed less support and was more of an "instant gratification" thing.

Back in 2001 hi-fi stores were selling huge CRT rear projection TV's which required a lot of support such as calibration, set-up, lens cleaning and service. But today, you pick up an LCD from Best Buy, and keep it until it breaks.

The disposable feeling of gear (read: Black Plastic Crap) such as the HTIB market IMO has watered down audio. And nowadays with the source equipment (MP3, for example) I don't see many using high-end equipment (iPod docks are very common).

polktiger · January 2010

IPOD - That is what happened

Serendipity · January 2010

I guess you're right, it has to go all the way back to the source. When there used to be dedicated sources (remember the LaserDisc players and huge CDP's back in the day) vs. nowadays a disposable DVD player is 20 bucks.

Music is more and more compressed, dynamically and in file size. When you put that onto an MP3, no wonder it isn't going to sound good and actually IMO sounds WORSE on a hi-fi stereo system.

treitz3 · January 2010

Whatever happened? I hate it and anything associated with it. Damned convenience crowd...

hearingimpared · January 2010

I couldn't have said it better myself Tom.

Serendipity · January 2010

treitz3 wrote: »

Whatever happened? I hate it and anything associated with it. Damned convenience crowd...

IMO, convenience might have been a contributing factor but also the "I want it now" mentality. File sharing, instant gratification, etc.

Plus the quality of music has changed - anyone listen to a modern Beyonce or U2 CD? Compressed to ridiculous levels and blaring loud... no wonder everyone's listening on an iPod.

But when has the gear been so cheap? Walk into any big box store and you'll have a row of HTIB's with a price tag of $200 but the speakers that sell for $1000-3000 are long gone. Heck, CC used to carry RTi150's and nice subs from Polk, now most stores just have the basics. HDTV's were once 200lbs (I have a Sony KD-34XBR960) and lasted a decade, now they are basically throw away items.

Tony M · January 2010

Serendipity wrote: »

I read a post and it got me thinking...

What happened over the last 10 years to the audio industry? I remember back in 2001 you could walk into an audio store and look at a vast expanse of gear. Fast forward to 2010, and a lot of that has disappeared.

Heck, even chain stores have stopped with "demo" rooms unless you walk into a place like 6th Avenue Electronics, or Sound City in New Jersey. Harvey Electronics, Incredible Universe, Park Ave. Audio were great places to go to back into the day.

Now I know this is probably due to the economy, but I seriously miss the support this hobby used to have over the past years. Even Circuit City used to have Polk on demo rooms which showed off the higher-end models, but that has disappeared.

BLOSE first , then APPLE and NAPSTER.. Got to hand it to Apple for filling the newer generations want.

Concealer404, I agree the internet also had an equal part.

Serendipity · January 2010

tony millard wrote: »

BLOSE first , then APPLE and NAPSTER.. Got to hand it to Apple for filling the newer generations want.

Concealer404, I agree the internet also had an equal part.

Well, considering that Bose is more expensive than the average HTIB system, I'm not sure if it's had an effect on the market. Back in the day I remember a Lifestyle 50 system cost something like $4500 or so; compared to mass market audio the market share was smaller.

The iPod, on the other hand can be used for great audio. I know there are products like the Wadia iPod dock that can extract the audio file from the iPod and play it through its own DAC. So if you load it up with lossless files (read: BIG) and hook up the dock to a good pre, I don't see why you can't get good sound.

fatchowmein · January 2010

cnh · January 2010

A weblinked based history! Wow!

For the most part this has hit audio..as far as video there has actually been an improvement....sets last longer, are better and blu-rays are becoming more affordable and better! So to an extent it is AUDIO that has been hardest hit.

To add a sad note to its demise--I tested my hearing online last night and the old boy can't hear anything above 14khz! It's true what they say about high frequency loss and age...alas...! My daughter, who is 12, had no problem hearing the 20khz test tone!

So does that mean I have to give up my AUDIO CARD?

cnh

Serendipity · January 2010

cnh wrote: »

For the most part this has hit audio..as far as video there has actually been an improvement....sets last longer, are better and blu-rays are becoming more affordable and better! So to an extent it is AUDIO that has been hardest hit.

I'm not sure about the "sets last longer" part, LCD displays seem to last (I haven't owned an LCD for more than 10 years so who knows) but Plasma and DLP tend to have problems with their electronics and lamp failures.

I guess with audio I really miss the days of large, quality speakers like the Polk RTi150's or Definitive Technology BP7000SC. Most hi-fi stores now have the DefTech Mythos series on demo, and Polk models are either not carried or only available in big box stores.

It would be great if Polk could carry the LSi series in big box stores as that IMO would allow more people to be exposed to the product.

