Tube Equivalents > 6J1 > 6AK5 ?

heiney9

They will break in if they are true NOS tubes. 30-50 hours and then slightly after that until they finally settle in

concealer404

Yeah, i've got about 12 hours on this set now. I ended up with almost 30 hours on the other set, and i could tell that they just weren't going to do it for me.

I think the KH23s might settle down a bit more, but i don't think they're going to be exactly what i'm looking for, either.

This is frustrating.

heiney9

Sorry, all the gobbledygook of numbers and letters in an earlier post has nothing to do with telling one where the tubes were manufactured. The end user can have any kind of sequence printed on the tubes for their own use and identification/part number whatever. I doubt there is going to be too much variation as the CV4010 was not a hugely popular tube comparatively and they had a fairly short production run comparatively to other more popular audio tubes. AFAICT, the CV4010 was probably produced in the 70's thru the early 80's.

The only codes that really tell you anything are the manufacture/production codes. I have no idea what a "KH23" is

The more research I do it seems the earlier example I posted about (with the codes) was most likely made in 1981 not 1971.

http://www.hifitubes.nl/catalog/mullard-cv4010-p-415.html

and 1988

http://www.hifitubes.nl/catalog/siemens-6ak5w-p-233.html?osCsid=e917391faac7c0b027763734a424d545

concealer404

Ah ok...

So what i'm hearing is more of a coincidence than anything, then.

heiney9

No, certainly two tubes manufactured at the same place *around* the same time can sound different. I just don;t know much about the CV4010 and its equivalents and how tight the tolerances needed to be when used in the way intended, which was not in the signal path of an audio device.

There's lots of bits and pieces on google that you can cull and get a bigger picture of what the tube was original produced to be used in.

concealer404

heiney9 wrote: »

No, certainly two tubes manufactured at the same place *around* the same time can sound different. I just don;t know much about the CV4010 and its equivalents and how tight the tolerances needed to be when used in the way intended, which was not in the signal path of an audio device.

There's lots of bits and pieces on google that you can cull and get a bigger picture of what the tube was original produced to be used in.

Ah ok, that makes sense. I'll do more digging on the tube itself and see what that shows me when i have the time. I'm back at work again. Tubes are still burning in at home though! They'll be around 20 hours when i get there, so i'm excited to see if the highs have calmed down any.

kcoc321

It did sound like the seller would be willing to see if he could "match up" a set. I told him I would probally be getting another 'set'. Just have to see which ones are better.

H9: IS there any benefit to having the same manufacture # (like the KH23#)
Or should I tell him I am looking for 5 with the handwritten "R###" or "B###" as those would be the Mullard or Blackburns??

Interesting, those you posted from Hifi have the same "KQD.." label as the $20/pr on eBay. About the same $$.

At least if we get enough ppl rolling the 6J1/CV4010/ M8100, we will at least find the best ones (M8100's ?) and also find some decent deals on them.

kcoc321

Just got my CV4010's from Ben Thanks bud
Gunna pop them in tonight

I also won a set of these for a whopping $6.54, including shipping ...whoo hooo...

Pack of 5 Tung-Sol 6AK5-EF95-5654 Little Dot Amp Tubes
MATCHED NOS PAIRS ORIGINAL D GETTER SAME DATE CODE

DOIN some tube swappin this weekend....
why the heck does "that game" have to be THIS weekend....crapolla.... (not really)

concealer404

Send me a pair of those!

kcoc321

concealer404 wrote: »

Send me a pair of those!

Check your PM

kcoc321

I also found a old tube repair guy who is retiring and he has a bunch of NOS tubes he is selling. I asked him about 6AK5's and he has:

On the 6AK5's, I have 40 RCA nos, 26 GE nos, 5 sylvania nos, 5 westinghouse nos.

Any recommendations from the guru's?
He wants $2.75 ea (plus shipping) for the NOS NIB. $1.50 for used tested good ones. He also says he guarantees them.

Any special codes ect I should ask for?

kcoc321

Got some NOS Tung-Sol 6AK5-7's today. REALLY New Old Stock as in vintage tube boxes and they even came with the outer box for the five.

They are the 6AK5-7's. In faint, almost etched printing they say "TUNG-SOL" and "made in USA" with the "6AK5" and "322HR7" on all the tubes. They also have a separate printing of "6AK5" with a "7" below it, sometimes printed over the original printings. The bottom of all the tubes have a letter and number "4" cast in the glass, like "J4", "X4", "B4", "S4", "A4" all being different.

I have not tried them, yet. I wish I had a tube tester....anyone in Seattle area have one??

pics:
One pair of the tubes:

Box of Five

kcoc321

Ok, Ok...I get it...LOL

Wow...I just (well 5 hours ago...hehe) rolled a pair of these Tung-sol's into my tube buffer, and immediately I 'got' what you guys have been saying about the sound stage 'opening up'....it is as if the sounds got fuller...somehow....
I have been playing some of my favorite CD's....sometimes over and over again...

my name is KC and I am a 'tuba-alcoholic'

MORE..I want more...
Are the M8100's MORE???????

heiney9

kcoc321 wrote: »

Ok, Ok...I get it...LOL

Wow...I just (well 5 hours ago...hehe) rolled a pair of these Tung-sol's into my tube buffer, and immediately I 'got' what you guys have been saying about the sound stage 'opening up'....it is as if the sounds got fuller...somehow....
I have been playing some of my favorite CD's....sometimes over and over again...

my name is KC and I am a 'tuba-alcoholic'

MORE..I want more...
Are the M8100's MORE???????

