Judge this preamp

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Comments

  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2010
    esowden wrote: »
    ....Build is mediocre at best.

    Who told you that nonsense? Ever seen the internals of ASL products or Dussun?

    This sure doesn't look mediocre to me....
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited January 2010
    Pycroft wrote: »
    Ricardo...

    Found this online: http://www.xshn.com/en/display.asp?id=24

    Not sure if it's an 'official' website, but it's better than looking on ebay or something for specs. To be honest, I don't know what any of them mean :) Any further comments based on this?

    Thanks,

    James

    Still shows 50K ohm as output impedance. That can't be.

    Just give it a try. If you don't like how it sounds, send it back
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
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    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited January 2010
    Ricardo wrote: »
    Still shows 50K ohm as output impedance. That can't be.

    Just give it a try. If you don't like how it sounds, send it back

    It could be Ric as it may have been made to be used in tandem with their own power amp. I know Spectral designs their gear as a package so the pre and amp impedance match up.
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  • Pycroft
    Pycroft Posts: 1,960
    edited January 2010
    If that's true...does that mean it may not be compatible iwth my amp? (See sig). I'm waiting to hear back from the owner about the manual and what it says.

    James
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
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  • esowden
    esowden Posts: 55
    edited January 2010
    organ wrote: »
    Who told you that nonsense? Ever seen the internals of ASL products or Dussun?

    This sure doesn't look mediocre to me....

    Easy there big guy...

    I'm not familiar with ASL or Dussun so I can't comment on their build quality. I am familliar with the pre-amp mentioned by the OP along with a handful of others sold on eBay by unknown "companies" and stand by my comment.
    Den
    Parasound 2100
    Parasound 2125
    Denon DCM-390
    LG BD390V
    Martin Logan Preface(x2)
    Denon AH-D2000

    Bedroom
    Adcom GTP-350
    Parasound HCA-800II
    Panasonic DVD-S54
    Denon AH-2000
    Polk S4(x4)

    ಠ_ಠ
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2010
    Yes, they're Chinese.
    Polk's Monitor, RT line, Klipsch Synergy, Reference and NAD are made in China.
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  • esowden
    esowden Posts: 55
    edited January 2010
    organ wrote: »
    Yes, they're Chinese.
    Polk's Monitor, RT line, Klipsch Synergy, Reference and NAD are made in China.

    ...along with a lot of other brand names.

    I, in no way, meant that because it is made in China, it is an inferior product. I just meant to point out that it was made in China. The quotation marks before and after the word companies were meant to imply that they were unknowns (maybe legitimate, maybe not) and their product didn't measure up to the quality most would expect for that amount of money.

    I apologize if I've offended you. I assure you - it was not my intention.
    Den
    Parasound 2100
    Parasound 2125
    Denon DCM-390
    LG BD390V
    Martin Logan Preface(x2)
    Denon AH-D2000

    Bedroom
    Adcom GTP-350
    Parasound HCA-800II
    Panasonic DVD-S54
    Denon AH-2000
    Polk S4(x4)

    ಠ_ಠ
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2010
    My bad. I thought you were talking about all Chinese gear. Sorry.
    Yeah, you're right. The ones with substandard products are usually the unknown brands that don't get distributed in North America.
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  • Pycroft
    Pycroft Posts: 1,960
    edited January 2010
    Would the Xiang Sheng fall into the category of 'unknown brands that don't get distributed in North America'?
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited January 2010
    Pycroft wrote: »
    If that's true...does that mean it may not be compatible iwth my amp? (See sig). I'm waiting to hear back from the owner about the manual and what it says.

    James

    I'm not sure. The input impedance on my hybrid integrated amp is very high. All the front ends that I use, CDP, Turntable/phono pre, & SACD player have an impedance mismatch with the integrated so I just have to raise the volume higher to get to the volume level I like to listen. I am not sure however if this would be true with an impedance mismatch between pre and amp. I would imagine it to be the same but I'll let someone with more experience with this type of situation chime in.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2010
    Pycroft wrote: »
    Would the Xiang Sheng fall into the category of 'unknown brands that don't get distributed in North America'?

    That's the thing I'm not sure about. That's why on my first post on this thread I mentioned that it looks a lot like Sheng Ya. Because depending where the gear are being sold, they can go under different names. It's usually the internal pics and/or chassis that give them away.

    You could try e-mailing the seller and ask them if that same pre is being made under a different name, or ask about Xiang Sheng's reputation in the Asian Market. It's also hard to say because it usually takes years after the company started up before they get NA distributors. It usually starts with internet sales. That's what happened to ASL and Original. Original has been around for over 10 years but only got their NA distributor about 3-4 years ago.