Face · January 2010

Serendipity wrote: »

I'm not sure about the "sets last longer" part, LCD displays seem to last (I haven't owned an LCD for more than 10 years so who knows) but Plasma and DLP tend to have problems with their electronics and lamp failures.

This I agree with.

It would be great if Polk could carry the LSi series in big box stores as that IMO would allow more people to be exposed to the product.

This has been done before. Stores like Tweeter usually had them powered by receivers and the results were disappointing.

Serendipity · January 2010

Face wrote: »

This I agree with.

When you make a TV that lasts for years, I will buy your product. However, some Plasma sets cost almost as much as a new set to repair! So the mentality is "throw it away, buy a new one."

There were days when Sony was "SONY" and actually made good products. Same for JVC, Panasonic, etc. My Sony camcorder is a perfect example of that. Lasts just long enough to get you through the warranty and when it breaks, you throw it away.

devani · January 2010

electronics expo still carries audio gears...but most of the place is filled with TV's and projectors....

I enjoyed going to that place when they had LSi15, LSi9, LSiC in their stores (two years ago)...

Serendipity · January 2010

devani wrote: »

electronics expo still carries audio gears...but most of the place is filled with TV's and projectors....

I enjoyed going to that place when they had LSi15, LSi9, LSiC in their stores (two years ago)...

Is that the one in Jersey? Most of the audio stores I go to are in Manhattan.

babsaldis · January 2010

I miss the good old days too, when you had a variety of audio stores where you could check outs a variety of brands. I live in Austin, TX, which is not a small town. Am shopping for bookshelf speakers for music and there's very little to compare in stores. There's Best Buy which carries mostly low end and a few high end speakers, but not much in the middle. There's one store that carries Paradigm speakers and one that carries PSB. There's a Fry's where I can at least compare some of the Polk models. Then there's the home theater stores that can't seem to comprehend why anyone would be shopping for speakers just for music. Retail experience has changed so much in the last 10 years, and not just in audio. Example: If I had to go buy a new lawnmower, there would be less than half the selection as 10 years ago.

Here's a great story: When I finished college in the mid 70's, I went to buy my first "real" stereo system. Lots of stuff to choose from in the stores. I bought floor speakers, a turntable, and receiver/amp. The purchase also included delivery and setup of the equipment. Not only did they do this, they actually brought me a little cocaine just to be nice. Pretty amazing to think about now. Boy, those were different times!

Barb

concealer404 · January 2010

babsaldis wrote: »

Not only did they do this, they actually brought me a little cocaine just to be nice.

:eek:

babsaldis · January 2010

Well, Concealer404,
You have to remember that this was in the 70's and things were different back then. That story is true, but hilarious to think about now. I guess that store really took pride in their customer service.
Barb

concealer404 · January 2010

babsaldis wrote: »

Well, Concealer404,
You have to remember that this was in the 70's and things were different back then. That story is true, but hilarious to think about now. I guess that store really took pride in their customer service.
Barb

Good point.

devani · January 2010

Serendipity wrote: »

Is that the one in Jersey? Most of the audio stores I go to are in Manhattan.

HQ for Electronis expo is in Wayne, NJ 5 min from work....Paramus store is 5 min from home....i wonder anything changed since then....before the baby came along

markmarc · January 2010

Blaming the iPod is misguided at best.

In Europe home stereo sales haven't dropped like the have here in the States. Our culture is all about multi-tasking, speed, and visual satisfaction. We are stuck in the insanity that doing the most items each day will make us happy. Even our days off are crammed with doing this our that on a list. Those of us in the audio hobby still do this to a lesser extent.

We sit and watch TV, all the while looking at our cell phone every few minutes, or, with our laptop in front of us. Our fear of disconnecting ourselves from the leash of instant information connection is only making ourselves socially more like corn in a popper.

We are becoming more and more dependent on visual stimulation to keep us focused on a stream of information. Unless we are watching something on our plasma TV's or driving, we don't stay on a single task for any long period of time.

When I tell my students of all the times friends and I would sit and listen to albums while passing around the jacket and liner notes, they are shocked. "You mean you weren't doing anything else"? they ask. Our lives have become a drive-thru of convience and speed in place of full experiences.

heiney9 · January 2010

Serendipity wrote: »

When you make a TV that lasts for years, I will buy your product. However, some Plasma sets cost almost as much as a new set to repair! So the mentality is "throw it away, buy a new one."

There were days when Sony was "SONY" and actually made good products. Same for JVC, Panasonic, etc. My Sony camcorder is a perfect example of that. Lasts just long enough to get you through the warranty and when it breaks, you throw it away.