Welcome to the dark side of those little glowing glass tubes.

H9

concealer404

Send me a pair!!!! So they're better than the CV4010s i gather? Are they not quite as hot on the highs by chance?

kcoc321

concealer404 wrote: »

>>>>:D So they're better than the CV4010s i gather? Are they not quite as hot on the highs by chance?

I haven't rolled the CV4010's yet. I have to burn these in and then I'll try the CV4010.....I'll burn these in for a couple of days and then put in the CV4010 for a comparison.

I would say they are "fuller" on the highs than the 6J1's. There is more presence to the highs, if that makes any sense. Right now, I would say they are better at mellow music than rock-n-roll. The guitar rip on David Gilmore, track #2, 3:30 (one of my "tests" as it sounds horrid on the VS-25's 'naked') is alittle better, but does not carry the presence as Cowboy Junkie's or Lorenna McKenna....The bass is about the same, right now, but they only have a few hours on them. I swapped the tubes around, because it looked like one was glowing 'hotter' than the other. I tried them all, and it seems I got 2 'hotter' ones, 2 'cooler' ones and a 'high-hot' one, just based on how much the top filament glows. I put the two 'hotter' ones in, right now. I need to find someplace around here that can test & 'tube match' for me...

I also emailed my seller to see if they have anymore, cuz they are definitely 'old stock'... but I have not heard back...

I did find these on eBay, but the 'guts' look slightly different. Mine have two of the 'pronged rings', top and bottom of the center block (getter?) while these have one 'pronged ring'. So I don't know if they are different....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250579685717&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


And these: (but they don't have any pictures of the actual tubes)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370241322387&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

kcoc321

I heard back from the seller I got my Tung-sol from. She said "I have alot of rca silver,black,and grey plate from 50's-70's. I will need to look around for more Tung-sol's."

Anyone know if the Vintage RCA's any good? Which are better?

heiney9

kcoc321 wrote: »

I heard back from the seller I got my Tung-sol from. She said "I have alot of rca silver,black,and grey plate from 50's-70's. I will need to look around for more Tung-sol's."

Anyone know if the Vintage RCA's any good? Which are better?

In just about any circle vintage RCA's are excellent to outstanding. As far as an RCA 6AK5, I have no idea since it's not a real popular tube. Try it and find out and let us know.

Have you checked www.headfi.org or www.tubesasylum.com

They have all kinds of tube comparisons. It seems to me the more popular place the 6AK5 is used is in headphone amps so I'm sure there have been lots of discussion at www.headfi.org

Also, if you haven't searched your model buffer as well as the Grant Fidelity buffer do that because you'll run across some info I'm sure.

H9

concealer404

He's got the Grant Fidelity, they've got a nice thread on rolling tubes in it. I've got the "cheaper, crappier tolerances, Chi-Fi" unit.

I think i'm liking the CV4010s more and more... i may need to work on my room treatments some more to tame the highs.

kcoc321

heiney9 wrote: »

In just about any circle vintage RCA's are excellent to outstanding. As far as an RCA 6AK5, I have no idea since it's not a real popular tube. Try it and find out and let us know.

Have you checked www.headfi.org or www.tubesasylum.com

They have all kinds of tube comparisons. It seems to me the more popular place the 6AK5 is used is in headphone amps so I'm sure there have been lots of discussion at www.headfi.org

Also, if you haven't searched your model buffer as well as the Grant Fidelity buffer do that because you'll run across some info I'm sure.

H9

Thanks for the links, I research them.
I have researched the GF info for the GF B-283, which is what I have. I actually compiled the compatibility list in Post #1 from their tube rolling article. But Ian (grant) really likes the 6J1's....

OF the three RCA vintage tubes, (silver,black,and grey plate) is any one of them "best"?

I also have found a retired tube guy in Idaho that has some RCA's, for $2.75ea NOS, Would the vintage GE nos, Sylvania nos, Westinghouse nos be better?

And yes, the 6AK5's are probably seen more in tube headphobe pre's.

kcoc321

concealer404 wrote: »

..I think i'm liking the CV4010s more and more... i may need to work on my room treatments some more to tame the highs.

Kewl
I had a chance to listen some more yesterday, and the mid/ bottoms on the TS's are starting to open up. They only have 30 hours or so on them.