    I checked out their website and it looks pretty good. It's not an original design according to them. It's an improved Japanese design.
    The internals look pretty good with Wima caps being used.

    Like other's have said, worth a try since the seller is willing to take it back if you're not happy.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited January 2010
    Pycroft wrote: »
    Would the Xiang Sheng fall into the category of 'unknown brands that don't get distributed in North America'?

    Buy the damn thing already! You've gotten a lot of discussion here. Now it's up to you to decide. If you can't afford to take the chance then move on to something else. :)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,068
    edited January 2010
    I've been wondering the same thing about this brand for a couple of months since getting a tube power amp. I saw one on Audiogon but couldn't find any other information about it. I kept thinking 'you get what you pay for' and decided to save my $$ and wait for a brand with a track record. If you've got the $$s to spare, it seems like a low risk trial.
    ____________________________________________________________

    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    I'm not sure. The input impedance on my hybrid integrated amp is very high. All the front ends that I use, CDP, Turntable/phono pre, & SACD player have an impedance mismatch with the integrated so I just have to raise the volume higher to get to the volume level I like to listen. I am not sure however if this would be true with an impedance mismatch between pre and amp. I would imagine it to be the same but I'll let someone with more experience with this type of situation chime in.

    That's (I believe) the issue I brought up with the comparison between the Luxman M-117 and the Aragon 8008bb amps. I use the same everything except the amp. The Aragon should be much more powerful than the Luxman, but due to their impedances (i.e. The Luxman is 37 Kohms and the Aragon is 22Kohms) I have to raise the volume knob on my pre-amp about a 1/4 turn higher to get the same volume output on the Aragon as I do with the Luxman. Even though the Aragon should be fundamentally more powerful. That's why I was wondering if there is a way of increasing the impedance of the Aragon amp.


    If you have a pre-amp with an output impedance of 50 Kohms and an amp (like my Aragon 8008bb) with an impedance of 22 Kohms, you will not be able to get enough power output to really get a loud volume. That's an extreme impedance mismatch.

    Also, on the subject of Chinese quality, I have certainly not used all Chinese made stuff (of course). But, I will say the Chinese made stuff I have used is not built to a quality I would spend money on again. that's not to mention Chinese made (non-audio/video) stuff such as tires (that blow out and cause people to crash) and imported toys with lead filled paint for kids to play with, shall I go on? Probably not a popular opinion, but I have been paying attention to Chinese made stuff for many many years now and I (for one) know that a majority of it is poorly made.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited January 2010
    Here we go again with the Aragon.............still can't let it go ;):p:D. If you want stuff to match 1000% perfectly to your warped standard (volume position in the exact same spot) then buy all the same brand gear or and integrated or a receiver. I'd hate to see you with 3 different receivers all with digital volume readouts and then wondering why they all have different readings for the same volume ;).

    And again with the Chinese gear bashing. I am skeptical of ALL lower priced gear. There is far more Chinese gear that is very good to excellent than there is Chinese gear that is total crap. Some of it is, no doubt.

    I have 3 Dared pieces and at retail they aren't cheap, they are built very well, and they use top grade parts. Nichicon, Dale, Allen Brady, Auricaps, etc.......they sound fantastic. Looking at the pics of this pre-amp it looks like it's assembled well, the parts don;t look excellent, but as decent as any $200-400 piece I've seen from any manufacturer.

    The rub comes from having to buy direct from China rather than a stateside distributor and all the hassle and cost it could cost if you had an issue. That thing, from the looks, is built no worse than a $499 receiver you can get at BB which is assembled in China/Taiwan, etc.

    In many cases you do get what you pay for whether it's a Chinese sourced unit or comes from a company on these shores while still made/assembled in China.

    The other rub is there are some boutique brands that charge very high prices (because they are boutique brands) for exactly the same thing you can buy direct from China.

    Ever looked at a Sophia Baby integrated and a Meng EL34 integrated? They look IDENTICAL, because they are the exact same unit. The Sophia is $599 and the Meng is $249. All the internals are identical unless you pay extra for the Sophia and they will upgrade some of the caps/resistors, etc........

    To the OP, if you don;t want to take your chances for something that is significantly less expensive than other alternatives then save your money and spend 2-3 times the price for a used piece that will give you piece of mind. It may well not be any better than this piece your looking at, but because it has a recognizable name and stateside support it might make you feel better.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2010
    Two thumbs up, Heiney. Great post. I've gone through so many excellent tube equipments from ASL and the quality is always top notch.
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2010
    To H9, organ and all who think I am bashing Chinese made gear. That is not the case. I am not trying to single out Chinese made stuff and say "it's crap". I am however trying to give my experience with (either directly or indirectly) Chinese made items. There is bad gear made throughout the world. Most of it just seems to come from China (in my opinion, of course). I am NOT trying to say that Organ's gear is "crap", I have never used ASL equipment, nor seen/heard it first hand. I would never say it's not worth the money you paid for it, until I had seen/heard it first hand. And then, I may not say that at all.