My Mitsubishi 27" CRT TV is now 14 years old and still has a great picture. I kind of wish it would die so I can justify a flat screen - Lol

H9

BlueFox · January 2010

The high-end is doing just fine. Just look at all the advertisements in stereophile and the absolute sound. Maybe it is bought over the Internet now instead of in stores, but that applies to everything. I just bought socks and underwear from Amazon. One day soon it will show up at my door.

markmarc · January 2010

BlueFox wrote: »

The high-end is doing just fine. Just look at all the advertisements in stereophile and the absolute sound. Maybe it is bought over the Internet now instead of in stores, but that applies to everything. I just bought socks and underwear from Amazon. One day soon it will show up at my door.

I'd respectfully disagree. If you look at Stereophile their page count is down by at least a third from 2 years ago. This is directly due to fewer advertisers. In addition, both Stereophile and TAS have cut ad rates in order to keep many of these clients. The high-end needs shops and fewer exist. The ultra high end survive because it only takes a handful of pieces sold to keep the business alive with just a few employees. In the next few years look for many of these guys to try and sell/consoladate as they get older near retirement.

Serendipity · January 2010

markmarc wrote: »

Blaming the iPod is misguided at best.

I can see where you are coming from, but it's the quality of the gear that has changed. Whether it was a tape deck (remember the Nakamichi ones from the 80's), LaserDisc player (some of them were 30+lbs) or even speakers (huge floorstanders 100+lbs) the gear definitely has changed.

nooshinjohn · January 2010

Serendipity wrote: »

I can see where you are coming from, but it's the quality of the gear that has changed. Whether it was a tape deck (remember the Nakamichi ones from the 80's), LaserDisc player (some of them were 30+lbs) or even speakers (huge floorstanders 100+lbs) the gear definitely has changed.

And the quality of that gear has, for the most part, gone downhill with it. Most gear made today are meant to be tossed in less than 5 years, or as soon as the latest stuff hits the shelves. It has been suggested that all audio/video formats will be effectively dead within the next ten years in favor of subscriber driven streaming feeds from cable/satellite sources and stored on computers/dvr type devices for later retrieval. Blockbuster has already begun to enter into provider agreements and will be closing a large number of stores this year for that reason. With exception to the VERy high-end, most solid MID-FI companies will either be internet store fronts or gone by the end of the decade. Best Buy will be gone as well... The same can be said of the middle class.

fatchowmein · January 2010

markmarc wrote: »

Blaming the iPod is misguided at best.

In Europe home stereo sales haven't dropped like the have here in the States. Our culture is all about multi-tasking, speed, and visual satisfaction. We are stuck in the insanity that doing the most items each day will make us happy. Even our days off are crammed with doing this our that on a list. Those of us in the audio hobby still do this to a lesser extent.

We sit and watch TV, all the while looking at our cell phone every few minutes, or, with our laptop in front of us. Our fear of disconnecting ourselves from the leash of instant information connection is only making ourselves socially more like corn in a popper.

We are becoming more and more dependent on visual stimulation to keep us focused on a stream of information. Unless we are watching something on our plasma TV's or driving, we don't stay on a single task for any long period of time.

When I tell my students of all the times friends and I would sit and listen to albums while passing around the jacket and liner notes, they are shocked. "You mean you weren't doing anything else"? they ask. Our lives have become a drive-thru of convience and speed in place of full experiences.

True and your post brings up an interesting behavioral point. The iPod was merely an ends to a means. Back in late 90's and early 2000's, we were sitting in front of the pc listening to mp3's, searching for music on napster, talking on instant messenger (AIM or MSN Messenger), all the while the TV was on in the background. Dialup was still the major onramp to the WWW for most of us so surfing and looking for stuff on Napster was a bit too slow but we sure were multi-tasking. I guess the younger generation took what we did to the nth degree as technology got bigger, badder, and faster.

I recall a lot of talk in the 90's about interactive multimedia entertainment on the PC. Looks like that genie is out of the PC and into our daily lives whether that be in the living room, driving, or just walking around the mall.

Good insight Mark.

Serendipity · January 2010

nooshinjohn wrote: »

And the quality of that gear has, for the most part, gone downhill with it. Most gear made today are meant to be tossed in less than 5 years, or as soon as the latest stuff hits the shelves.

+1

With the lower quality of gear, stuff is being thrown away at a rapid rate and more resources are being used to produce the new products. Which IMO is not the way to go with regards to sustainability.

sucks2beme · January 2010

There was always low end stuff. The real killer was surround sound.
A lot of cheap speakers rather than two good ones. Movies online,
movies in the mail, movies on demand. TIVO. Internet, internet ****.
Online sales. My two sons multitask their entertainment. They go online
for what they buy. Cheaper Chinese stuff came along at a low price online.
The economy crashed at the end of the 90's and has dived even lower.
Add it up, it spells trouble for high end.

What happened?

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