Although it is somewhat relative to what CD I am listening to. Some I like better, some CD dont sound as good as others.

kcoc321

Searched head-fi.com and found these:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/fs-littledot-tubes-6ak5-ef95-ef91-5654-a-468041/

the $$ is per tube, plus shipping

4 Mullard M8083/EF91 Blue Glass $16 [IDK if these are compatible, not on my list]
3 Tung-Sol 6AK5 Side Getter $17
8 Tung-Sol 6AK5W Rectangular Getter $17 [Like mine?]
6 Raytheon 6AK5 1943/44 $16
4 Hytron 6AK6W $14 [ westinghouse??]
4 National Union 6AK5 Dec 1944 $14
5 International 403B GoldPins $14 [in compatibility list, see post #1 attachment]
8 Sylvania 6AK5WB very nice $10
4 RCA 6AK5 $8
4 MWT W77 Huge Soundstage $16 [compatible??]
2 Telefunkin 6AM6 $25 [IDK if these are compatible, not on my list]
2 Sylvania 408a Gold Pin GB $26 [IDK if these are compatible, not on my list]
6 6J1P-EV Russian Groove Tubes $6 [more or less the same as the 6J1's that came stock ??]

Another seller there, maybe more reasonable pricing (his pricing is per pair + shipping)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f44/wts-tubes-little-dot-ef2-5654-6ak5-etc-435190/

heiney9

Looks like a diverse list.

From my personal experience I don;t know what all the hype surrounding Mullard tubes is. I can take 'em or leave 'em. I have several from many different production plants and while they are very good, they aren't my favorite tube.

I love the early Valvo's made in Hamburg
I love Telefunkens
I really, really like the early RCA black plates
I really, really like the very early GE 5 Star black plates w/square getter.

Of course YMMV based on tube type and application, etc, etc.

Russian signal tubes aren't too bad, but the ones I've heard are a far cry from anything NOS and I have some Russian tubes from the very early 70's and they are a little above average.

Just keep rolling and experimenting until you find what you like. Also it takes about 50-75 hrs for a tube to break in and never evaluate until you have had the tubes powered up for atleast 30min. The sound changes dramatically from first power up to 30minutes plus.

H9

kcoc321

heiney9 wrote: »

Looks like a diverse list....
I really, really like the early RCA black plates
I really, really like the very early GE 5 Star black plates w/square getter.
Of course YMMV based on tube type and application, etc, etc.
H9

Good to know...I think I will see if Idaho man has his with the black plate RCA's and GE 5 stars. IF I could get those for $2.75/ea, that would be a good deal

The eBay gal also had some black plate RCA's. I need to see how much she wants for them.

Are those ^^ Head-fi prices reasonable?

The bottom linked guy has some of those
GE 5 Stars #6: $20 (HIS Personally recommended)
RCA COMMAND 5654 #3: $20 (Rare) ?????????
RCA 6AK5/EF95 black glass black plate #2: $10
RCA 6AK5/EF95 black plate #3: $10
RCA 5654 black plate #2: $10

kcoc321

Found these on eBay a while ago, the seller just posted pictures of the actual tubes and I am wondering
1) if they are the same as the Tung-sol's I have?
2) What they are worth? He has a BIN price of $120 for 6 tubes, but also has a "Make an Offer" option posted. The internal structures look the same. Mine have the same writing, all be it alittle more worn/ transparent (not shown in my pic) His are in generic white boxes, mine came if a more 'retail' box.

Any thoughts?

eBay tubes:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370241322387&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123



my tubes:

zingo

Those Tung-sols are sounding good in my amp KC, but not $120 for 6 good.

heiney9

Dates, codes, lettering, plates, getter can all identify like tubes. White boxes could simply mean they were part of a bulk pack, etc.

Seems like a lot of money to me, for a lesser known tube. But they are popular in buffers, headphone amps, etc.............perhaps that's why the seller thinks he can get his asking price.

If it were me I'd let them go and wait for him to re-list at a more reasonable price, but I'm cheap and really scour for bargains. I assume his are true NOS, never been used? Maybe then they are worth it. I don;t know enough about those tubes to tell you what a reasonable price is.

H9

kcoc321

zingo wrote: »

Those Tung-sols are sounding good in my amp KC, but not $120 for 6 good.

I am glad you like them. I agree Jake, that's why I was asking about values.
I was thinking more like offering him $10/pair which would be $30. The Max I would think, would be $45 for the set of 6. I would only get them if you wanted a pair, and maybe Ben-Con404, or someone else, wanted a set. It would cost an extra $5 to ship the pair to Ben.

heiney9 wrote: »

Dates, codes, lettering, plates, getter can all identify like tubes. White boxes could simply mean they were part of a bulk pack, etc.

Seems like a lot of money to me, for a lesser known tube. But they are popular in buffers, headphone amps, etc.............perhaps that's why the seller thinks he can get his asking price.

If it were me I'd let them go and wait for him to re-list at a more reasonable price, but I'm cheap and really scour for bargains. I assume his are true NOS, never been used? Maybe then they are worth it. I don't know enough about those tubes to tell you what a reasonable price is.

H9

Thank you Heiney we'll see if we can get him to come down.

concealer404

You rang? Hopping on gmail now KC.

kcoc321

I had to go out right after I posted, but I will around most of the nite
KC