    I was trying to give the original poster my view of Chinese made gear, which is that on everage it is not made well. That's all. It's nothing personal against the Chinese people, the gear they make, or the people that use it. I didn't mean to offend anyone by stating my point of view, but it is my point of view that I can give, not anyone elses.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited January 2010
    I get where you're coming from Greg, maybe you could be more specific about your experiences. No doubt there are some real stinkers from China. Some of it comes down to uninspiring circuits......even if the workmanship passes sometimes the tube circuit they utilize is just not very good.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2010
    Yeah, I understand. It's all good. No offence taken. We were just trying to point out that there are gems out there. You should give some of them a listen, you might be fairly surprised. I haven't tried the Dared stuff that Heiney used but have heard great things about them and hope to try some in the future.
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  • Pycroft
    Pycroft Posts: 1,960
    edited January 2010
    FYI, I decided to purchase the unit. I paid 240 dollars for it, plus shipping. The seller says he has about 375 into it with the new tubes he's sending as well. I paid already, and will hopefully receive it mid next week. I'll keep everyone updated.

    James
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2010
    Cool stuff. Let us know how it goes. Is this your first tube gear?
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  • Pycroft
    Pycroft Posts: 1,960
    edited January 2010
    Yes sir, it is. Not even sure what to expect cause I've never heard any tube gear :)
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,081
    edited February 2010
    How does this Pre sound Pycroft? Do you like it?
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  • Pycroft
    Pycroft Posts: 1,960
    edited February 2010
    Hi...To be honest...I havne't given it a 'critical' listening. My gear is moved because of a foul up...was supposed to get carpet delivered adn installed, they ordered the wrong type, so My gear is out of the room waiting for it to get installed. From what I have heard, it is a step up from the TEchnics preamp I was using. It seemed clearer, and more definite. I was told it was a great preamp for tube rolling because it also has tone controls, and you could play a lot with the sound. I haven't liked the sound when playing with the treble or bass controls, but I only have one type of tubes in there. Probably mroe fun to someone with more experience and tubes laying around. So far, I like it though. I will post again whe nI get a better chance to listen.

    James
    2 Channel/HT:
    Sony SS-M9 P's (ES version)
    Sony SS-M1CN Center Channel
    Polk RT800 Surround Speakers
    Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono Amplifiers
    TAD 150 Signature Tube Preamp
    Harman Kardon HK354
    Sony SACD Player
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited February 2010
    Cool. Didn't know you already got it. Glad to hear it sounds better than your T. Looking forward to reading your impressions when you've got the room up and running again.
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  • bikerboy
    bikerboy Posts: 1,211
    edited February 2010
    This preamp has been charged with being made on this planet and emitting electrons. "Guilty as charged" Burn him!

    I'm a little late, but it looks good. I have a couple of chinese tube burners. The TAD-150 preamp sounds good to me. And it has 2 holes!

    The Jolida is waiting for new tubes. On the top is the Voice of Music 15 watt/ch integrated amp pushing the sda-2.3 for now. Good ol american iron. Sounds ok.
    Main system: Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 w/ Pioneer 42" plazma-> Polk LSiM 703 w/Tivo, Marantz tuner, BRPTT: Nothingham Spacedeck-> Pioneer PL L1000 linear arm-> Soundsmith DL 103R-> SUT->Bottlehead ErosDigital: I3 PC w/ Jriver playing flac -> Sonore Ultrarendu -> Twisted Pair Audio ESS 9028 w/ Mercury IVY Vinyl rips: ESI Juli@24/192-> i3 PC server
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited February 2010
    bikerboy wrote: »
    This preamp has been charged with being made on this planet and emitting electrons. "Guilty as charged" Burn him!

    I'm a little late, but it looks good. I have a couple of chinese tube burners. The TAD-150 preamp sounds good to me. And it has 2 holes!

    The Jolida is waiting for new tubes. On the top is the Voice of Music 15 watt/ch integrated amp pushing the sda-2.3 for now. Good ol american iron. Sounds ok.

    That's cool looking rack with some really nice looking gear. Enjoy!
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2010
    I can't stand gear that has that ridiculous tube window....it's cheesy. They probably even light it up with a colored LED to boot. It's a dime a dozen pre-amp from China, nothing more. If you can get it cheap, buy it but you won't keep it....as a prediction.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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